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I am just guessing voodoo, that it was something the judge and Rosen and possibly a few others could see, but no one else unless Rosen came to a decision to keep the battle going. All speculation on my part.
Been busy lately and not keeping up very well with what has been posted here, but it seemed like an either/or for Rosen when Susman/EC wanting to discuss the document and the examiner at the same time.
Seems Susman/EC wanted to discuss the sealed document and the Examiner in court at the same time if I remember correctly. If that is the case, then I suspect they felt pretty sure the other parties would succumb and say there is no sense in going for the examiner. Hence, I believe a settlement is in the making. IMO
Remington, I have to think alone the same lines. It's hard to believe that attorneys are coming out of chambers talking to strangers about anything remotely close to what was said in there. But as you said, I'd love to be wrong.
Desperado, no one for the UQ’s?
I would feel uneasy with Mordicai in that position due to a one liner at the end of one of his previous posts where he stated; commons need to get out while they're ahead.
I have nothing personal against Mordicai, and really appreciate his sharing of knowledge, but since his personality and agenda are unknown to me, I can not be sure he wouldn’t sell commons out as long as the pq’s are good for the taking.
If they are not forthcoming with documents, than there seems to be something the examiner can get to expose wrongdoing. I believe the opposition is holding out with only one hope, and that is getting an examiner that is corruptible; a last chance survival play. IMO.
This is my concern. Our Judge is being forced to make a ruling; something she was hoping to avoid. I hope she has the metal to do what is right. She is ruling on a very powerful case of corruption. Possibly threatened along with family (too many movies on my part). Her constituent’s would like the high profile case, but at the same time not wanting to be in her shoes. Although allowing EC, no rulings on SJ, SM, or examiner to date hoping (praying) parties would come to an understanding, and I wonder if Rosen is somehow playing on a possible fear she may have as he knows the por’s are not flying. On the flip side, Rosen knows he has possibly played his last hand and she has to go with the examiner or risk being seen as just another puppet. What is going on here? Why not appease all classes. JPM can give 29 Bil in bonuses, but do not seem to care if this goes away. Pushing her to bring examiner in makes one wonder if they truly believe smoking gun and excess funds will not be found. SS has the Judge in a corner; Rosen’s boxed in and running low on oxygen. This is an amazing spectacle and am glad to be an observer…..if only from my computer. Happy 4th everyone.
Excellent post.
Thanks Diane, could be helpful to someone. hopefully not deleted before others get a chance to see it.
aladin61, lol, we have at least two things in common. eom
Wow…!!! Lots of speculation and high flying numbers over the weekend. I think most all believe that something good is starting to happen because Susman and team was not pushing strong for the examiner… Yet.
Taking Rosen’s past games into account I do not think EC/Susman, although saying no guarantees would “not” push for the examiner if they did not believe Rosen was finally going to start showing some consideration, and that tells me they have something to apply some pressure with.
I am in the camp that believes it will be small to start with as in getting all of the nol’s and the 4 billion back to put A>L, but at least it will be a start.
After stating equity is not in the money on too many occasions, I do not know how Rosen is going to get away with this without showing he was deliberately lying; possibly by hoping Susman will “discover” something where he can say, “Oh we did not know that”, which also would be a lie.
Hang in there everyone, it is happening. JMO
Hey REAL, I do not like the last name of the guy that wrote this.
I do not know anybody personally on this board, but just from what I have read, there didn't seem to be a plan until Lazer stirred up the bee's nest. Now all of a sudden there is a plan? I tip my hat to you Lazer, if nothing else you got them to come out of the woodwork.
I know nothing compared to the rest of you here, but common sense makes me question if the AV is so great what is the problem with funding. The Government would want it, Wall Street would want it. There is billions there.
Yeah, oilstrike said he low balled the number.
Rickszy was just having some play time.
Nice post xoom, I agree with everything. Rich getting richer is fine if done properly, but to hop on a dozer and plow your way through, with no concern to the destruction you leave behind, is where I hope those responsible get their just reward. Keep feeding our honorable judge the information she needs Mr. Susman.
Our country really needs to get a confidence boost right now, and those above the law need to be smacked down for their corruptive ways. That is the only way people will start to believe that what is good for one is good for the other.
LOL, good one. I guess I should have said a quote from the "movie" Seabiscuit.
A quote from Seabiscuit in describing the building of Rome, “brick by brick my assistant, brick by brick.”
Totally agree, the gauntlet has been thrown down. Mary is finally fed up with Weil/Rosen’s game of trying to give everything to the creditors while milking 20 months of fees and getting absolutely nowhere. It is so clear where this is going and I cannot believe the pps is still where it’s at.
Bottom line, everyone who objects has something to hide.
I agree since last I heard the Australian fascist Murdock owns Fox. See Voodoos post # 204575
Thanks Lawrence, Why do you suppose the judge allows this 3.1a to stay hidden?
Lawrence:
Susman did not even bother with a reply because of its futility and waste of estate resources. Should this POS POR be confirmed and put to a vote it is exactly where He wants it.
Wow, Killinger had to be extremely frustrated. It is obvious they intentionally set those bank runs in motion.
The planting of the seed crystal that shattered WMI. Had to be Paulson somewhere in the mix in this and corrupt Christopher playing along. Short the hell out of it, let the runs begin and it is all yours Jamie. Love, Sheila
Thanks WaS, I hope you get to play a part in the movie someday: a movie with a positive outcome where the audience cheers for the little guy/gals in the end. The twists and turns with corruption exposed could make for an edge of the seater.
Gold, didn't we need to already have them by a certain date, a date which I can not remember. Nice to see no tanking stock.
If she does not give Solomon time do his job and demand the documentation is there for them to decipher, especially after the “don’t test the courts patience” remark, than something is wrong. I am starting to get concerned that she allowed the EC and SH meeting just to cover herself. She seems a little too complacent with Rosen. That corrupt “taking care of the good ol’ boys” feeling is starting to set in.
Oldie but goodie;
"The legal claims of the debtors that would be released by the settlement are among the most valuable assets of the debtors," Susman said. "This is not the time to shoo away the owners of the company."
http://lehmanlotto.blogspot.com/2010/04/wamu-shareholders-can-pursue-annual.html
http://www.arentfox.com/publications/index.cfm?content_id=1078&fa=legalUpdateDisp
Burden of Proof
Even though Section 1104 of the Bankruptcy Code provides for the appointment of an examiner to investigate allegations of fraud, dishonesty, and gross mismanagement, mere allegations of misconduct will not suffice. There must be a factual basis supporting the need for an independent investigation.
“The appointment of an examiner is a cautious, intermediate procedure which is more economical than the appointment of a trustee.” In re Gilman Services, 46 B.R. at 328.
The Delaware bankruptcy courts historically have refused to treat Section 1104(c)(2) as mandatory. See In re 5A Telecommunications, Inc., Case Nos. 97-2395 to 97-2401 (PJW) (Bankr. D. Del. March 27, 1998). Explicitly or implicitly, these courts have embraced the basic tenet of statutory construction that “shall” can be construed as “may.”
If Judge Mary is a proponent of fair play an examiner will be put in place due to “testing the courts patience” by Rosen and others still hiding information, otherwise she is just another “clubby”.
Desperado, nice post, has a calming effect.
"The only way the FDIC can sign off to any POR would require all parties to sign off because any of the aggrieved parties can file criminal fraudulent transfer or civil charges in a favorable court and the so-called discovery document would be used against them."
I like the thought of a favorable court. I wonder in this day and age if it is possible to find an unbiased jury that is neutral on the big banks.
200,000 here. root em' out. thanks
I know that I’m trying to find only positive things here, but anyway……
Let’s See: I don’t know whether, I’m not going to accept the debtors argument or the committee’s argument regarding delay here being a negative, I’m not sure how quickly the debtor honestly can proceed with its proposed plan, but at any rate I think there is sufficient time, should be sufficient time for the EC to conduct whatever investigation it feels is relevant. So, I will deny the motion.
I would like to think she is telling Rosen and the SH’s that this plan sucks.
And asking John Clarke of FDIC
THJMW: “You want to remind us of what you said then.”
We said that there were still significant open issues with the parties to the proposed settlement that we would continue to have discussions with those parties, we have not yet resolved those issues and there are other conditions to settlement that still haven’t been satisfied, but we’re working with the goal of trying to achieve all that and get the proposed settlement agreed to and presented to this court. Thank You.
Again, I would like to think the “other conditions” as being SH’s
Good luck all
Diane, after you brought that up I re-read and I believe you are correct. thanks
I guess what really throws me is the “only” in would “only” benefit
future parties, but not benefit the parties in this case........", because if the future parties she is referring to are the shareholders and the “parties in this case” are the ones that hired Weil, then it does not make sense, because if the future parties are taken care of then the parties in this case will also be taken care of in full, if in fact a settlement trickles down to commons.
"..........I don’t think it is fair to the creditors in this case, to be saddled with the costs of an investigation into systemic problems that would only benefit
future parties, but not benefit the parties in this case........"
Climber, nice heartfelt post, but……
".......First it’s clear to me that this debtor has been investigated to death and I’m sure that even the most experienced and talented examiner that the UST could appoint would NOT “find any stone unturned.” ............."
I hope she is saying the dirt has been discovered…put it in front of me so that I have something to rule on. Where have any of the facts of a solvent company been put in front of the judge by the EC in open court? I think the judge is getting frustrated with the ongoing time and nothing put in front of her. All we have heard from is Rosen, he seems to be the only one that is making a numbers statement which we all know is stuck on A<L. Susman, granted he just came on board, put Willingham on the stand to ask about the shares he held, but that in itself won’t get the job done and hopefully he will have some meat and potatoes at the next hearing. We do not know how long before Solomon makes his figures known, but I at least hope Susman can put forth something in open court that shows the illegal nature of this act.
"..........I don’t think it is fair to the creditors in this case, to be saddled with the costs of an investigation into systemic problems that would only benefit
future parties, but not benefit the parties in this case........"
This paragraph above confuses me. Who are the creditors she is referring to, is it the shareholders or those that hired Weil? Who are the future parties, is it the shareholders she is referring to here or is it those that will benefit by getting the shares in a new company if this POR is signed off on? “But not benefit the parties in this case…..” , again who is she referring to…..I assume it to be those that hired Weil, but I do not know. Any clarification would be appreciated.
That is it in a nutshell. Susman going for an examiner and probably expecting a denial was his way of stepping up the pace. FDIC/JPM now will expect a different lawsuit for the illegal nature of the seizure if the POR as it stands is accepted. The thought of a trial with jury (against Susman) is where I believe a just settlement will come into play. They would not want that…plus think of the unwanted exposure.IMO
Susman Godfrey LLP
INDIVIDUALS: Houston-based Stephen Susman is an ‘astonishing litigator and trial lawyer’ who represents both plaintiffs and defendants, and who acted for Northrop in its suit against McDonnell Douglas over an F-18 jet fighter. Lee Godfrey also comes highly recommended for headline antitrust litigation.
I wonder if Susman had a feeling the judge would deny the examiner but that requesting one would give her the opening to say the EC will look into it…..so supply the information. I have heard it said here that Susman is working on a contingency basis, and if so, I think our timeframe has just been shortened for a settlement. The less time spent the more Dollars per hour he makes.
Awesome as always. You may have Susman knocking on your door seeking a new investigator.
I read somewhere that the two Paulson's are not family related in any way. Maybe in a financial way.
They don't have 17B. This is part of an email sent to me about breaking up the big banks.
America's four largest banks - Citibank, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, and WellsFargo - have assets of $7.4 trillion, equal to 52% of our entire GDP.
Rosen is playing the psychology game folks; don’t let him get to you. If something gets repeated over and over again eventually you can make people think there might be some truth to it and it seems to be starting to get to a few already. One person in particular who I never thought would fall for it had predicted $12+ as long as I can remember.
That is how the mainstream media attacks when they have an agenda to fulfill. A certain president wanted to go into Iraq awful bad, but did not have the public backing and we all know what happened next…..day in and day out all we heard was terrorist…mushroom cloud...terrorist… mushroom cloud…and they finally won the people over. Hold tight, things have never looked better IMO.