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I think I am about to get banned from iHub. I posted a comment on the CINT board that said that the stock was a pump and dump, and that the iHub board and volume surged just prior to the announcement of dilution by CINT. My comment was banned by the Admin, and the usual suspects on the board sent me threatening messages privately.
Thus, I think IHub admin is getting paid by certain companies to pump certain stocks. This makes iHub completely non-neutral as a forum. It is NOT a good place to learn about new companies from objective people.
There is no free discussion, therefore, and beware of what you read in all iHub forums. Its a shame, really.
Hey, I think I am about to get banned from iHub. I posted a comment on the CINT board that said that the stock was a pump and dump, and that the iHub board and volume surged just prior to the announcement of dilution by CINT. My comment was banned by the Admin, and the usual suspects on the board sent me threatening messages privately.
Thus, I think IHub admin is getting paid by certain companies to pump certain stocks. This makes iHub completely non-neutral as a forum. It is NOT a good place to learn about new companies from objective people.
There is no free discussion, therefore, and beware of what you read in all iHub forums. Its a shame, really.
Hey, I think I am about to get banned from iHub. I posted a comment on the CINT board that said that the stock was a pump and dump, and that the iHub board and volume surged just prior to the announcement of dilution by CINT. My comment was banned by the Admin, and the usual suspects on the board sent me threatening messages privately.
Thus, I think IHub admin is getting paid by certain companies to pump certain stocks. This makes iHub completely non-neutral as a forum. It is NOT a good place to learn about new companies from objective people.
There is no free discussion, therefore, and beware of what you read in all iHub forums. Its a shame, really.
http://www.taomining.com/gallery.html
frame 28.
That is an ingot. The picture was posted after we requested proof of current operations. The digital signature turned out to be tw years older... it was not new.
What happened to that chunk o gold?
Haha! Good luck Bingo.
Hey! I have a simlar board to discuss these issues.
I agree: the only realistic policy that cane be implemented by the government to 'fix' the economic situation is to institute massive inflation policies. Already, we are seeing the Fed rate approach zero, calls for massive 'tax cuts' and 'stimulous packages'.
All of this will destroy the value of hte dollar.
The great danger here is that the world may panic and sell all their dollars, then we are in deep trouble as the trade ties all fall apart.
The only thing keeping it all together, keeping world confidence in teh dollar, is the US military dominance of world power. The US is the most powerful country in history, and the US military is completely dominant. The world may hate it, but they know taht the world without US military dominance would be chaos and so they will not sell their dollars. It's a tributary system, though no one will want to say that publically. Thus, the dollar will continue to slowly deteriorate in value in order to continue growth, while gold will be actively suppressed so as to avoid comparisons, though it too will grow over time.
The best bet of all is to be in the stock market. That is the only way to benefit from the modern financial system.
huge sell volume last week.
not a good sign.
I agree with Joe Biden that Iraq should spin off Kurdistan to be its own country. Who cares what Turkey says, they want to be in the EU so they will have to suck it up. It will be good for them anyway, as all the Kurds that they hate so much will leave Turkey. The Kurds are our only cultural, and thus true, allies in the region, and we should treat them better. IMO
Goldman Issues Sobering Economic Forecast
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/economy/goldman-issues-sobering-economic-forecast/
Amid new evidence of a darkening economic picture, Goldman Sachs (GS: 77.78, -2.94, -3.64%) now forecasts that the economy will sharply contract this quarter and in the first quarter of 2009, resulting in the highest unemployment rate in more than two decades.
As a result of the worsening economic picture, Goldman predicts the Federal Open Market Committee will be forced to cut interest rates by another 0.5 percentage point to the lowest level since the 1950s.
“The main reason for these changes is the accumulation of evidence that U.S. domestic demand and production are dropping sharply,” Goldman said in its research note.
This week alone, there was a series of sobering economic reports released, including ones showing that the unemployment rate surged to a 14-year high, the nation has lost 1.2 million jobs in 2008, retailers posted their worst sales performance of the decade, U.S. auto sales plunged 15% from a month ago and the nation's manufacturing sector contracted to 26-year lows.
Goldman Sachs believes it will only get worse.
The firm now sees gross domestic product plunging 3.5% in the current quarter and 2% in the first quarter of 2009, up from its previous estimates of 2% and 1% respectively.
The steeper contraction in the economy will force employers to further slash jobs, bringing the nation’s unemployment rate from its current 6.5% level to 8.5% by the end of 2009, Goldman Sachs predicted. That would represent the highest level of unemployment since November 1983, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
If the unemployment rate soars beyond 8.5%, as Goldman expects it will in 2010 as the economy struggles to grow, the trough-to-peak increase in unemployment would establish a new record in the post World War II era, the firm said.
Goldman also lowered its expectations of a recovery as it now sees GDP rising just 1.5% in the fourth quarter of 2009. “The point of this small adjustment is to emphasize that we do not see a resumption of anything close to trend growth before 2010.”
To fight this gloomy economic picture the Fed will likely cut the federal funds rate to 0.5% at its next meeting on December 16, “if not before,” Goldman predicted.
Goldman’s bleak forecast takes into account a $200 billion fiscal stimulus plan being enacted early next year. Congressional leaders and President-Elect Obama have expressed support for such a plan, though talks are just beginning.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called for a two-stage stimulus package, beginning with a $60 billion-to-$100 billion effort this month, The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.
Obama is scheduled to detail his economic plans in a press conference later on Friday.
“We believe that the economy needs a large dose of federal spending and tax cuts, on the order of $300 billion to $500 billion,” Goldman wrote in the note. The firm also said prospects of a larger package have risen along with the worsening economic data and the election of Obama and more Democrats to Congress with a “clear mandate to fix the economy.”
Goldman Issues Sobering Economic Forecast
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/economy/goldman-issues-sobering-economic-forecast/
Amid new evidence of a darkening economic picture, Goldman Sachs (GS: 77.78, -2.94, -3.64%) now forecasts that the economy will sharply contract this quarter and in the first quarter of 2009, resulting in the highest unemployment rate in more than two decades.
As a result of the worsening economic picture, Goldman predicts the Federal Open Market Committee will be forced to cut interest rates by another 0.5 percentage point to the lowest level since the 1950s.
“The main reason for these changes is the accumulation of evidence that U.S. domestic demand and production are dropping sharply,” Goldman said in its research note.
This week alone, there was a series of sobering economic reports released, including ones showing that the unemployment rate surged to a 14-year high, the nation has lost 1.2 million jobs in 2008, retailers posted their worst sales performance of the decade, U.S. auto sales plunged 15% from a month ago and the nation's manufacturing sector contracted to 26-year lows.
Goldman Sachs believes it will only get worse.
The firm now sees gross domestic product plunging 3.5% in the current quarter and 2% in the first quarter of 2009, up from its previous estimates of 2% and 1% respectively.
The steeper contraction in the economy will force employers to further slash jobs, bringing the nation’s unemployment rate from its current 6.5% level to 8.5% by the end of 2009, Goldman Sachs predicted. That would represent the highest level of unemployment since November 1983, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
If the unemployment rate soars beyond 8.5%, as Goldman expects it will in 2010 as the economy struggles to grow, the trough-to-peak increase in unemployment would establish a new record in the post World War II era, the firm said.
Goldman also lowered its expectations of a recovery as it now sees GDP rising just 1.5% in the fourth quarter of 2009. “The point of this small adjustment is to emphasize that we do not see a resumption of anything close to trend growth before 2010.”
To fight this gloomy economic picture the Fed will likely cut the federal funds rate to 0.5% at its next meeting on December 16, “if not before,” Goldman predicted.
Goldman’s bleak forecast takes into account a $200 billion fiscal stimulus plan being enacted early next year. Congressional leaders and President-Elect Obama have expressed support for such a plan, though talks are just beginning.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called for a two-stage stimulus package, beginning with a $60 billion-to-$100 billion effort this month, The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.
Obama is scheduled to detail his economic plans in a press conference later on Friday.
“We believe that the economy needs a large dose of federal spending and tax cuts, on the order of $300 billion to $500 billion,” Goldman wrote in the note. The firm also said prospects of a larger package have risen along with the worsening economic data and the election of Obama and more Democrats to Congress with a “clear mandate to fix the economy.”
More Grim Retail Data Ahead Next Week
As in the week just ended, the worst news of the upcoming week is likely to come Friday -- when the Department of Commerce reports on retail sales for October, a broader report than the already-reported dismal chain store sales data.
The retail sales report comes on the heels of a series of negative economic indicators -- highlighted by Friday’s employment report -- all confirming the recession, interrupted only by the election.
The details of the jobs report were actually far worse than the headline indicators:
The 10th consecutive month-to-month decrease in payroll jobs for October, marking the first time jobs have fallen for nine straight months since 2001-02. The month-over-month decline in October was lower than the revised job losses for September, which represented the steepest month-to-month decline since the economy lost 292,000 jobs in November 2001.
The number of people (16 years of age and older) unemployed -- out of work and looking for a job -- increased 604,000 in October, the sixth consecutive monthly increase. During that stretch, the number of people unemployed is up 2,484,000 to 10,080,000, the highest unemployment number since September 1983.
The unemployment rate rose to its highest level since March 1994, up from 4.8% one year ago -- the steepest year-to-year increase in the unemployment rate since the 12 months ended December 2001.
The number of people with jobs declined for the sixth straight month for the first time since November 1990 to March 1991.
The civilian employment rate -- measuring the number of people with jobs as a percentage of the working age population -- fell to 61.8%, the lowest level since October 1993. This means 38.2% of all people aged 16 and over are not working. (The unemployment rate reflects only people who want to work.)
The unemployment rate increased even as jobs declined, highlighting the strains on households. The employment report actually covers two separate surveys: the “household” survey, which produces the unemployment rate, and the “establishment” survey, which yields the job count. The increase in the unemployment rate resulted from an increase in the number of people unemployed -- that is, out of work, available for work and seeking work.
With the number of jobs shrinking, it would be easy to be discouraged and not even bother to look for work, thus falling out of the work force and the unemployment rate calculation. That’s not the case though as households continue to struggle to meet expenses.
Those struggles will become readily apparent in the key data release in the upcoming week -- a week shortened by Tuesday’s Veterans Day observance, Ironically, the relief from lower gasoline prices could result in a reduction in retails sale, since gasoline sales have been a significant component of retail activity. Even with gasoline prices falling, the report is expected to show consumers are not using those savings for other purchases. As suggested by the Federal Reserve’s Senior Loan Officer Survey, consumers have limited opportunities to use credit to supplement income to prop up spending.
The loan officer survey -- for residential loans -- mirrored the weekly Mortgage Bankers Association survey in showing weaker demand for mortgage loans and all banks surveyed reported tighter standards for subprime loans. And the Fed survey suggested weaker spending in months to come as consumers struggle with weaker earnings with fewer borrowing opportunities to provide spending cash.
Even the opportunity to tap into home equity remains limited. According to Freddie Mac, cash-out mortgage refinance activity fell sharply during the third quarter from year-earlier levels. Over the first three quarters of 2008, Freddie Mac reported, the share of refinances with a cash-out component was 63%, the lowest level since 2004.
The other interesting, if not key, set of numbers in the upcoming week will be the often-overlooked JOLTS report -- Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey -- which will describe jobs flows such as hirings, separations and available jobs.
dude, they have been lying since the beginning. If anyone else shared your blind optimism, the stock would be worth at least 2 cents. It is not.
All is lost here, this thing was a money eater and the company is a fraud. All of the evidence points to this.
Bingo, What are you saying there, I did not understand it?
yup. what did it for me was when the picture of the gold ingot that was claimed to be new production was discovered to be over 2 years old. That is an outright lie, and indeed I think we can submit an investigation request based on that one. It's recorded on the web, so the evidence is there of the deliberate attempt to defraud us.
269 tie: An electoral college 'doomsday'?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/23/an-electoral-college-doomsday/
269 tie: An electoral college 'doomsday'?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/sep/23/an-electoral-college-doomsday/
U.S. Auto Sales Plunged in October
NOVEMBER 4, 2008
General Motors Reports 45% Decline as Tight Credit and Financial Turmoil Put Squeeze on Consumers
By KATE LINEBAUGH and MATTHEW DOLAN
The dismal U.S. auto market took a turn for the worse in October, with sales plunging by about a third as the financial crisis and tightening credit kept buyers away from showrooms.
View Full Image
Bloomberg News/Landov
Auto sales tumbled in October. Even compact cars have been squeezed by the credit crunch and weakening economy: GM said it sold 6,478 Chevy Cobalts (above) this month, down from 16,521 in September.
Auto makers sold 838,186 cars and light trucks last month, according to a tally by Autodata Corp. General Motors Corp. said it was the worst October in 25 years. When adjusted for increases in the U.S. population, last month was "the worst month in the post-World War II era," Michael DiGiovanni, GM's top sales analyst, said in a conference call. "This is clearly a severe, severe recession."
Auto executives warned that the market could deteriorate further, raising the question as to when the auto industry -- a key driver of the U.S. economy -- will hit bottom.
The modest decline in U.S. economic output in the third quarter "is not likely to be the worst we will see in this cycle," Ford Motor Co. economist Emily Kolinski Morris said in a company conference call.
A closely watched industry figure, the seasonally adjusted annualized selling rate, was 10.6 million vehicles, compared with 16 million a year earlier, according to Autodata.
Eyes on the Road
Repeat Performance: Buyers Return for Pickups, SUVsHave lower gas prices and good deals led you to consider buying a pickup or SUV? Cast your vote and join a discussion.
What's Moving: U.S. Auto SalesFord sales analyst George Pipas said the current sales trend could pull total 2008 sales below 14 million cars and trucks. At the beginning of the year many car companies had expected sales of roughly 15 million vehicles, already below the 16 million annual figure considered to be healthy.
Slumping auto sales are among the factors that have prompted GM to contemplate a merger with Chrysler LLC and spurred calls for federal help for the industry.
The National Auto Dealers Association last week urged President George W. Bush to offer tax credits to boost new-car purchases. The auto makers said Monday they need a policy response to help promote sales.
October's declines were led by GM, where sales fell 45% to 166,744 vehicles. The company was hurt when its financing arm, GMAC LLC, began offering loans only to customers with top credit scores. In many areas of the country, only a third or so of all customers would qualify for loans, Mr. DiGiovanni said.
Sales to fleet customers, like rental companies, made up a third of GM's total, meaning "retail" sales to individual consumers totaled only about 113,000 vehicles.
Other auto makers suffered major declines, too. Chrysler's sales fell 35% to 94,530 vehicles. About a third of the company's total was made up of fleet sales, a person familiar with the matter said.
Ford reported its sales fell 30% to 132,248 cars and light trucks, Toyota Motor Corp.'s fell 23% to 152,101 and Honda Motor Co.'s dropped 28% to 85,864. For Toyota, fleet sales comprise less than 10% of total sales.
The sharp contractions came as U.S. consumer confidence fell in October to its lowest level since the Conference Board, a New York research group, began keeping records in 1967. The stock market fell 14% last month.
Unemployment is expected to rise from its current level of about 6%. The auto industry alone has announced 10,000 layoffs in the last two weeks as production cuts continue.
With the economy contracting, auto makers are pushing forward year-end sales. GM's "Red Tag" sale will start Tuesday rather than in mid-November, as is customary. GM will offer as much as $7,250 off select 2008 and 2009 models. Toyota will extend its national 0% financing campaign through November.
Ford said it is likely to cut its output of cars and crossover utility vehicles even as it plans to ramp up production of pick-up trucks. "There are no hot segments or hot products," Mr. Pipas said. Even the red-hot Ford Focus, the small car that saw sales rocket this summer, has stalled out, with an 18% drop in October.
"In my 27 years, I have never seen a month like this," said GM sales chief Mark LaNeve. "It was like somebody turned off the lights in the month of October."
—Sharon Terlep and John D. Stoll contributed to this article.
IMAGE THIS SCENARIO, and the POLITICAL CHAOS that would ensue???
http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard?name=|content=111101000110101011100000111100000111100011111010101
TIED ELECTORAL VOTE!!!!
It would place McCain in the White House, with Biden as VP!!
Beware of Congress’s Threat to Tax 401Ks
By Elizabeth MacDonald
http://emac.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2008/10/31/beware-of-congresss-threat-to-tax-401ks/
With the bear market red in the claw, with an equal opportunity bear market taking out solid stocks right and left, with panicked investors feeling like every headline is an explosion, comes this impenetrable stupidity:
Some Democrats in Congress have held hearings that included discussions of new proposals to tax 401K money. Specifically, the idea would be to eliminate most of the $80 bn in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive. Which means a nearly $80 bn tax hike.
Heavy Retirement Losses
The idea to tax 401K funds comes at a time when the Social Security trust fund is deep in the red and investors have lost nearly half of their retirement savings–$2 tn–over the past 15 months, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Retirement accounts known as 401Ks had held nearly $5 tn in savings at the start of the year.
Democrats are expected to gain seats in both the House and the Senate in the coming election. A filibuster-proof 60-seat majority is a strong possibility in the Senate, which has historically been less receptive than the House to taxing retiree funds.
In early 1968 President Lyndon Johnson made a change in the budget presentation by including Social Security and all other trust funds in a “unified budget,” which effectively let government use Social Security funds for its overall budget needs.
Gut-clenching Volatility
The Democrats’ move comes as investor fear is rampant, as investors have been experiencing increasing acid reflux ever since the subprime crisis went viral in August 2007.
Wall Street is witnessing gigantic swings never before seen in the history of the stock market, with the S&P 500 Options Volatility Index (the VIX) repeatedly breaking through the unheard of 80 barrier, twice the 40 levels that were unthinkable even when oil hit $147 a barrel this past summer-making a VIX 50 the new VIX 40.
Congress’s Support of Taxing 401Ks
House Democrats several weeks ago invited Teresa Ghilarducci, a professor at the New School of Social Research in New York City, to testify before Congress on her plan to eliminate the preferential tax treatment of 401K plans.
Specifically, Ghilarducci testified before the House Education and Labor Committee, chaired by Rep. George Miller, (D-Calif.), about her plan.
“We’ve invested $80 bn into subsidizing this activity,” Miller reportedly said in testimony, referring to tax breaks allowed for 401K contributions and savings.
With savings rates going down, “what do we have to start to think about in Congress of whether or not we want to continue and invest that $80 bn for a policy that is not generating what we … say it should?” Miller reportedly said.
House Education and Labor committee spokesman Aaron Albright emailed to say that the notion that Rep. Miller wants to tax 401K money is “absolutely ridiculous,” adding “chairman Miller wants to preserve and strengthen 401K plans, not tax them.”
Albright noted that the committee has called 11 witnesses, including retirement experts and advisors, over the last couple of weeks to assess the impact of the market’s downturn on 401Ks. He added that the committee is looking at disclosure of fees that eat into savings, as well as other measures to strengthen 401Ks.
Rep. Jim McDermott, (D-Wash.), chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, has reportedly said that since “the savings rate isn’t going up for the investment of $80 bn [in 401K tax breaks], we have to start to think about whether or not we want to continue to invest that $80 bn for a policy that’s not generating what we now say it should.”
The idea being that, despite their tax-deferred status, 401K funds are not doing much to add to the nation’s savings rate.
Government Data Flawed
However, the government’s measure of the US savings rate does not include stock market gains or real estate gains, which of course have been smacked hard during the credit crisis and economic downturn. And that means the government does not count in its official savings rate the $5 tn that was invested in 401K accounts at the start of the year.
The Expert’s Tax Plan
The idea is to redirect 401K tax breaks to a new government system of guaranteed retirement accounts into which all US workers would be have to contribute.
Specifically, under Ghilarducci’s plan, the tax breaks on 401K contributions and earnings would be eliminated.
Instead, all workers would get a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government. The sum would be inflation-indexed. Workers then would be forced to invest 5% of their pay in a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration.
That money in turn would then be invested in government bonds that would pay a teensy 3% a year, adjusted for inflation, less than half the inflation-adjusted 7% return the stock market has delivered.
“I want to stop the federal subsidy of 401Ks,” Ghilarducci has said, adding, “401Ks can continue to exist, but they won’t have the benefit of the subsidy of the tax break.”
Tax Cuts Set to Expire
The idea to tax 401K accounts comes as a potential Obama Administration would let the Bush income tax cuts expire across the board.
That means even small businesses earning less than $250,000 a year would also see their taxes go up. The capital gains and dividend tax rates would also rise as well. Obama might also impose Social Security taxes on a higher level of wages and self-employment income.
Lower Taxes Help the Deficit?
As the US applies the paddles to the economy with record bailouts, a member of Congress during a recent hearing posed the question to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke whether raising taxes during a downturn as a good idea. Bernanke’s answer: No.
And experts say lower taxes actually help the deficit. Between 2004 and 2007, when the Bush tax cuts were in full flower, the budget deficit narrowed from $413 bn to $162 bn in large part thanks to rapid growth in tax revenue, the Economist Magazine notes.
This was caused not just by rising incomes, but also by a shift in the distribution of incomes to the wealthy, who pay the highest tax rates, the magazine says. Much of that wealth came from the credit boom which drove up financial profits, salaries and bonuses as well as property and stock values and related capital gains, it adds.
The US has added the equivalent of the gross domestic product of Great Britain and something like two Canadas and five Saudi Arabias since 2003. Between year-end 2002 and year-end 2007 U.S. growth exceeded the entire size of China’s economy, Steve Forbes has noted.
However, Congress has virtually spent the amount in its bid to build a Supersize Me Government, spending that now sits squarely on the backs of taxpayers and entrepreneurs and which does not include the trillions of dollars in extra spending for the housing bailout and the bailout of Wall Street.
All proof positive that Congress has no more sense than a flock of geese.
FDIC Seizes Freedom Bank
Friday, October 31, 2008
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/fdic-seies-freedom-bank/
That is an interesting thought.
If you believe this, then it would be a good time to buy and hold long term.
Can the Fed Really Just Print Money?
by: Josh Patt October 30, 2008
http://seekingalpha.com/article/102974-can-the-fed-really-just-print-money?source=feed
Yesterday, the Fed reduced the overnight federal funds rate to 1% and the discount rate to 1.25%. There’s not much more room for rate reductions before the Fed needs to take more drastic actions to make credit available.
The Fed and the Treasury are determined and they will do whatever necessary to avoid deflation, short of paying people’s mortgages for them. Bernanke made this clear in his now famous speech from 2002:
I am confident that the Fed would take whatever means necessary to prevent significant deflation in the United States and, moreover, that the U.S. central bank, in cooperation with other parts of the government as needed, has sufficient policy instruments to ensure that any deflation that might occur would be both mild and brief. …
The U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation.
But is creating more dollars the same thing as creating more money, thus avoiding deflation? Will the Fed actually be able to generate higher spending and positive inflation as Bernanke says?
To answer this, we need to understand what money actually is. Modern money is credit, meaning a promise to pay a certain value as denominated in a currency. So how do we measure the amount of money in circulation? Should we determine the amount of credit money based on the nominal amount of currency, or based on the value of goods and services promised? A real measure of money would have to use the latter. In this case, if creating more dollars does not result in an increase in the amount of credit as determined by value in goods and services, then more money has not actually been created.
So it is possible that printing more dollars will not have the desired effect of creating more money and thus reflating the economy. It will just create more dollars which will be hoarded or used to pay off debt.
Real inflation is caused not only by the amount of money in existence, but also by its velocity, which is how quickly it moves from one person to the next. To get inflation, you need to get people to spend the new money and then to borrow more. You also need people willing to produce and sell things in exchange for this money.
In hyperinflation, nobody wants to hold onto money because they fear that it will be worth less tomorrow so they spend what they have as soon as they get it. This feeds on itself with increasing price rises causing increasing inflation expectations causing increasing velocity which causes prices to increase again, and so on. In deflation this works in the opposite way, and both cycles can be difficult to stop once they get going.
In the present economy people are less able and less willing to borrow and spend money into existence. So, to cause inflation, the Fed needs to replace the borrowing and spending “efforts” of hundreds of millions of people.
It’s not clear that Ben Bernanke’s printing press will be able to accomplish this before it destroys the value of the dollar. If the dollar stops having value as money, then it doesn’t matter how many trillion dollars you print into existence.
We live in a global economy where the dollar isn’t the only meaningful measure of value. We need to import from other countries and we need to pay the value of the goods we import, not a set nominal number of dollars. If people around the world feel that they will not be able to get something for dollars, they will eventually stop accepting them for their own goods, regardless of all the political reasons to take dollars.
The Fed can’t print money, it can only print dollars. For now this is essentially the same thing, but it doesn’t need to be.
How should we invest in this kind of environment? We are in uncharted waters, so there is no tried and true solution for how to profit from all this, but protecting your capital is the most important thing. You need to be able to preserve the value of your savings before you can make them grow. In the present environment it’s hard to see how to do either, but here are some defensive investments that make sense now:
Government issued inflation linked bonds such as TIPS in the U.S or the equivalent in other countries. We hope that the interest makes up for the amount the government understates inflation, so we at least break even. There is an ETF with the symbol TIP that invests in these, or you can buy them directly from the U.S. Treasury here.
Gold and silver have been a good store of value over the long term, though they can be very volatile in the short term. They can’t be printed and they can’t default, so they will always be worth something. GLD and SLV are ETFs that invest in gold and silver bullion respectively, though there are many other ways to invest in precious metals.
Basic consumer products that will be consumed in any economic environment. Food is the most obvious of these. Here we want companies with recognized brands that give them some pricing power. Look for shares with dividends because they help support the share price and provide some income. Heinz (HNZ), General Mills (GIS) and Kraft (KFT) are some examples.
When the dust settles there will clearly be some excellent investment opportunities in many sectors, but you need to preserve your capital in order to take advantage of them.
Disclosure: The author is invested in gold, silver and inflation linked securities. He has no positions in the companies mentioned.
Gold's Fundamentals: 'Extremely Appealing'
by: Hard Assets Investor October 31, 2008
http://seekingalpha.com/article/103271-gold-s-fundamentals-extremely-appealing?source=feed
The gold market has been very volatile over the past six months, and the market's been behaving oddly. What's driving the price of gold recently?
Joe Foster, portfolio manager of the Van Eck International Investors Gold Fund (Foster): The fundamentals have not been driving it; that's clear. Ever since mid-July, when Fannie Mae (FNM) and Freddie Mac (FRE) started to collapse, the markets have really started to go haywire ... all the markets, gold included.
We are going through a period right now that we have never experienced in history. What we thought would be a normal reaction in these circumstances just doesn't hold right now. We're getting massive liquidation across all asset classes, with a huge deleveraging going on among institutions, hedge funds, etc. People are selling everything regardless of fundamentals, and gold is caught up in that. It's dropped lower than you ever thought it would.
HAI: Where did you expect to see the bottom?
Foster: In a crisis like this, you would expect gold would perform well. It hasn't done that. It's dropped lower than I ever thought was possible at this stage of the cycle. We're still at a period of time when you can't rely on fundamentals. This panic will run its course before we can get back to fundamentals.
We'll have to talk in stages. The first stage is the current stage, the crisis stage. I don't think it's over yet, but no one knows when it will be over. Then we can talk about the post-crisis stage, when fundamentals will reassert themselves and we can consider what the environment will look like at that point.
HAI: How far along are we in the crisis? Do we have any visibility on how much de-leveraging we have already seen in the commodities space?
Foster: The sellers of gold throughout this have been mainly institutions, hedge funds, pension funds and other institutions invested in the commodity indexes. When they sell off a basket of commodities, gold is a component of that and so it gets sold off as well. We've been hearing that the de-leveraging and forced selling could go on through the end of the year, but it is an opaque situation. Nobody knows.
HAI: Once we do get past the crisis, what are the long-term fundamentals? What should investors do right now with gold? Is now a good time to buy, or should they wait?
Foster: Somewhere in here is a great buying opportunity. We might be there today. Given the dramatic fall in the price of gold, and specifically if you look at gold stocks, which have fallen even harder than gold has, it gets interesting. If you want to take a long-term view, now is a great time to get into the gold game. When we get out of this crisis mode, the fundamentals will be and are extremely appealing for gold and gold shares.
I think several things will go in gold's favor in the future. We're seeing this tremendous strength in the dollar right now. That is what is different in this current crisis: The dollar has become the safe haven asset, instead of gold. I think that will unwind eventually. And that's one of the key reasons that gold is doing so poorly right now: We're seeing this incredible increase in the dollar.
The second thing is that we are going into an economic scenario that is fraught with risk. The level of risk has risen to new highs and I think it will be with us for a long time. I believe we are going into a tough recession. I think we'll see continued banking problems, even after we get out of the crisis mode. It will take a long time for the housing market to turn around. These kinds of things create a good environment for gold.
HAI: One of the things we've been monitoring is the battle between the forces of inflation, such as the massive injections of liquidity by the Fed, and the forces of deflation, such as the massive de-leveraging by the banks. How do those two combine, and what is the outcome for gold?
Foster: I see both of those forces playing a role right now. The way I think it will play out is that we'll go through a disinflationary period, and I think the Fed will be very worried about deflation as they were in 2001 and 2002. I think we'll see very easy Fed monetary policies, and have negative real interest rates because of those policies. That's an environment gold thrives in. Look at what the Fed was doing in 2001-2002: The market was heading lower, gold was heading higher and the Fed was trying to pump up the economy. I think we're back into that mode.
First we'll go through a weak economy and deflationary scare, which will be favorable for gold. How long will that last? Probably a year or two. Following that, once the economy starts to recover, we could be facing an inflationary episode that could rival the 1970s. We're going to see these extremely easy borrowing policies, and a tremendous amount of government borrowing. The federal government is taking on a tremendous amount of risk by taking stakes in insurance companies and banks, and its balance sheet is exploding. Eventually, they'll have to monetize those liabilities, and the way they do that at the end of the day is by printing money. That's hugely inflationary.
If the economy gets back on track, we'll see the same supply issues we were facing a year ago in all the commodities - Metals, Ags, etc. That will feed into an inflationary cycle on top of the Fed monetizing their debt. I see this morphing into an inflationary episode several years out that could be very painful.
HAI: That's an ugly picture of the economy, but a pretty picture for gold. How could it turn out differently?
Foster: One of my jobs as a gold fund manager is to point out the risks in the economy and the way investors can protect themselves. It may not play out exactly as I'm describing, but it may be something similar to that, which means your portfolio will really benefit if it has some gold in there.
HAI: Do you favor gold or gold shares here?
Foster: Gold shares have never been this cheap relative to the gold price. They have been indiscriminately sold over the past several months. If you wanted to go with gold companies, I would look at the producing companies with good cash flow. We could enter a period of very tight capital markets for a couple of years, which will make it very tough on the smaller companies developing projects with no cash flow. The companies that are producing gold right now ... for those companies, with prices at $700/ounce, they are making good cash flow and will get through this crisis well.
Beyond that, we like companies that have growth. Global gold production is in decline right now, so we look for companies that are well-managed and have growth and can fund that growth. Kinross Gold (KGC) is one example.
HAI: Any other words of advice for investors?
Foster: If it's any consolation, if you look at the performance of gold versus other metals or oil, gold has outperformed just about everything else, I think. It's down, but I think it's still performed better than other asset classes.
And if you look at gold in other currencies, gold actually reached all-time highs recently in euros, British pounds, Australian dollars, Swiss francs. It hasn't been that bad of an investment, relative to everything else. It speaks to gold as a unique asset class, and I think that might be missed in all this selling. Relative to other things, especially in local currencies, it has actually done OK.
HAI: One last question: How big a portion of a portfolio should be in gold?
Foster: I use this myself, and also recommend it to clients: 10% of your portfolio diversified in gold and gold shares is appropriate.
Thanks Jim,
I really do think now is a good time to exercise that strong dollar and get into metals now, because I dont think the dollar will be strong for long. Consider this article, it is an excellent read:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/102974-can-the-fed-really-just-print-money?source=feed
peace,
Joe
Can the Fed Really Just Print Money?
by: Josh Patt October 30, 2008
http://seekingalpha.com/article/102974-can-the-fed-really-just-print-money?source=feed
Yesterday, the Fed reduced the overnight federal funds rate to 1% and the discount rate to 1.25%. There’s not much more room for rate reductions before the Fed needs to take more drastic actions to make credit available.
The Fed and the Treasury are determined and they will do whatever necessary to avoid deflation, short of paying people’s mortgages for them. Bernanke made this clear in his now famous speech from 2002:
I am confident that the Fed would take whatever means necessary to prevent significant deflation in the United States and, moreover, that the U.S. central bank, in cooperation with other parts of the government as needed, has sufficient policy instruments to ensure that any deflation that might occur would be both mild and brief. …
The U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation.
But is creating more dollars the same thing as creating more money, thus avoiding deflation? Will the Fed actually be able to generate higher spending and positive inflation as Bernanke says?
To answer this, we need to understand what money actually is. Modern money is credit, meaning a promise to pay a certain value as denominated in a currency. So how do we measure the amount of money in circulation? Should we determine the amount of credit money based on the nominal amount of currency, or based on the value of goods and services promised? A real measure of money would have to use the latter. In this case, if creating more dollars does not result in an increase in the amount of credit as determined by value in goods and services, then more money has not actually been created.
So it is possible that printing more dollars will not have the desired effect of creating more money and thus reflating the economy. It will just create more dollars which will be hoarded or used to pay off debt.
Real inflation is caused not only by the amount of money in existence, but also by its velocity, which is how quickly it moves from one person to the next. To get inflation, you need to get people to spend the new money and then to borrow more. You also need people willing to produce and sell things in exchange for this money.
In hyperinflation, nobody wants to hold onto money because they fear that it will be worth less tomorrow so they spend what they have as soon as they get it. This feeds on itself with increasing price rises causing increasing inflation expectations causing increasing velocity which causes prices to increase again, and so on. In deflation this works in the opposite way, and both cycles can be difficult to stop once they get going.
In the present economy people are less able and less willing to borrow and spend money into existence. So, to cause inflation, the Fed needs to replace the borrowing and spending “efforts” of hundreds of millions of people.
It’s not clear that Ben Bernanke’s printing press will be able to accomplish this before it destroys the value of the dollar. If the dollar stops having value as money, then it doesn’t matter how many trillion dollars you print into existence.
We live in a global economy where the dollar isn’t the only meaningful measure of value. We need to import from other countries and we need to pay the value of the goods we import, not a set nominal number of dollars. If people around the world feel that they will not be able to get something for dollars, they will eventually stop accepting them for their own goods, regardless of all the political reasons to take dollars.
The Fed can’t print money, it can only print dollars. For now this is essentially the same thing, but it doesn’t need to be.
How should we invest in this kind of environment? We are in uncharted waters, so there is no tried and true solution for how to profit from all this, but protecting your capital is the most important thing. You need to be able to preserve the value of your savings before you can make them grow. In the present environment it’s hard to see how to do either, but here are some defensive investments that make sense now:
Government issued inflation linked bonds such as TIPS in the U.S or the equivalent in other countries. We hope that the interest makes up for the amount the government understates inflation, so we at least break even. There is an ETF with the symbol TIP that invests in these, or you can buy them directly from the U.S. Treasury here.
Gold and silver have been a good store of value over the long term, though they can be very volatile in the short term. They can’t be printed and they can’t default, so they will always be worth something. GLD and SLV are ETFs that invest in gold and silver bullion respectively, though there are many other ways to invest in precious metals.
Basic consumer products that will be consumed in any economic environment. Food is the most obvious of these. Here we want companies with recognized brands that give them some pricing power. Look for shares with dividends because they help support the share price and provide some income. Heinz (HNZ), General Mills (GIS) and Kraft (KFT) are some examples.
When the dust settles there will clearly be some excellent investment opportunities in many sectors, but you need to preserve your capital in order to take advantage of them.
Disclosure: The author is invested in gold, silver and inflation linked securities. He has no positions in the companies mentioned.
uh oh...
Uh oh....
"I think its different this time" is a thing that I have said to myself many times.
It now makes me shudder when I hear them.
Good luck, though, I hope you are right, but I wouldn;t bet the farm.
auy and slw are bouncing back. i think they are solid. who knows. its true that the gold has been on a slide. but i really do not think that buying gold now is a bad investment, wuite the contrary. its a good time to get into everything right now. but the only way out of the credit mess is to urge inflation higher, and a 1 % fed rate is just the beginning of such deliberate efforts. gold can be suppressed only so long, now is the time to buy gold, without a doubt. i think gold will go to 1500 an ounce in 2009.
but who knows?
"Harsh storm" threatens global economy
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081030/ts_nm/us_financial6
NEW YORK (Reuters) – The U.S. economy contracted in the third quarter as the financial crisis raged, while Japan and Germany said they would spend billions of dollars to provide a cushion against a deep global recession.
The spending measures would complement a series of interest rates cuts, including those from China, Norway and the United States on Wednesday.
Japan may cut rates on Friday and the European Central Bank, Britain and Australia are expected to follow next week, coming on the heels of data that showed a rapid deterioration in major economies.
"A harsh storm seen only once in 100 years is raging," Japanese Prime Minister Taro Aso told a news conference.
The president of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank, Janet Yellen, called recent trends in the U.S. economy "deeply worrisome."
The first Fed official to speak after Thursday's news that the U.S. economy contracted in the third quarter, Yellen said the U.S. federal funds rate could potentially go "a little lower" than 1 percent, one day after the Fed cut its benchmark lending rate by a half percentage point.
"The mortgage meltdown is far from over, the economy and financial markets are still reeling from it," she said.
The world's largest economy shrank at a 0.3 percent annual rate in the third quarter, the sharpest contraction in the United States in seven years. U.S. consumers slashed spending at the sharpest rate in 28 years in the third quarter, undermining growth.
CREDIT MARKETS THAW
The economy also suffered in the third quarter as businesses cut investment. More companies announced payroll cuts on Thursday. Credit card issuer American Express Co said it would chop 7,000 jobs, while cellular phone maker Motorola Inc said it would lay off 3,000 workers.
However, the data on the gross domestic product was not as bad as many had feared, which along with the global rate cuts and signs of a thaw in credit markets helped push U.S. stocks up about 2 percent.
The gains brought stability to a market that had fallen to 5-1/2-year lows this month, ravaged by the credit turmoil. U.S. stocks are still down about 15 percent just this month.
European shares lost much of their earlier gains but still closed higher.
Japan's benchmark Nikkei average index closed up 10 percent, a third straight day of gains that have lifted the index 26 percent. However, like most markets in the world, the Nikkei remains down more than 40 percent this year.
Even as the markets edged higher, there remained some big pockets of weakness, including insurance, which has been discussed as a possible recipient for U.S. bailout funds.
Hartford Financial Services Group Inc shares lost more than half their value, sinking to an all-time low, a day after the company had what its chief executive described as the worst quarter in its 198-year history, stoking concern it may need to raise even more capital.
"What we see is the world getting much worse," Lazard Ltd Chief Executive Bruce Wasserstein said in an interview with Fortune Magazine that was open to the media. "The financial system has a long way to go" before rebounding, the legendary dealmaker said.
U.S. AUTO BAILOUT URGED
As U.S. banks began announcing the terms under which the government had injected billions of dollars in capital into them, they reiterated pleas to the U.S. Treasury Department to clarify whether participating in the $250 billion program would force them to cut executive pay or bar them from paying dividends.
Still, encouraging news emerged from the banking sector. Closely watched rates on bank-to-bank borrowing fell on Thursday, helped by the U.S. Federal Reserve's rate cut on Wednesday and currency swap lines to ease a scramble for dollars around the world.
Also, the supply of U.S. commercial paper rose on Wednesday, signaling a Federal Reserve program to buy the securities appears to have revived this crucial part of the credit market.
U.S. banks' direct borrowing from the Federal Reserve decreased last week but remained at very high levels, even as the central bank made loans directly to businesses for the first time ever.
There have been fewer positive signs for the auto industry, and a lobby group for top U.S. chief executives said the Treasury should use some of the funds from the bailout legislation to provide direct capital injections to automakers and their finance companies.
But a Bush administration official said the Treasury Department was not negotiating with General Motors Corp and the owners of Chrysler LLC on a request to provide direct government aid to their proposed merger.
The U.S. GDP data came five days before the U.S. presidential election and candidates seized on the report as a chance to take swipes at their rival's plans.
Democratic nominee Barack Obama called the contracting economy "a direct result" of Bush administration policies that he said Republican nominee "John McCain has embraced for the last eight years and plans to continue for the next four."
The McCain camp fired back that "Barack Obama would accelerate this dangerous course. ... John McCain offers a new direction and a real choice."
BRAZIL AIMS TO DODGE DOWNTURN
Japan, the world's second biggest economy, unveiled a 5 trillion yen ($51 billion) package of spending measures to support its economy.
"I am certain that what is most important is to remove uncertainties from the lives of people," said Japan's prime minister.
Germany planned to introduce a range of steps worth up to about 30 billion euros ($39.17 billion) to boost investment in Europe's biggest economy.
The package will include support for car makers and building renovation as well as tax breaks enabling companies to write off a share of their investments, German newspapers reported.
Governments are desperate to put measures in place to protect their economies against recession, which euro-zone statistics suggested has hit much of Europe.
Economic sentiment in the 15-nation currency bloc plunged to its lowest level since 1993 in October, official data showed.
Brazil's top economic officials said the global financial crisis will not push the country into a recession and that the central bank would unveil a new lending facility for exporters suffering from a credit crunch.
Poor corporate earnings and forecasts for 2009 from companies from Eastman Kodak Co to British advertising firm WPP Group to Japanese automaker Mitsubishi Motors Corp supported the view that the downturn would be long-lasting.
Fed cuts key interest rate half-point to 1 percent
Wednesday October 29, 3:45 pm ET
By Martin Crutsinger, AP Economics Writer
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081029/fed_interest_rates.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Federal Reserve has slashed a key interest rate by half a percentage point as it seeks to revive an economy hit by a long list of maladies stemming from the most severe financial crisis in decades.
The central bank on Wednesday reduced its target for the federal funds rate, the interest banks charge on overnight loans, to 1 percent, a low last seen in 2003-2004. The funds rate has not been lower since 1958, when Dwight Eisenhower was president.
The cut marked the second half-point reduction in the funds rate this month. The Fed slashed the rate by that amount in a coordinated move with foreign central banks on Oct. 8.
In a brief statement explaining Wednesday's action, the Fed said that the "intensification of financial market turmoil is likely to exert additional restraint on spending, partly by further reducing the ability of households and business to obtain credit."
The central bank said that "downside risks to growth remain" holding out the promise of further rate cuts if needed. The rate-cut decision was unanimous.
Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and his colleagues pledged that they would "monitor economic and financial developments carefully and will act as needed to promote sustainable economic growth and price stability."
Wall Street had staged its second biggest point surge ever on Tuesday with the Dow Jones industrial average climbing by 889 points in anticipation of the Fed's action. Trading was more subdued on Wednesday with the Dow actually slipping into negative territory immediately after the announcement, but surged up by about 200 points in late-afternoon trading.
Many analysts said they believe the Fed will not stop at 1 percent if officials see the need to cut rates further. Some are forecasting another half-point move at the Fed's last meeting of the year on Dec. 16.
But other economists said with rates already so low, the Fed may decide to hold at 1 percent, leaving some room for a further reduction if needed next year should the country's economic troubles intensify.
David Jones, chief economist at DMJ Advisors, said the Fed's rate cut will be followed over the next week by similar action in other major countries as they grow more concerned that the recession that began in the United States is spreading to their regions.
But he said a section of the Fed's statement where it listed all the efforts taken so far to battle the slowdown was a signal the central bank believes it has done enough for now.
Other economists disagreed, saying the Fed clearly lowered its worries about inflation while raising concerns about economic growth.
Sung Won Sohn, an economist at the Smith School of Business at California State University, said he believed the Fed will make the "momentous decision" to move the funds rate to zero if events in coming months show such an action is needed to battle the global credit crisis.
In its statement, the Fed indicated it had room to lower rates because the spreading economic weakness was lowering the risks that inflation would get out of control. Indeed, the weakness has caused dramatic declines in the price of oil and other commodities.
While many economists believe the country has already fallen into a recession, they think the aggressive efforts by the Fed to cut rates and take other actions to unfreeze credit markets will keep the country from plunging into a prolonged and deep downturn.
The Fed's action was expected to be quickly followed by a reduction by commercial banks in their prime lending rate, the benchmark for millions of consumer and business loans, by a similar half-point.
The central bank also announced that it was lowering its discount rate, the interest it charges to make direct loans to banks, by a half-point to 1.25 percent. This rate has become increasingly important as the central bank has dramatically increased direct loans to banks in an effort to break the grip of the credit crisis.
Bernanke pledged in a speech earlier this month that the Fed "will not stand down until we have achieved our goals of repairing and reforming our financial system and restoring prosperity."
In addition to the rate cuts, the Fed has been moving to pump billions of dollars into the banking system to help unfreeze markets that seized up in dramatic fashion last month. The ensuing meltdown of financial markets caused the Bush administration to successfully lobby Congress to pass on Oct. 3 a $700 billion rescue package to make direct purchases of bank stock and buy up bad assets as a way of getting financial institutions to start lending again.
That money started flowing earlier this week with $125 billion going to nine of the nation's biggest banks. Other industries, including automakers and insurance companies, are in talks with the administration to get a share of the bailout funds.
And there is pressure from lawmakers to deploy some of the bailout resources to provide mortgage guarantees to encourage more banks to rework home loans to stem a record tide of foreclosures.
I agree with you on iamgold. that is tremendous. prob a better play than SLW.
Nonetheless, SLW is a strong company. I think that silver will rocket up in 2009 and SLW will be a steal at these prices.
I could be wrong though, and I think your idea is a conservative but strong play, too.
The question I have is this: the dollar is not fundamentally strong, but is strong in the short term as the fear feads its purchase and as the credit supply has dried up. BUt when the credit is loosened again, I think the dollar will be in for a long long fall, and this will be very scary and dangerous. More scary than these wild movements on wall street. It will be very hard to guess who will win and who will lose.... but I would bet that silver and gold will rocket up. Silver most of all.
IMF likely to need more money for its bailout fund
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081028/ap_on_re_eu/eu_imf_bailout
LONDON – With Iceland, Pakistan, Hungary and Ukraine already clamoring for mountains of cash aid, the $250 billion set aside by the International Monetary Fund to help struggling nations through the economic crisis is beginning to look puny.
China and oil-rich Persian Gulf states should fund the bulk of a major boost in the IMF's bailout pot, Gordon Brown, the British prime minister who has burnished his reputation by taking the lead on the financial meltdown, said Tuesday.
Those countries have the largest currency reserves and therefore should do the most, Brown said, without specifying how much more money should be added to the fund for helping nations whose banking systems and currencies are being battered.
"We must act now. We must set up the fund as quickly as possible," Brown told reporters before heading to Paris for further talks on the crisis with French President Nicolas Sarkozy.
"I believe it is possible in a very short period of time to create an international fund that is strong enough to withstand these difficulties," Brown said. "It is in every nation's interest and in the interests of hard working families in our country and every country that financial contagion does not spread."
Chinese institutions held relatively little of the toxic subprime mortgage debt hobbling Western institutions and were thus largely unscathed by the collapse of the U.S. housing market. But as a major exporter it is exposed to slumping demand for its products abroad if the debt crisis causes a deep global recession.
There was no immediate comment from the Chinese government, which has reported foreign currency reserves totaling $1.9 trillion as of the end of September.
Speaking in Berlin, Bahrain's King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa didn't directly address Brown's call for the Persian Gulf to help but said the region was open to talks. "We would like to play a part in (working on) an international financial system, a new system," he said.
Brown's office said he would discuss how much money he believes should be pledged to the IMF fund during talks Nov. 15 with world leaders in Washington. He and others, including Sarkozy, have called for discussion of a new world financial architecture relying on global bodies like the IMF.
The IMF's executive board is expected to soon consider streamlining its emergency loan programs ahead of a stream of petitions that analysts fear will be coming in from emerging economies needing support.
It already agreed to lend Iceland $2.1 billion and Ukraine $16.5 billion, and is in talks with Hungary for an estimated $10 billion to $12.5 billion in loans. Pakistan said Tuesday it would ask for an IMF bailout within two weeks if it cannot secure $5 billion in funding from other sources.
Brown said he planned to hold telephone talks with Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao this week and would go to the Persian Gulf region Saturday to discuss the crisis.
It will be "the countries that have got substantial reserves — the oil rich countries and others — who are going to be the biggest contributors to this fund," Brown said.
"China also has very substantial reserves. There are a number of countries that actually can do quite a lot in the immediate future to make sure that the international community has sufficient resources to support countries that get themselves into difficulties," he said.
With world stock markets down steeply, many investors have been withdrawing money from smaller countries' emerging markets, which has sent their currencies plunging. Tight credit from strapped banks and lending markets mean it is difficult for them to get financing on their own.
Those troubles in smaller countries could hit economies in richer countries that trade with them or whose banks do business there.
One analyst said Beijing could demand a bigger role in international institutions in return for helping.
"First thing that has to happen is that they have be seriously engaged in the dialogue," said Jeremy Batstone-Carr, head of research at the Charles Stanley investment firm in London. "If you want their money, you have to give them a seat at the top table and let them have their say."
Brown won plaudits after the British government took large stakes in foundering banks, an approach quickly adopted by the U.S. and other European governments. That burnished his standing abroad — although at home his Labour Party still trails the Conservative opposition in polls.
Brown, who headed the IMF's 24-member policy advisory committee while he was head of the British Treasury for 10 years before he became prime minister in mid-2007, has taken the lead partly because he wants to maintain London's position as a major financial hub.
Stephen Lewis, chief economist at Monument Securities in London, said it is a vital national interest "that this position, and the tax revenues that flow from it, be preserved or enhanced in any new monetary arrangements that emerge from the forthcoming discussions."
However, Lewis said it is "probably premature" for policy makers to be trying to make decisions on a new international financial architecture when it is "not yet clear how much more of the old edifice will collapse."
There is widespread skepticism much can be accomplished at the November meeting in Washington, given next week's U.S. elections that will make President Bush even more of a lame duck.
"Some participants may be inclined to stall on decision-making, preferring to put off serious discussions until Bush's successor is in the White House," said Lewis.
White House to banks: Start lending now
AFP – US President George W. Bush speaks on the comprehensive financial rescue package in the Rose Garden of … WASHINGTON – An impatient White House prodded banks and other financial companies Tuesday to quit hoarding billions of dollars flowing into their vaults from Washington and start making more loans. Wall Street soared nearly 900 points on bargain-hunting and hopes of a hefty interest rate cut by the Federal Reserve.
The stock market's amazing climb, with its second-largest point gain ever, was a welcome burst of good news for a nation suffering big job losses and seemingly tumbling into a painful recession.
Consumer pessimism reached record levels in October amid rising unemployment, plunging home prices and shrinking retirement and investment accounts. The Conference Board, a private research group, said consumer confidence fell to its lowest point since it began tracking consumer sentiment in 1967.
Hoping to thaw the credit freeze that has chilled the economy, the Bush administration sent banks an unmistakable message to put aside fears and open up loan windows for cash-starved businesses and consumers who have pulled back on spending.
"What we're trying to do is get banks to do what they are supposed to do, which is support the system that we have in America. And banks exist to lend money," White House press secretary Dana Perino said. While there are limits to Washington's power to affect banks' behavior, the White House decided it was time to use its bully pulpit.
"They (regulators) will be watching very closely, and they're working with the banks," Perino said.
Meanwhile, Treasury Department officials met with banking industry representatives to resolve a glitch in the rescue program that has temporarily prevented some 6,000 of the nation's 8,500 banks from applying for government support.
Treasury is buying preferred shares in banks as a way of injecting cash into the institutions. But about 6,000 of the nation's banks don't have publicly traded shares of stock and therefore are not set up in a way to meet Treasury's current qualifications.
Treasury officials at the meeting assured banking industry representatives that they are working to rework the application forms so that both banks with publicly traded stock and privately held institutions can qualify for the program. They said if the Nov. 14 deadline for applying for government support needs to be extended it will be.
Washington has pumped money and confidence-building measures into the system over recent weeks to get lending, the lifeblood of the credit-dependent American economy, flowing freely again and to combat the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. So far, though, it has not worked. While the crucial and much-watched short-term lending rate called the London Interbank Offered Rate, or Libor, has come down, it remains at elevated levels.
On Wednesday, the Federal Reserve is expected to announce a cut in its fed funds rate — and Wall Street is looking for a drop in the key interest rate by half a point to 1 percent.
At the center of the administration's efforts to thaw credit is the $700 billion financial bailout plan approved by Congress and signed by President Bush earlier this month. Under that law's authority, the administration is doling out $250 billion to banks in return for partial ownership.
The Treasury Department, which is overseeing the massive capital injection program along with the rest of the bailout, will pour $125 billion into nine of the country's largest banks, which account for 50 percent of all U.S. deposits. Anthony Ryan, Treasury's acting undersecretary for domestic finance, said the first payments went out Tuesday. An additional $125 billion will start flowing to other banks within days, he said.
"As these banks and institutions are reinforced and supported with taxpayer funds, they must meet their responsibility to lend, and support the American people and the U.S. economy," Ryan told the annual meeting of the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association. "It is in a strengthened institution's best financial interest to increase lending once it has received government funding."
Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., chairman of the House Oversight Committee, asked the banks getting the $125 billion to detail what they are paying their executives and employees, including bonuses.
"I question the appropriateness of depleting the capital that taxpayers just injected into the bank through the payment of billions of dollars in bonuses, especially after one of the financial industry's worst years on record," Waxman said.
The infusion of federal money is to rebuild banks' battered capital reserves so the institutions would feel comfortable resuming more normal lending practices. But that confidence was undercut somewhat when reports surfaced that bankers might use the money to buy other banks. Indeed, the government approved PNC Financial Services Group Inc. to receive $7.7 billion in return for company stock on Friday and, at the same time, PNC said it was acquiring National City Corp. for $5.58 billion.
There is little federal officials can do about it. There is no language in the bailout bill that specifically obligates banks receiving money to increase their loans. Officials had argued that attaching strings to the capital-infusion program would discourage financial institutions from participating.
"The way that banks make money is by lending money," Perino said. "And so they have every incentive to move forward and start using this money."
Other credit-loosening efforts have included:
_A Federal Reserve program, begun Monday, to purchase the short-term debt of businesses, known as commercial paper.
_Temporary guarantees by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. of new issues of bank debt — fully protecting the money, for a fee, even if the institution fails.
_Emergency loans from the Fed for financial institutions and even other types of companies. The Fed has been repeatedly tapping this Depression-era authority to be a lender of last resort.
_New temporary federal guarantees to assets held in money market mutual funds as of Sept. 19 but not since then.
_A temporary increase in the cap on deposit insurance from $100,000 to $250,000 on interest-bearing accounts, and unlimited deposit insurance for non-interest bearing accounts, which small businesses often use to cover payrolls and other expenses and which frequently exceed $250,000.
_The Fed's half-point reduction in its target interest rate on Oct. 8, done in conjunction with rate cuts by other central banks around the world.
Meanwhile, layoffs continue. Whirlpool Corp. said Tuesday it will cut 5,000 jobs. That's on top of other recent layoffs of thousands of workers by Xerox Corp., drugmaker Merck & Co. Inc. and financial services firm National City Corp.
Dow ends up almost 900, but no one is exhaling
AP – Wall street broker Michael Kilkenny works the trading floor of the New York Stock Exchange shortly after … Wall Street's best day in two weeks — and one of its best ever — was a joyless rally. Even a manic, final-hour stampede of buying that sent the Dow Jones industrials soaring almost 900 points did nothing to dispel the feeling that the market could turn on investors in an instant.
But the extraordinary, lurching volatility that has gripped Wall Street since the financial meltdown began in mid-September meant there were no guarantees the rally would hold, not even for a few days.
Investors are expecting a cut in interest rates when the Federal Reserve announces its decision Wednesday. But they're also staring into an economic abyss, bracing for a recession of a depth no one knows for sure.
Any other day like this — the Dow and the Standard and Poor's 500 both rose almost 11 percent — might have ended with boisterous cheers and paper tossed into the air. On Tuesday, 4 p.m. came with meager applause.
"I don't think it will be a sustained move," said Matt King, chief investment officer at Bell Investment Advisors.
The Dow finished 889 points higher to close at 9,065. On Oct. 13, the Dow rose 936 points, its best ever; no other single-day rally has come close in terms of points to what happened Tuesday.
Analysts ventured a number of explanations for the sudden rally — including coming interest rate cuts, bargain hunting, a market desperate to find a bottom and the expectation that banks, at the urging of the White House, will quit hoarding money and start making loans.
"There is nothing fundamental that came out today or yesterday that would take it up or down. We're all groping for something meaningful to talk about," said Bob Andres, chief investment strategist at Portfolio Management Consultants. "The market is exhausted from going down."
The mood on Main Street is decidedly more pessimistic, and new data Tuesday showed Americans are more depressed than market analysts had expected.
The Conference Board's consumer confidence index plunged to the lowest level in its 41-year history in the wake of this month's financial meltdown, the sharp drop in home prices and increasing job losses.
The index fell to 38, down from a September reading of about 61 — the third-steepest monthly decline since the board started the measure in 1967. Analysts, way off the mark, had expected 52.
"It's the worst consumer environment since the 1981-1982 recession," said Adam York, an economist at Wachovia Corp. Americans believe "there's a very dire situation in the U.S. economy right now, and they're not far from being right," he added.
Financial market turmoil and falling housing prices have wiped out trillions of dollars of household wealth in recent months. The S&P 500 had fallen 27 percent in October, and 40 percent for the year, before Tuesday's jump.
In addition, companies cut 760,000 jobs in the first nine months this year, sending the unemployment rate to 6.1 percent last month. Many economists expect layoffs to continue and the unemployment rate to rise to 8 percent or higher in 2009.
After the last recession, in 2001, the unemployment rate rose as high as 6.3 percent in June 2003.
On Tuesday, Whirlpool Corp. said it will cut 5,000 jobs. That's on top of other recent layoffs of thousands of workers by Xerox Corp., drugmaker Merck & Co. Inc. and financial services firm National City Corp.
"The collapse in confidence is directly tied to perceptions about economic conditions and that is likely to mean that households will keep their wallets closed," said Joel Naroff, an economist with Naroff Economic Advisors.
If they do, it'll happen at a bad time. The holiday season is just weeks away, and it's expected to be anemic.
"I don't know how long this is going to last," said Johnny Hunt, 50, a carpenter in Deltona, Fla., who says he is cutting back on a lot of things. "So I got to save money. You've got to hold onto what you do have."
S&P said in a report earlier this week that holiday retail sales would probably fall 2 percent to $250 billion this year, "the most difficult holiday season in memory for U.S. retailers."
Holiday sales have increased an average of 4.4 percent a year in the past decade, the report said.
Meanwhile, the housing slump, which set off the mortgage crisis that has consumed Wall Street for more than a year, shows no sign of abating. A closely watched index of home prices fell Tuesday by its steepest ever annual rate in August.
The Standard & Poor's/Case-Shiller 20-city housing index dropped a record 16.6 percent from August last year, the largest drop since its inception in 2000.
In addition, the Census Bureau reported that 2.8 percent of U.S. homes — excluding rental properties — were vacant and for sale in the third quarter, unchanged from the second quarter. That works out to 2.22 million properties, the second-highest quarterly number in records going back to 1956.
The first quarter clocked in at a 2.9 percent vacancy rate. In a normal market, it's about 1.7 percent, said Patrick Newport, an economist at IHS Global Insight. That means there's more than 800,000 excess vacant homes on the market.
Exacerbating the pricing environment is a rash of foreclosures, especially in once-hot markets like California, Las Vegas, Florida and Phoenix. Home prices are falling fastest there, according to Case-Shiller — dropping as much as 30 percent in August.
To move foreclosed properties off their books, lenders are sharply discounting prices, which is weighing down median prices.
On Thursday, the Commerce Department will provide its first estimate of the economy's third quarter performance, and many economists think the economy shrank. Economic contraction for the third and fourth quarters consecutively would meet the classic definition of recession.
i think there are many confirmed producers that will do well in 2009 that are trading at a heavy discount now. AUY is down something like 50%, for instance. I cannot BELIEVE that SLW has fallen so far, so fast. That, to me, is a gross overselling of Silver Wheaton. These are the dips that you buy in on, and hold hold hold.
What we know in the gold market is this: the IMF is selling, keeping the price deflated. Nonetheless, the gold stocks are steady, with increased buying in Chindia. Europe has a 4 week wait to get bullion. Yes the price drops and drops in dollar terms as the scared world moves into dollars as a safe haven. Is the dollar really strong? Not fundamentally. BUt does this give you a chance to buy bullion at rock bottom proces? YOu bet. Gold is going to roar back in 2009. No doubt. This is the lull to get in on.
I don't see hte point at risking real money for a stock that is well below sub penny now when there is so many other , confirmed discounts out there.
There is no get rich quick scheme. I have learned my lesson.
this is all true. I remember hedging my bet's that the share count would halt at 70 mil. When it crossed 120, I got skeptical. When the fake picture was put on the website, I got out.
Congress is tHe real problem here, but the media doesn;t know how to focus on COngress.
The way they cover the president, you would think that we had a King, and not a Republic.
Why don;t they focus on Congress, with its record low approval rates?> GO AFTER CONGRESS!!!! They are the ones who write the laws!!!!!!!!