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In 2012... for the entire 12 months... there is only 2 weeks worth of output!
Facts are facts... 4 years and $55mill+ and not a single unit doing what it is claimed to do.
Processor 1, 1.5, 2 or 3 really do not matter at this point.
Label them any way you wish... they could not get any single unit or combination of such units to perform as indicated, validated or otherwise wished for.
Why would a company continue to build yet another unit when they can not get a single one to work anywhere close to expectation or justifiable validity?
When the entire basis of progress is focused on proof of concept and proof of commercial viability why on earth would the focus be on anything other than demonstrating that one machine can prove it?
Why spend time and money that is running out building processor 2, 3, 4, 5... or anything past 1 that works?
Why not spend every amount of energy time and money making the single processor fully functional at maximum output in order to justify the need for any more???
Wouldn't 1 unit running 24/7 with positive output make this golden? Wouldn't that be step 1 to moving forward with 2, 3, 4, 5... or a secondary deal or even a higher stock price, basis for positive funding... positive pr... world recognition???
How can anyone, rocktenn included, want to move forward with a complete mismanagement?
Any intelligent person or president, ceo, coo, of cot worth a fecal matter would pursue the simplest and most obvious goal.
That is unless they know that doing so would disprove the goal.
sorry if i can not respond further today but i believe i may be out of posts
G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Constructive Input...
Here is a thought for jbi,
I see that advanced auto parts is running a sale on motor oil
They can just throw the plastic bottle and all in the reactor!
With the mail in rebate that they can fill out with a reprieved crayon they might be able to make a few bucks.
G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
What no new contests?
Guess what jbi is doing because no one really knows...
It has to be a contest to guess what the company may or may not do. No shareholder has enough guidance from the company to know wth is really going on.
In a real company with real guidance there would be no need to guess what might be going on, effective realistic guidance would clear up all the guesswork and prevent it from being a sideshow operation.
btw
What do you win for guessing right in all these 'whats jbi doing contests'... a small stuffed animal from the bottom row.
How many correct guesses to win the big stuffed pig with lipstick???
G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Outdated, inaccurate, obsolete...
Proof of concept based on jbi filling in the variables that they can not prove true in the real world.
Speculation, hope, and an ever changing plan/concept/method
inconclusive
unfounded
historically proven unattainable
and that's all with setting aside THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM
G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Constant Change...
Stepping out side today you see that it is sunny 80 and dry...
That does not mean that it will be that way every day just because your sampling of the weather today demonstrates desirable results.
Testing and validation were done in the past on units that are no longer deemed fully operational.
Changes, rework, variables and sampling conditions are no longer valid. Go outside in the winter on a bad day and the results may be considerable undesirable.
The only valid conclusions that can be demonstrated are those of historical documentation over an extended period.
If the processor was capable of all of the good that was so extensively touted why was it not run for more than a total of 2 weeks in a year?
Why is the second processor not being run?
Why is there a constant change/fix/upgrade?
Why is there a constant change of direction?
tapes, landfill, free, paid, htf, ragger, crayons?
With so many variables in processor, design, method, feedstock... how can any old validation be a basis for any current conclusion?
G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
ANY BOOTS INPUT?
So, is there a constant stream of plastic deliveries being made to drop off the MASSIVE quantities of feedstock required to run 2 processors at any considerable uptimes???
Any thoughts on how many bad crayons exist in the US?
or has that supply been exhausted in just a few days/hours?
G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
MORE BASIC QUESTIONS
That no one can answer because there is no guidance…
1. Adding a 2nd, 3rd… 4th kiln, each requires energy to operate, so what total impact in loss of energy/output/operating cost do added kilns have on the bottom line/efficiency?
2. Adding HTF to the process means that the HTF displaces plastic. How much net gain vs cost vs throughput is there? Adding 25% HTF to compact plastic 25% does not appear to be a net gain… and it adds steps, cost, time equipment, storage and procurement…
3. Reducing moisture content of feedstock requires energy unless you just take your chances and let it sit around taking up space until it dries out… how much energy/cost/space does this require? How much does this subtract from the bottom line?
Questions that no one has the answer to.
Questions that were not addressed by any third party assessment… it’s now extremely obvious that referencing obsolete SAIC type reports that were performed on this process (that is drastically different now than back when they were done) is completely irrelevant and unrealistic to use as a basis to conclude anything regarding the current process.
Questions that must have quantifiable answers before any realistic numbers are calculated.
Put aside THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM for a second and just based on the current existing process… is there any possibility of positive net gain … or does the process require 120% more energy/cost than the output?
No one knows.
Not even sure jbi knows.
Winging it without cad drawings is an indication that implementing new ideas into the works is most likely done with no predetermination of impact…. Let’s try this and see what happens… Let’s just hope it all works out…. Maybe we can just build a 4th and 5th processor and offset the downtime with more units that are not efficient enough on their own to turn a profit… maybe…not sure… no one knows
G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
The SAIC validation was on a processor that could only run for 3 days and is now considered by the company to be an obsolete r&d unit with minimal uptime.
Tell me, what does that really say about the ever so highly touted SAIC validation that was quickly rendered unreliable?
Unreliable because the processor is unreliable?
Unreliable because it use FREE plastic for its basis and now the recent 10K says that FREE plastic is not 'optimal' and plastic will need to be purchased or contaminants such as those found in a waste stream that is run through a ragger then burred in the ground will cause down time, issues and contaminated fuel?
Unreliable because it was based on a staged perfect world scenario that can not be duplicated to be commercially viable?
It was 4 years ago that the plan was stated as-
July 2009:
Setup and configure a 10 ton per day processor
Begin processing large amounts of plastics
September 2009:
Deploy 2nd large processor in Niagara Falls, NY (franchise)
Continue to move forward with our business model
Advantages of our Business ModelStandardized installation, documentation, and maintenance.
Shared fixed costs amongst a cluster of processors.
Realized economies of scale and scope.
Reduced energy costs to transport raw material to many
local sites as opposed to a single large facility.
Predictable revenues.
Financed growth by franchisees.
Growth and business stability through a land rush based
on exclusive agreements
What ever happened to all of those people lining up at the door to fork over $300K for a franchise anyway???
I see that idea of using FREE plastic
used to be that the company was getting paid to take plastic...
now its turned into having to pay for plastic.
In 2009 jbi promoted the lofty idea that they would get paid to take plastic from cities that paid $80 a ton to dispose of it. Any thoughts on why jbi isn’t getting $80 a ton to take plastic?
How about the days when "instant profitability" were touted??? What ever happened to all of those tons and tons of NASA tapes that were going to be turned into fuel anyway?
I believe there was talk of a deal with NASA to read 700 tapes a day at $22 each… $15,400 a day in profit that TRNT (jbi) would make and then turn those tapes into fuel.
Any thoughts on what happened to these deals to turn tapes into fuel and get paid to read them creating a nonstop supply of plastic to the tune of $250K a month in fuel on top of the $15k a day reading tapes?(my how the exciting expectations have ramped).
It was 4 years ago that the company was going to be instantly profitable from reading millions of dollars of tapes and then turning them into fuel and all that was needed was an air permit.
As you look at the progression you do not see progress as some have called it... what you see is a constant digression. Slow and steady the bar was lowered, the cost and timeline were extended and the hopes were revived by the next new hope of wild riches.
Each step of the way there was a new (smaller) carrot dangled just a little bit further away.
The problem now is that the carrot is so small and so far away that you can only follow it by smell.
And after rolling it through all of the crap it has been through its not smelling very appealing any more.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and expose the perpetrators of this misguidance. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
SAIC report, OBSOLETE AND INVALID
Two excellent points here that demonstrate that not only is the SAIC report OBSOLETE but it was INVALID as well.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=86767503
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=86768161
Based on what has been provided as guidance… perhaps there is more information that has not been disclosed? However, the touted SAIC data does not demonstrate that the conclusions were derived based on the big picture. The extrapolated data that has been used as a basis for promotion is merely an unsubstantiated ‘snapshot’ of a perfect world scenario.
In order to conduct a valid test of commercial validation it is necessary to sample the full operation process. That was not accomplished by SAIC based on real world evaluation that can be duplicated as evidenced by actual historical data or conceivable future performance.
For a valid evaluation it is necessary to include the ‘residue removal cycles’ time and cost as part of an accurate assessment.
Residue removal cycles – The process for removing the petcoke residue from the premelt and reactor is a lengthy process by which we shut down the processor, remove the loose petcoke from the premelt and reactor. Petcoke is removed from the processor after anywhere between the accumulation of 6,000 to 15,000 pounds, dependent on the types of feedstock being run;
page 35 of the 2012 jbi 10K annual report
Not only are the overall fuel production values NEGATIVE as derived from the jbi financials,
Which demonstrates that the SAIC report in incorrect in concluding commercial viability…
But furthermore there is a considerable added loss based on shutting the processor down every day in a half to three days for a minimum of 24 hours to take it offline, cool it down, clean it out, fully re-inspect it and reheat it to bring it back online.
The ‘continuous’ operation that SAIC evaluated is in actuality nothing more than a ‘batch’ process with considerable less efficiency than the narrow SAIC snapshot reveals.
If a true evaluation were performed that includes all of the necessary variables including cost of feedstock (purchased or free with the associated processing cost) and the actual full cycle with cleanouts and the actual value of output produced… The conclusion would be the same as the company is demonstrating-
NOT COMMERCIALLY VIABLE
There is one more factor that the SAIC would need to take into consideration in a fully credible assessment and that is MTBF cost and Life Expectancy cost.
During the fourth quarter of 2012, Processor #1 initially began in start-up mode, in which we tested all of the connections, fittings, gaskets and other components that could be a potential issue with the processor. Through this testing, it was determined that certain components needed to be replaced due to manufacturer defect, incompatibility with other new parts in the processor or malfunction
page 34 of the 2012 jbi 10K annual report
With all of the heating and cooling cycles necessary, anyone that has an engineering background would know, that the stresses, thermal degradation and failure susceptibility increase exponentially. The fact that the company has indicated this by graveyarding one processor and deeming another only capable of reduced federates, it is clear that the SAIC would need to calculate the processor and ongoing maintenance cost as part of the full equation-
Processor cost +
Maintenance cost +
feedstock/processing cost +
operating cost +
overhead –
total product produced value for the life of the processor.
If a processor can only operate a maximum of 3 days with one day shutdown
And the processor can only last a year before needing replaced
And the value of the fuel produced is historically proven to be negative
How can commercially viability possible be concluded?
We estimate a site consisting of three processors to cost $6.5 million plus the engineering design fees and Contractor Distributable Costs that could add up to $2 million to the overall Capital Cost to construct.
from the obsolete SAIC report
That means that the ‘old’ ‘simpler’, ‘non HTF’, ‘single kiln’ processors would cost $2.8mill each.
Just the cost of the processor alone can not justify any feasible profit calculation when actual uptime and maintenance cost added to the fact that it can not run for more than a year without being completely replaced.
By the time you fully account for feedstock/processing cost + operating cost + overhead… AND a 20% discount… how is this possibly profitable?
It most certainly does not equate to a-
SAIC(NYSE): $10M/Yr/Processor!
SAIC report, OBSOLETE AND INVALID
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to uncover the facts which show that this company is hiding through smoke and mirrors. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and expose the inaccuracies between reality and this created fantasy. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
They can't keep feedstock dry inside (under a roof) how will they ever keep it dry outside in a monofil???
Plastic Feedstock is FREE in OZ
The great wizard even said that he would get paid to take it before someone discovered the man behind the curtain...
In jbi land the man portraying a wizard now says-
JBII Complete Summary DD
For those new to jbi or p2o please dig into this before you make any commitments.
Here is some helpful information that you should take into consideration when evaluating this company as an investment-
The company has made incredible claims of potential…
FREE plastic, only $10brl cost, $10mill/yr processors, 85% margins…
they sound too good to be true, which as you well know this is the first indication that you should be on guard.
They have not been able to achieve ‘instant profitability’ as they indicated repetitively four years ago.
They have not been able to ‘quickly’ build and ‘franchise’ sites in every major city as they promised in the beginning.
They have not been able to put units on boats, or in waste management facilities, no hoards of companies or government agencies lining up at their door to ‘work together’.
There isn’t even one single unit in full operation 4 years after they promised that they would be a spectacular overnight success.
They have recently admitted in their 10K that they must pay for plastic.
This means that all of the outlandish claims are gone.
No FREE plastic, No $10brl cost, No $10mill/yr processors, No 85% margins…
All of the promises are empty.
All of the outlandish claims- gone
All of the past pages of DD, validation, and dreams of huge profits- obsolete
They are struggling to find a way to turn a profit after 4 years and $55,000,000 of tinkering with a process that they promised was golden.
Consider this thought while doing DD- They are now trying to downplay the harsh reality by reverting to “well we lost the game but we played our best, look at all of the good plays we made in our embarrassing defeat, we’ll get them next year”. Investing in a loser is charity… that may be a noble ideal for life and people… but not in the stock market.
The problem is simple-
THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM
Plastic is worth more than the fuel they can make.
Plastic is not cheap or easy to come by or process.
Plastic has subsidies to encourage recycling NOT repurposing.
The fantasy this company and idea is built upon is just that, a warm fuzzy, perfect world fantasy. The idea that just anyone can come along and revolutionize three extremely complex fields of discipline and exceed the current state of the art in each of those fields is fantasy. True, advancement and innovation are possible and great things have come from dreamers, but this is not an example.
Look at the numbers.
Look at the timeline.
Look at the promises.
Look at the excuses.
These are all important indicators that can be used to gauge truthful disclosure.
When so many numbers are so far apart between promises and timelines and the excuses are in no way significant enough to outweigh the obvious… you can start to see the truth from the misrepresentations.
The truth is simple,
This company can not consistently and reliably obtain the massive quantities of plastic necessary at a price that is less than the value of the fuel that they can make.
All of the excuses, delays, and hocus pocus is an orchestrated act designed to buy time.
If you had a chicken that could lay golden eggs… wouldn’t you simply let it? Or do you run a side show, sell tickets and merchandise and waste a lot of time chasing a nickel when you supposedly have a machine that makes an endless supply of dollars.
It is important for potential investors to look at the current state of the industries involved. Ask questions like-
Why do the patent holders of this technology not act on it?
Why has the government and environmental agencies not helped?
Why isn’t there widespread recognition, awards, and prestige associated with this company?
Why is all of the positive DD coming from such a limited source?
Why is there so much effort displayed to warn potential investors of the issues?
Please, if you are reading this, I urge you to take heed, consider all of the facts and please do not fall for the perfect world fantasy.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
FREE Plastic... they pay us to make fuel!
Any thoughts on why the 'negative feedstock cost' have now become 'we made the determination that in order to obtain the most optimal feedstock on a consistent basis, we would be required to purchase this feedstock.'?
page 35 of the jbii 2012 10K annual report
JBI in 1 Second:
Retail Fuel (Diesel and Gasoline) Output. Direct from Processor:
And then directly to the NEGATIVE bottom line.
SPLAT
Any thoughts on why jbi naphtha is only worth $.95?
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and expose the perpetrators of this misguidance. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Sorry Snow, not avoiding you, I just have no way to respond directly...
We have looked at this in the past and one of the biggest advantages here is the difference in 'powers that be' influence. I am sure it will come but it will not be as direct as it is with the recycling subsidies making the price of useable plastic out of reach.
The wider range of input and lower restrictions certainly make this much more possible to achieve commercial viability, but there are still a number of technical challenges that need addressed.
When I have more time I can share more insight.
I'm not a stock guru, but this is the point that really needs stickied-
Stock price at lowest level but offer more shares = LOWER LOWS
I don't know about all of the restricted shares or when they can be dumped.... but another PIPE is sure to come soon....
With absolutely nothing positive to move the stock up for quite a while... what will happen when the dumping and piping starts?
Common sense says that supply and demand play in here somewhere...
How low can it go?
At some point soon there is sure to be a panic when the reality that this is all heading south actually sets in. The hope for recouping lost dollars... the, "if only the stock price gets back to $2 I can break even and walk away"... turns into, "If it finally gets back to $.50 I can get out with only a 75% loss"... to finally, "if I get out now I can at least save a fraction of my huge loss before it hits $.0001 like 99% of all of the other too good to be true OTC scams".
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and expose the perpetrators of this misguidance. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
This sounds like a common faulty theme-
More throughput but more downtime = REDUCED NET OUTPUT
Loss on one processor but run three processors = 3x NEGATIVE LOSS
Process limitations but add more processes = MORE LIMITATIONS
Processor don't work but build another processor = MORE SCRAP PROCESSORS (4 an 5 are going to replace 1 and 2)
Stock price at lowest level but offer more shares = LOWER LOWS
HTF > fuel value but run HTF = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
(as noted in the 10K they paid a high price for HTF)
Plastic more than fuel but make more fuel = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
A > B but run A anyway = B STILL LESS THAN A
(plastic value > fuel value but run plastic anyway = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES)
At what point does it become obvious that this was all based on faulty math? Poor planning? Hype? Over promised Fantasy?
NO FREE plastic
NO $10brl
NO $10mill/yr processor
NO 70% uptime
NO SAIC validation based on FREE plastic
NO good naphtha
NO Madison County
NO CFP
NO PROFIT
NO COMMERCIAL VIABILITY
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and expose the perpetrators of this misguidance. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
That is the conclusion I came to as well.
As I can conclude from the information, patent application and results thus far, coupled with the excuses such as the delay that was caused because the feedstock 'got wet'... it is clear that the entire jbi process is entirely too restrictive.
Add in my chemical and polymer engineering background and I can draw a number of expert conclusions.
The FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM aside (that plastic has a greater value recycled than re-purposed) there is a significant issue with the design and process. It is simply too basic to deal with the complex variables. There are numerous chemical reactions that are occurring in pyrolysis. Jbi has not made any progress addressing any of these issues that have rendered past attempts at pyrolysis not commercially viable.
Agilyx, VADXX, and RES Polyflow have made substantial progress on these fronts and it seems that they are all happy with meager margins on a much wider potential input stream for specific purposes that do not rattle the cages of fuel companies. The jbi process is clearly light years behind.
The robust nature of Agilyx's input handling may give them a better possibility of utilizing waste or monifil plastic but even that has a tradeoff for them. To simplify the explanation- The addition of anything except plastic in their process displaces desired material which reduces efficiency. With narrow profit margins it is 'most optimal' to reduce this displacement as much as possible. For jbi, this isn't even on the radar as a problem yet... in fact they are looking at ways to purchase and add HTF which displaces plastic and decreases efficiency from a financial aspect.
There is so much more I can say here that would demonstrate the flaws in the jbi design, but I have better things to do than solve the technical problems of a company that clearly is not interested in those solutions. The simple conclusion is that jbi has not demonstrated that they are in fact attempting to solve the problems... just create the appearance of progress... how do I know, simple, They can't have water in the system... such a basic issue to solve but yet it is a problem for delay and not a solution for other problems that could be addressed with the addition (not subtraction) of water. This point alone provides significant insight as to their process, mindset and knowledge of what they are doing and where they are going.
If this was a real company interested in actual progress in this field I would be happy to consult them on solutions. Instead, I will attempt to help educate unknowing investors in order to help them make more sound decisions on why there is a guy behind a curtain and not a grand wizard.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and expose the perpetrators of this misguidance. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
You don't need to be convinced, the facts are in the 10K, in jbi's inability to demonstrate commercial viability, in the fact that they are resorting to compete for crayons as feedstock.
Simple Questions…
Not sure if I missed something here but what is all of this emphasis on processor 3?
I mean, if there are 2 processors that can’t produce fuel at a POSITIVE FUEL SALES level why is adding more processors going to help?
How does another processor help the cost of plastic magically become lower than the value of the fuel?
If I understand correctly, the 3rd processor has more pre-melts which require more energy to run which would lower the overall efficiency.
A third processor requires more employees and it seems the new revelation indicates more ‘skilled’ workers which adds even more cost.
The first two processors do not seem to be capable of achieving max throughput or uptime targets, with the need for shutdown so often they do not seem to be ‘continuous’ its more like an extended run batch process which is very inefficient with all of the heat loss and stresses, wear and tear from the heating and cooling cycles.
If the #1 and #2 processors are not capable of positive outputs why run them at all? Just to lose money but increase the output volume? Is this simply a lost leader to draw attention to the spin on volume and not consider the loss of profit/money?
Obviously the need to redesign the 3rd processor must mean that the 1 and 2 processors are not working as planned and touted some 4 years ago and as by the poor numbers in the 10K, so what is the basis of belief that the 3rd processor will meet expectations? Simply running with more up time does not mean anything except greater losses when the basic output numbers are negative. ie; produce 100 gallons and lose $2500 produce 10,000 gallons and lose $250,000.
What is all of this talk of CPF which is simply a fictional rally point. Unless the cost of feedstock and the cost to get it, store it, process it and the cost of running it through a machine all magically become lower than the value of the fuel that can be produced on a long term continuous basis… its just a mirage. CPF can be temporally fabricated but if it is not supported by the basic throughput numbers it is nothing more than an accounting trick, temporarily.
Unfortunately the company does not provide enough clear guidance to solidify any solid basis of proof of concept, but simply based on common sense there is no clear path to success here.
All of the talk of RockTenn seems to be a convenient fallback position. The belief needs to be manifested in order to offset the idea that if this doesn’t work in NF that it will be better in jax because there the plastic is allegedly free (even though there are issues and challenges that are yet to be addressed as to the factual cost of unearthing, processing and using that free feedstock). Without the belief, as hollow as it may be, that RockTenn is the land of milk and honey there is a real and present danger of more immediate failure if the NF site can not be demonstrated to be commercially viable. Jax is just a warm fuzzy fallback position of continued hope.
All of this goes back to the same basic focal point- Why not run one processor and demonstrate that it can be commercially viable? Or is it well know internally that this can not be done?
This goes back to my initial question- Why and how is processor 3 such an instrumental focus for any positive outcome?
Plastic is bottleneck not the processor or number of processors or the size or throughput of the processor(s).
Unless the process simply is not commercially viable because the total cost is greater than the value of the output.
Can anyone demonstrate, based on actual hard numbers provided by the company (not made-up numbers in a presentation based on wishful potential) that this is anywhere close to meeting the lofty expectations that were promoted 4 years ago? OR, lets scale back that request to simply demonstrate, based on actual hard numbers provided by the company (not made-up numbers in a presentation based on wishful potential) that this is anywhere close to being commercially viable and capable of only the most meager positive financial value.
As it currently stands, the lofty expectations that were promised 4 years ago, before the first processor was ever built, have been scaled back considerably. The fact that it is not possible to use FREE plastic because it is not ‘optimal’, consistent, reliable or continuously accessible has eliminated the initial basic ideal that this company is going to offer a solution to divert garbage into fuel. The fact that they are now in competition to buy plastic has completely changed the feel good ideal that this is an epic ‘green’ initiative to do the environment a favor. Now, with the knowledge that they are diverting bad crayons instead of waste plastic, which have a number of other potential uses already in place… they have become a niche based vulture instead of a environmentally friendly liken.
Paying for plastic means the playing field is severely restricted. It means that there is competition for feedstock. It means that it is much more volatile to an ever changing, constantly growing recycle movement that is now in direct competition. It means that the survivability and progress is no longer a controllable destiny as it was when the idea of free landfill bound plastic was conceived and is now gone.
The challenge to process free, unwanted garbage plastic was enough of a problem in itself. If it could be done by jbi to use in their processors in a commercially viable manner it surely could have been copied by a recycler to make more money. Since it can not be commercially viable for a recycler and it is finally admitted by jbi that it can not be done for their process, it vindicates the principle. This principle will also prove true at RockTenn. How do I know this, simple, if the monofil waste plastic can be economically processed to go into a jbi unit it can also be processed to be recycled for more money. Since it is not being done by RockTenn for profit how is it possible that jbi can come in and make it happen for less potential profit?
If any of these things could be done in a commercially viable manner we would have been doing them years ago. There is nothing here that demonstrates anything different than our conclusion that we arrived at 6 years ago, back when waste plastic was much more affordable for it to be done and the market had significantly more opportunity.
How is the perception of jbi progress in any way directly related to the hard numbers that show that this is not commercially viable?
Thoughts, answers?
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and expose the perpetrators of this misguidance. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Magic markers contain water based ink.
Please take note of the word 'water'.
(Why it is so difficult for some to understand that 2/3 water means raggertail has water in it.)
Let's step through this to make it easy for those that have trouble following along-
Water can not be put into a jbi unit because when heated past its boiling point it expands to 1600X.
magic markers contain water based ink
water based ink means it has water
water can not be put into the jbi units
the water based ink needs to be removed
yes, it is laughable
Yes, there are other potential chemical issues as well... every chemical used in the crayons and markers needs to be evaluated for the potential compounds and reactions that can occur when placed into a pyrolysis reactor. The potential to create undesirable outputs, fouled machines, bad naphtha and deadly results is ever present.
Diesel is wet, but it is not water.
It has a different boiling point and different expansion characteristics. The processors are apparently not designed to deal with water or the issue of delayed up time from the wet plastic would not have been an problem.
laughable that this is perplexing!
good grief
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to show how mentally inept the pumpers, like this one, are. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Sorting plastic for recycling is both an art and a science.
The initial issue here is why?
Why would plastic be mixed and in large quantity?
The easy answer is that the cost to separate it is prohibitive in relation to its value.
The second answer is that is was a mistake.
We run across accidentally mixed regrind all of the time, sometimes its a spill, or a operator error... other times its just laziness.
The problem here is that these are small quantities.
When plastic is processed for recycling care is taken to separate it into maximum value outputs.
In the case of jbi, sure, there may be opportunities to come across junk in small quantities... but the shipping cost offsets the value.
In the case of any large quantity of mixed plastic such as those jbi needs, there is undoubtedly a recycler willing to invest in a sorting process that makes it worth while at even the minimum value... which is MORE than the value of the fuel jbi can make.
This all goes back to THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM and the SEARCH FOR THE UNICORN as I have explained at great length.
This is why they have become so desperate as to have to tap into the massive supply of bad crayons in the world.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Makes you wonder why...
DRY ERASE MARKERS???
Can you see all 50 some jbi employees standing around pulling the WET ink felt and tips out of markers all day long! lolol
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and to reveal the truth. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
PLASTIC IS DIFFICULT TO EXTRACT FOR VALUE
For all of the reasons that it is difficult to obtain plastic from a waste stream for recycling would also apply to obtaining plastic from a waste stream to put it into jbi units.
The single biggest issue that creates the most troubling problem here is that jbi units can not handle mixed plastic or plastic with contaminants OR WET LANDFILL/MONOFILL PLASTIC. Putting plastic with contaminants into the machine will cause fouling, bad gasses, bad emissions, and variations and contaminants in the fuel output as well as complex changes on a molecular level of the fuel that can render it out of spec. or cause the water to expand at x1600 and cause an explosion.
In order to run the jbi machines it is necessary to sort the plastic and obtain a good, contaminant free stream of specific types of plastic. If you can achieve that you now have plastic that has value on the recycling market (more value than the fuel that you can make).
If you have a sorted, contaminant free supply of post industrial plastic, it is already worth more on the recycle market than it is worth trying to turn it into fuel. (and spending $55,000,000 and 4 years with no results)
Why the entire premise of jbi’s plastic to fuel is FALSE-
A > B
B – A = NEGATIVE RESULT
Plastic Value > Fuel Produced Value
Fuel Produced Value – Plastic Value = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
The first problem is in the design and permit restrictions…
The jbi machines can ONLY use #2 #4 #5 and #7 plastic (and only a very limited amount of #7).
This means the plastic MUST be SORTED unlike other companies that can handle ALL plastics.
When it comes to SORTED plastic, you get what you pay for.
If you want contaminated mixed plastic that will foul up your machines and break the set emission standards, sure you can get truckloads at (only) $500 a ton.
If you want good, sorted plastic you will pay an average of $750 a ton.
If you HAVE good sorted plastic you can SELL it on average of $750 a ton
(more than the value of the fuel you could make from it!)
There may be small random opportunities to stumble across good cheap plastic… but as soon as these are found there will be recyclers making sales calls to outbid jbi for that supply. If there is any sizeable supply, recyclers will already be on it and happy to pay just a little more than the value of the fuel that can be made from it because they can turn that supply into more money from the help of government RECYCLING SUBSIDIES that help them keep this out of the hands of companies that are trying to RE-PURPOSE that plastic which is what p2o is classified as.
If it (only) takes 8 lbs to make a gallon
and (on the best days) you get 6 US brls/ton (but jbi seems to now indicate that they can only get 4.4brls/ton)
IT WILL COST $125/brl JUST IN PLASTIC!
OR, another way to look at it- If you just sort and sell the good plastic that is needed to run the machines, you could MAKE MORE MONEY!
now add your $10 overhead cost (yeah, right, more like $55mill)
and you are selling $110/brl fuel for a $25 loss per barrel!!! (much greater loss at the newly revealed 4.4brls/ton!)
This math is not double dipping, or accounting for ANY of the long list of other issues previously pointed out AND it is the BEST CASE SCENARIO
(meaning min price for good sorted plastic, max yield for the process, round UP to make it juicier, minimum overhead cost, and at a sell price of $110/brl which is NOT what a WHOLESALE buyer would pay btw and certainly NOT what the jbi filings have revealed… $.95 naphtha isn’t even $40brl!).
And if I was RockTenn why on earth would I put plastic in a machine (that holds no IP advantage for my business model and could make me the target of an infringement lawsuit) to turn it into anything.... and lose time and money.... when I could sell the plastic on the open market FOR MORE MONEY and do nothing to it? Why does RockTenn landfill plastic now you ask… simple- IT COST MORE TO SEPARATE, PROCESS AND DRY IT THAN ITS WORTH! If their monofil 2/3 water plastic could be made useable for a jbi machine it could then be sold to a recycler for more money than the value of the fuel that can be made from it!
Just another additional added point to all of the other problems....
Landfill plastic cost time and money to extract it,
once its extracted it has MORE VALUE AS RECYCLED PLASTIC than it has turning it into fuel.
http://www.plasticsnews.com/resin/recycled-plastics/current-pricing
When you are permitted to ONLY use landfill plastic and you can ONLY put half of the landfill plastic in the machine or you create toxins and deadly corrosive gasses that will rust and foul up your machine and break emission regulations... then you have MORE PROBLEMS.
Once you spend the time and money to extract HALF of the landfill plastic that you can use, what do you do with the other half? Pay to put it in a landfill (ANOTHER UNMENTIONED ADDED COST) and if you actually started doing this on a regular basis or somehow managed to run at maximum capacity, in a years time you will have dumped well over 100,000 tons of UNUSABLE plastic into a landfill! (that would put you on the map as one of the biggest plastic contributors to negative environmental impact in the state of NY if not the country,… talk about bad PR for a company attempting to gain an earth friendly image)
I have not seen or heard of ANY plastic processing equipment or methods mentioned for JBI... if they were doing this it would be a good idea to let them know that they could qualify for recycling status if they sold the plastic that they separated... and between the break even cost of doing this and the recycling subsides they could get, they might just make a buck or two... oh, that's right, that would get used to pay for the dumping license they would need to get rid of that much BAD plastic that they can't use!
It has become obvious why making oil for only $10 a brl on a commercial level is a misguided fraud... jbi admitted this in the recent 10K!
And why waste management companies don’t find it commercially viable to sort and sell plastic headed to a landfill…
and after 4 years and $55mill it should have become even more obvious that...
MAKING FUEL FOR ONLY $10/brl WAS A LIE.
No more credibility to any of the $10mill/year processor
Obsolete and impossible to achieve third party reports based on bad numbers generated from the assumed use of FREE plastic.
No way to make fuel for $10brl when the plastic feedstock has to be paid for.
NO WAY TO MAKE A PROFIT WHEN THE FEEDSTOCK COST MORE THAN THE FUEL
(Why perpetual motion machines don’t work-
energy in = energy out with loss… ($55,000,000 loss and growing)
THERE IS NO WAY TO GET MORE OUT THAN YOU PUT IN!)
THE PLASTIC HAS A VALUE GREATER THAN THE VALUE OF THE FUEL jbi CAN PRODUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
and government recycling subsidies make sure that this holds true
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here and to reveal the truth. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
JBII Complete Summary DD
For those new to jbi or p2o please dig into this before you make any commitments.
Here is some helpful information that you should take into consideration when evaluating this company as an investment-
The company has made incredible claims of potential…
FREE plastic, only $10brl cost, $10mill/yr processors, 85% margins…
they sound too good to be true, which as you well know this is the first indication that you should be on guard.
They have not been able to achieve ‘instant profitability’ as they indicated repetitively four years ago.
They have not been able to ‘quickly’ build and ‘franchise’ sites in every major city as they promised in the beginning.
They have not been able to put units on boats, or in waste management facilities, no hoards of companies or government agencies lining up at their door to ‘work together’.
There isn’t even one single unit in full operation 4 years after they promised that they would be a spectacular overnight success.
They have recently admitted in their 10K that they must pay for plastic.
This means that all of the outlandish claims are gone.
No FREE plastic, No $10brl cost, No $10mill/yr processors, No 85% margins…
All of the promises are empty.
All of the outlandish claims- gone
All of the past pages of DD, validation, and dreams of huge profits- obsolete
They are struggling to find a way to turn a profit after 4 years and $55,000,000 of tinkering with a process that they promised was golden.
Consider this thought while doing DD- They are now trying to downplay the harsh reality by reverting to “well we lost the game but we played our best, look at all of the good plays we made in our embarrassing defeat, we’ll get them next year”. Investing in a loser is charity… that may be a noble ideal for life and people… but not in the stock market.
The problem is simple-
THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM
Plastic is worth more than the fuel they can make.
Plastic is not cheap or easy to come by or process.
Plastic has subsidies to encourage recycling NOT repurposing.
The fantasy this company and idea is built upon is just that, a warm fuzzy, perfect world fantasy. The idea that just anyone can come along and revolutionize three extremely complex fields of discipline and exceed the current state of the art in each of those fields is fantasy. True, advancement and innovation are possible and great things have come from dreamers, but this is not an example.
Look at the numbers.
Look at the timeline.
Look at the promises.
Look at the excuses.
These are all important indicators that can be used to gauge truthful disclosure.
When so many numbers are so far apart between promises and timelines and the excuses are in no way significant enough to outweigh the obvious… you can start to see the truth from the misrepresentations.
The truth is simple,
This company can not consistently and reliably obtain the massive quantities of plastic necessary at a price that is less than the value of the fuel that they can make.
All of the excuses, delays, and hocus pocus is an orchestrated act designed to buy time.
If you had a chicken that could lay golden eggs… wouldn’t you simply let it? Or do you run a side show, sell tickets and merchandise and waste a lot of time chasing a nickel when you supposedly have a machine that makes an endless supply of dollars.
It is important for potential investors to look at the current state of the industries involved. Ask questions like-
Why do the patent holders of this technology not act on it?
Why has the government and environmental agencies not helped?
Why isn’t there widespread recognition, awards, and prestige associated with this company?
Why is all of the positive DD coming from such a limited source?
Why is there so much effort displayed to warn potential investors of the issues?
Please, if you are reading this, I urge you to take heed, consider all of the facts and please do not fall for the perfect world fantasy.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Nah, its easy to explain...
An ego filled control freak thought he could steal an idea and pass it off as his own genius... he then forms a bunch of shell companies to defraud unknowing investors based on wildly outrageous claims that have never been close to achievable.
He goes on to get caught in fraud by misrepresenting the value of the company in order to juice-up value for the stock offering. As part of his punishment for fraud he is banned from being an officer (executive) of a company.
He continues to run the company and act as the president and ceo and even has an 'executive' assistant. His ego does not allow him to follow the court approved ruling and as such is caught up in another revealing indication of his intent. A mad scramble is harshly and extensively executed complete with supporting banter.
The reason for all of the discussion... simple... If the truth is made known that ego is bigger than compliance there is the potential for legal repercussions that can open the door to further investigation and penalty.
Risking the 'appearance' of non-compliance is only one of many mounting issues that can tip the scales in favor of fraud on multiple levels.
Dealing with the fact that the company has admitted to a complete change of course that in no way represents the outlandish claims that the company sold stock to believing investors of outlandish, unachievable guidance, is a major issue that can be looked into further if there is probable cause.
In this case... getting a parking ticket is the minor offense that draws attention to the fact that the car has different plates on the front and back... which draws a little more attention and brings about the notice of blood on the floorboard... soon the body in the trunk becomes a bit of a problem.
see, simple
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to reveal the fraud that this company is perpetrating. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Some may call it versatile... most will call it desperate.
So now that jbi admitted that they can not use FREE plastic and can not make fuel for $10brl they have to search far and wide for feedstock that they must pay for... like bad crayons.
Any thoughts on why jbi has to pay for bad crayons instead of being able to process FREE plastic at $10brl?
sad
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to expose the scam artists that have lied to defraud investors. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
What is preplexing is how jbi can spend years pushing the idea that they are going to do this mighty and noble task of ridding the world of waste plastic so it doesn't go into a landfill... and now they are paying to take off color crayons out of the hands of underprivileged kids.
They must have paid a little more than what Crayola could have received for the tax write off for donating their off-white and not so indigo blue to Phillipe and Swantea.
Oh how the story has changed.
Perplexing and saddening.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to point out how much these fraudsters have been misleading people into believing outright lies. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of complete garbage information that is passed off as fact to defraud investors. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
From the 10K page 38-
The increase in fuel revenue in 2012 as compared to 2011 was mainly due to a full year of operating the processor, as opposed to a limited amount of processing time in 2011.
So, 317,224 gallons is the result of a “full year of operating the processor” …
Selling each gallon at $3.00 doesn’t even come up to $1mill…
That’s less than 10% of the Juggernaut $10mill/year that we have been ever so reminded of.
Any thoughts on why jbi’s idea of a “full year of operating the processor” is 90% below touted expectations?
-90% how perplexing…
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to blow the cover on these lying punks that spew false bs to defraud investors. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Here is why the explanation is not plausible...
Who is responsible for signing the doc, the COT or the CEO?
So the sig block was wrong... or
The COT acting as CEO is the wrong person signing the correct sig block?
This qualifies as intent.
If jb resigned as CEO 6 months ago why is he still acting as CEO... doing the job of the CEO?... or is that all for show?
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to be sure that people like jb are revealed as the scam artists that they are. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
I didn't see any metric to dollar conversion in there (but then again i really didn't bother to read it but thanks for spending all that time putting it together ;)
The numbers still don't make any sense!
and basing more numbers on bad numbers doesn't help explain how -
A > B
B - A = Negative result.
Fuel sales - Plastic cost = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended to show how idiotic these shills are. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
I Prefer Reality to Made Up Numbers
I don't remember seeing the reference to the cost or time breakdown for using a Plastic dehydrator in the SAIC report...
Can you please provide a link?
Was that factored into the $10brl cost?
or is that part of value add of the FREE plastic?
more added steps
more added cost that reduces margins
$750 a ton is starting to sound like a bargain for plastic
Good grief.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Does anyone understand the logistics here?
I prefer more meaningful and accurate analysis...
but no action, progress or concrete plan that demonstrates or lays out any steps to move forward...
The reference is dated December 31, 2011
Not a shred of progress on this 'golden opportunity'???
Hmmmm, wonder why not?
Maybe they are still looking for unicorn plastic so they can make fuel for $10 a brl.
What are your thoughts on why jbi can not make fuel for $10/brl after all of the promises, SAIC validations, $10mill/yr processor graphics and repeated daily reinforcement reminders?
No more $10/brl
How perplexing!
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate and help offset the continued barrage of misleading and obscured information that I have identified here. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Hey LR...