Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Thank you for taking the time to find that post to show me. I understand where you're coming from now. Too many broken promises and an initial skepticism about their business in the first place.
Do you happen to own a Samsung 4k TV? I'd love to see pictures of it somewhere other than a best buy (just because it's inconsistent with what I've seen so I'd like to know why). Seeing it on a TV in someone's home would help me understand that it's consistently distributed across Samsung's platform, in direct contradiction to Samsung's compatibility site, which I know has been slow to update.
This is an amazing response, Niko! I'm glad our discussions got to this level.
A lot of your answers bring up additional questions for me. Over this weekend, I'll put together some of them and send them over to IR.
Here's the first 13 minutes of it from a cell phone video in the crowd Right around 2:34 is when those logos show up. There was a 1 hour+ unedited video that was I think the live, streaming recording, I'll try to find it later.
People saying the CES images were doctored as posting images from 2 different days and taking them out of context.
The UF logo was on the screen as seen in the video with Samsung's COO, but was not on the screen during the UHD alliance meeting. While we can't verify if NTEK was actually at the meeting, we know they're not a member of the UHD Alliance, but then again, a lot of companies in the space are not. It was created just a few weeks ago to set standards. Some of the companies in it are content creators (Disney, Fox, Warner Bros., Netflix, and DirecTV), some are content displayers (Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, and Sharp) and then there's Dolby and Technicolor. I'm sure the alliance with grow in the weeks/months to come to include NTEK just so NTEK can put the logo somewhere.
Vizio actually has UltraFlix. I went out and bought a 4k TV to do more research about whether or not I wanted to invest more (Gotta spend money to make money, right?). If you have a Vizio TV, you just need to get the firmware upgrade which came out a few weeks ago. I would assume, like Niko says, that Sony and Samsung are also on the way, if nothing else because it doesn't cost Sony/Samsung anything at this point really. I would, however, rather NTEK say they're still in beta phase with this app than say they're officially launched.
I wrote a little review (post# 271170) of it earlier this week, though most of the post was about actually getting customers to use UF.
Kitt, I read a lot of your posts, particularly the ones you respond to my posts with, and I have a lot of the same skepticism as you do about NTEK. There's a lot of good DD on this board from smart people going both ways. If you can cut through the crap that's out there, you might change your mind about "Ultrasux". I have a feeling you need more transparency from the company to consider an investment though, which, ya, I agree.
Below are some pictures I took when I first got it. Let me know if you want any additional ones. I have the Vizio P series 65" for reference.
Here it is on the "Latest" app screen (could only find it there and in the TV/Movie app selection.
Most of the content I watched first was the native 4k stuff and it looked amazing (I'm going to watch the 4k pre-processed stuff this afternoon/evening)
Same image as above but I used the HDR setting on my phone to try to capture more of the shadows and highlights (I think that's what it's for anyway). Whether or not it shows, I'll post it here anyway.
Pretty sure we discussed this yesterday and would love to continue the conversation by email as you suggested.
I'm talking about the customers that generate revenue. Again, we all recognize the potential market out there. I want to see execution in acquiring the customers that pay UF money.
I sent my concerns over to Daniel, the IR guy and asked him to forward it to the appropriate personnel. I've also reached out to Aaron, the VP of sales/marketing.
I raise these questions because I've always been a very middle ground person. I see those on this board who see the huge potential in this space, and those that have been underwhelmed with NTEK. Those that don't question a business's positives and negatives aren't creating a good environment for productive discussion, which would ultimately help NTEK succeed.
PS, I sent an email over to you Niko yesterday. I'd be happy to keep our conversations going.
MadHatter, you keep mentioning that this isn't a scam, which I agree with.
What are you seeing in your DD that's showing you that customers are adopting UltraFlix as their go to source for 4k streaming content?
My problem with NTEK is their execution of certain aspects in their business. Besides getting the app on TVs, where are you seeing that their execution is exceeding expectations in leading to significant customer revenue increases? Content is a huge feature and you mention dragon TV being big in Asia. Have you seen any reason to think customer adoption rates in Asia are significant?
I only know about SEO (search engine optimization) based on my experience trying to get my webpage out there, which was on a very localized scale.
NTEK can update their links on NTEK's page and UltraFlix's page. Putting information about UF's advantages on UF's page is a good start because its going to contain a lot of keywords that people are looking for. Consistently updating UF's page with new content (not movie content) is another factor in SEO. They can accomplish this by writing blog articles or adding more information on their website as movie titles expand. The amount of visits a site gets is also a factor as it tells search engines this is what people are looking for when they search X+Y words. It's a much deeper topic that I don't know enough about, but that's kinda what I've learned from the sales guy who sold me SEO services.
You'll notice there's a lot of articles about UltraFlix when you search UltraFlix. It's because the keyword is mentioned many times and it's new content on a site that's visited often.
My company pays $300/month for SEO and most of that goes to Google Adwords. SEO is a simple, passive way to get customers and why they haven't moved on this makes me question their abilities quite a bit. Yes, I have emailed them about this and other basic fixes they can do.
Arguing back and forth about details like this is useless. Paid for or not, the Twitter followers, even if they're ALL UF adopters are not a significant source of revenue. Twitter is an avenue for UF to get its name out there and it does show they're doing SOMETHING.
Whether they're paid for or not is not important, what they really need on Twitter/FB is followers that interact with the posts. Retweets, link clicks, etc.
I wasn't sure on this cause I've found FB to be more effective for my business, but check out this article.
Their twitter account is a start, and I'm guessing a lot of their followers are from following users and asking them to follow back. A great way to get more followers. And they actually put a description of themselves on there, yay!
Oh, gotcha. It's definitely not enough to only put in place what I'm saying, but it's a start where there is no real visible start currently. National advertising campaigns, depending on the avenue would probably be in the hundreds of thousands - millions. But starting somewhere then scaling would give me far more confidence with UF. I encourage you to write the company and request they put in some of these steps and some of your own suggestions. Every company wants feedback!
I think I understand what you're trying to say. You're saying they're focusing on their infrastructure of distribution first, correct? I'm not opposed to this business move, nor am I saying they haven't accomplished a great deal in doing so with CES and actually getting on the TVs.
Your arguments are great for reasons to invest in 4k TV manufacturers and demonstrating that the market for UF has amazing potential, which I completely agree with and is one of the reasons I invested. We're actually arguing two sides of the same coin.
However, why am I focusing on the customer part of the equation? Customers are the ones who generate revenue. If UF earned revenue for every TV it was installed on, perfect, but that's not the case.
Again, I'm not saying they should be focusing on customer acquisition completely. I'm saying they need to be working on the basics of it and testing out strategies so when they do decide to really make the marketing push, they know exactly what to do because customers generate revenue. According to IR, UltraFlix has officially launched and with all the potential TVs out there, UF has 839 likes on their facebook page. That's only 1 metric, yes, but I'd say it's an important one considering it's a great way to reach new and current customers for cheap.
The penny-wise/dollar foolish discussion:
Dollar foolish: dividends
Dollar foolish: continual delays with audited financials out when investors are demanding them. Why? Low investor confidence = dropping stock price = less money raised with each issued share = everyone owns a little less of the potential profits = not big picture.
Dollar smart: getting on all the TVs like they're doing
Dollar foolish: not working on the basics of customer acquisition when their budget is smaller
We could go on and on about this. However, my main, overall point as to why I'm concerned about a customer acquisition plan/testing is that it's a very very important factor to many investors. With no visibility for customer acquisition, there's no real way for investors to justify putting money in this company if they can't see revenue generating side of the coin for UF. We can all see the distribution potential, but when all the things we can see (facebook, google searches, their website, etc) show very little activity for customer acquisition, why would anyone have confidence enough to see they're trying to generate additional customers. Mind you, all my suggestions for them are LOW LOW cost. I think they could fix it all for under $1000 and in a week. And really, if they did work on stuff like this, I would invest far more in this company and I think a lot of other people would too.
Niko, you've done some awesome DD, it's much appreciated!
I agree, the 4k market is still in the early stages and there's some huge potential, especially since NTEK is focusing on purely 4k content. It's a niche market that does need to be filled and NTEK has the opportunity to do that. They have tons of talent on their staff/board with industry leaders and experts, but how committed are they if they can't execute basic customer acquisition and branding?
Unfortunately, it's not how consumers search. Also, one of my points is that even if you searched what you suggested, it finds a PR with no link to UltraFlix's website. From there you have 2 options, click the NTEK.com link in the PR, which doesn't have a link to UF's website, or google Ultraflix, where the first result is NTEK's website....
My other points is that UltraFlix's website should be on the front page of all these searches.
Again, these are EASY fixes to make by the company so I encourage you to contact them and ask them to make changes. I've done it.
If the picture messes up, here's the search counts
Here's the problem with your search: it's not how a consumer would do it. You already know about Ultraflix having that benefit. How would a consumer search for it to A) first find out about Ultraflix and B) Find out UltraFlix had that benefit?
The only article I can find is this one, which unfortunately, has UF listed as "coming soon". After reading the article, I would Google UltraFlix. What comes up? NTEK's website is the first result, which doesn't even have a link to the UltraFlix website.
I mean come on, even the biggest NTEK cheerleader should see this as a problem for customer acquisition. How can they fix it? They can easily fix a lot of this stuff for under $1000 and in under a week. I've emailed them about it and I encourage every investor to contact them about this as well. We all want to see the product succeed. I will say that these types of fixes aren't a magic pill, but it would show that they're semi-serious about customer acquisition because they are so basic and it would lend more confidence to anyone researching investments in NTEK.
My point here is that NTEK is making it too difficult for the consumer to find out more about them or to even find them.
I'm going to ignore the insult about UltraFlix in the appliance section.
Building awareness and UltraFlix on CES are awesome, I won't disagree with you there. It's the follow up that matters here. If I remember UltraFlix, I'm going to Google it only to find out it's annoying to find out more about them and just settle on Netflix. Also, the BB promotion with UltraFlix was, again, inconsistent across the country. It was in limited cities for a limited time.
Also, what search terms are you using to get the benefits of streaming at a lower bandwidth? All the ones I use aren't coming up with UltraFlix.
The BB I went to in the bay area just 60 miles from NTEK's HQ didn't know about UltraFlix. This is one of my criticisms of the company. Their utilization of customer acquisition channels is too inconsistent right now. I don't doubt that that some BB's know about UF, but from my personal experience and what others are saying is that some BBs don't know about it. The people dealing with 4k TV sales is one of the best word of mouth marketing tools out there.
NTEK has the potential to be a big winner, which is why I'm investing a small amount. Until I start to see the execution of basic customer acquisition plans, the potential remains limited as will my investment and I"m sure many other investors. Content and content partners are only half the equation here.
Examples where they're failing:
1) Inconsistencies with in-person marketing at retailers
2) SEO - Google UltraFlix then try to get to the UltraFlix website with the results. Google 4k content, 4k streaming, 4k movies, 4k streaming speeds, or anything else you think a consumer might try to research while deciding whether or not to buy a TV or even looking for things to watch when they have a TV. Also, when consumers are looking at the apps on their TV are they more likely to register on their TV or research the app online first to see what's going on? I'm leaning towards online first and that's even assuming they find the app (granted, it was pretty easy to find on Vizio, but there's no brand recognition).
3) UF's website has no mention of the benefits of their brand - streaming speeds and the size of their 4k library. Nor does the UF facebook page (also a great cust. acquisition channel) nor the app itself.
After weeks of reading these boards as an investor, I finally went out and purchased a 4K TV to see what UF was all about.
Once my Vizio updated to the latest firmware, it was pretty easy to find UF both under the "latest" apps and "Video/TV" apps. It's not a featured app, however.
From a business perspective, NTEK needs to quickly decide on a model for customer rentention. In this age, people are used to a monthly subscription with unlimited viewing or a combination of that and rentals/purchases for newer movies. Paying $9.99 to rent Fargo or Rocky is a little pricey for an older movie when that's basically a whole month of Netflix. What I would like to see is UF push something similar to Amazon's model - monthly subscription for unlimited viewing of most content and rental fees for newer content. I know they've mentioned it in a few interviews, hopefully that will come out soon along with additional content.
From a user perspective, I watched some of the nature documentaries and holy crap, they look amazing. I also watched some of the previews from MGM, you can tell they're upgraded and how much the quality differs from VUDU movies in HD seems negligible. Some of the documentaries had a little trouble buffering and some of the audio seemed a tad off in some previews. UF also needs to figure out a way to lure customers back under its current model. Once I explore this app, there's really no reason to come back to it because A) The content is fairly limited in genres, B) I have no idea if new content is coming or not because I have no idea that UF is a newish company still acquiring content, and C) One of the reasons Netflix is successful is their algorithm for suggesting new things to watch. If UF hasn't been "officially" launched as some are saying, NTEK needs to make that clear UF is in beta stages and develop brand loyalty with current users.
From a investor perspective, yes, UF's logo was up there on stage with Samsung's president. It matters because it does tell everyone UF is legitimate. However, NTEK is dropping the ball and making it NOT matter in regards to customer acquisition. How? Google UltraFlix, 4k streaming, 4k content, and 4k movies. You know what's not on the first page? Ultraflix's website. There's lots of articles with Ultraflix mentioned in them (many are outdated too) but with no URL in the article, you google UF. NTEK needs to upgrade their SEO immediately, update their UF website to really market their lower internet speed streaming capabilities/largest 4k library, and quickly update their NTEK website, (which is on the first page when you search UltraFlix, but you know what's not on NTEK's website? A link to UF's website). You might say people are going to find the app on TV. Sure, some will but I think a majority are going to find it through internet searches while researching things to watch in 4k. Content is going to be irrelevant if users can't find the UF website. I would really also like to see NTEK reaching out to the major 4k retailers to educate them. While I was at Best Buy, I heard a lot of customers asking about 4k content and the sales reps mentioned Sony's library, Netflix and Amazon. My rep worked in the Magnolia department and had never heard of Ultraflix (mind you, I'm in the bay area so it'd be easy for NTEK to make personal visits let alone phone calls).
Audited financials are important for credibility, but that's information from the past. As an investor, I'm mainly looking at UF's future. Customer acquisition and retention is the key for any business and at this point, I don't think NTEK has a great plan in place to do either as they're failing in some pretty basic acquisition areas (Yes, I have emailed the company about my concerns here). NTEK has neither an egg nor a chicken without a good plan for this. Once I start to see more in this arena, NTEK will become a better investment but until then, I will keep my investment small and I think a lot of other investors will too. I might miss out on a lot of an upward move, but the risk vs reward justifies that for me.
To be accurate, any increase in shares is dilution, restricted or not. They don't have to be sold on the open market for it to be considered dilution.
I'm of the opinion that this is a big deal. It's a licensing agreement so NTEK doesn't have to do any work to distribute their product when it's already on the TV. Plenty of companies made it big this way when their software got included with Windows. I can't remember if it was for sure Kevin O'Leary, but I think one of his software companies did this type of deal and made it big.
Name change out on twitter:
Where are you getting $40 million in sales from? If your answer is GolfLogix, I encourage you to step back and reanalysis your DD. I don't disagree that there's a lot of potential here but $40 million is a huge stretch at this point.