Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Sounds like the makings of an insurance scam and a good story as to why the dead chicken can't lay golden eggs. Not that it could when it was alive but a rather clever way to end the scam.
Remember... plastic that is needed for these machines is worth more recycled into plastic than it is worth converting it to fuel...
the end
No stickies? I got a tip to check this one out, anyone have a quick summary? tnx
Im glad i was wrong and i'll admit it...
Now just hope the deal gets signed and VNDM stays at .003 until it gets there.
Sorry for the venting earlier but this was really starting to feel like a con job... could still be but there isn't much to bitch about when your in the green.
So what does that mean to you?
What i take from that is that the company will have a signed deal by June 1. Actually i seem to remember a statement that donell made that indicated that the deal would be done sooner.
So im guessing that if there is no news on Monday that the deal was signed then there will be a lot of people that will say they have been lied to and in fact todays news solidifys that particular lie while drawing serious scrutiny to her entire reputation and character.
Not pring a statement that the deal will be delayed until next week/month is bad enough but no closed deal on monday coupled with this email and its pointed positive spin statements and I would have to say this is a case of "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"
That's all well and good speculation but what does that do for an aviation company that is struggling and has little capital entering into a completely new industry with nothing unique or proprietary?
I don't mean to sound so negative here but it is rather frustrating when you start to realize that things aren't adding up and the story is slowly changing with a bunch of people pumping it up to sound way better than it is.
My single biggest issue right now is that the current story is-
The company is about to sign a deal to (do what?) a grow store that is doing $mill of current business.
Lets talk facts here, it will cost multiple $mill to buy a business outright that has that kind of revs unless there is an undisclosed issue. If they are "partnering" with them whats the cut vs cost? how does it make money? If they are entering into some other arrangement ... how? at what cost? at what actual revs/profit?
No multi mill co is just going to fall in their lap for free and make them instant profit to the tune of $mills. If that were true we would all get in line.
Thanks for the vindication... and as i said i really would like to see this go up since i have a good chunk in the game.
Now the extreme point of view would be that they need an SEC law firm because they cough wind of a suspension or investigation.
Lets face it they initially started this with news of purchasing a pot shop and since that didn't pan out it seems logical that this could be investigated as a scam mmj play which the SEC is hot for right now.
Please don't get me wrong, I would like to see this go up, but quite honestly I believe everyone that is watching this is waiting on news of a signed deal by June 1st or as many have reported, earlier.
Problem here is that VNDM has halted this at .0013 and it is beginning to look like a lot of people pumping just to move diluted shares.
The last few times news was released the price went down.
The way the news reads it sounds like this is just now happening, that they just hired this firm. Then to state that they are on target, what does that mean? Are they closing the deal with their just now retained law firm? On Saturday? What?
Why report this instead of reporting a closed deal?
So what, is everyone (that is pumping this) thinking that this new firm is going to close the deal next week? Really? Ok, so why not say that? Simple, because they need to say something and if they had something better to say they would have... but if they dont, this is what is said. A new law firm that is just retained is not going to get up to speed and close a deal over the weekend or in a week.
The bigger issue is that they are not an mmj company and are not about to be... grow equipment and pot are completely different products with completely different laws, rules and investor attraction... nothing here classifies this as an mmj company and the share price shows that. Any legit mmj company about to close a deal would be seeing a huge amount of volume with a steady increase in price.
Oh yes, the fake wall story... the evil fake wall people are at it again spending their days messing with joe shareholder for no other reason but for a little fun. Get real here everyone has seen order after order go through at .0013 and the 10K never moved... its a fake wall with real characteristics that eats buys.
Another thing that really makes this feel fake is the amount of positive spin that is put on everything, the amount of defense that is put up against anything negative. Its one thing to promote your position and protect your investment but there is a point in time when it becomes clear that there are paid touts that are pitching the good news and defending against anything negative.
I'm sorry I just had to get this out in the open but until a signed deal is the news headline this does not seem to be going anywhere except down and even then reselling some plastic boxes and sun lamps does not make this a huge gain mmj play.
All just my venting opinion.
This has to be the worst possible news that could have been released.
Plus with VNDM on the ask at .0013 for 10K,
Hate to say it but this is about to nose dive imo.
It's oil before it is distilled in the distill tanks. If this is redirected before it is distilled into fuel then its not only htf but its preheated!
The cost of htf is directly proportional to the output value. The higher cost the better the output and less need to worry about potentially harmful contaminants that cost a lot to deal with.
When its all said and done its a wash at best on cost+process cost to output value. But it sure boosts output numbers when you need to sell a story.
And the second was the "heat transfer fluid"
They were paying for "oil" to run through the "processor" using the premise that it was "necessary" for even heating of the plastic in order to "aid" the "efficiency" of the process when in fact it was just an easy way to boost the output numbers.
Here is why that too was just another unfounded claim-
Because they were making oil (heat transfer fluid),
all they had to do is redirect a portion of the output back into the processor to use it as "heat transfer fluid" and there would have been no need to pay for it.
Of course this would have greatly reduced the output numbers and the "efficiency" and the true lack of a novel process would have been revealed much sooner. (but they needed to keep the dream alive somehow to squeeze out as much money as they could from shareholders that refused to believe the math or the reality of this epic fail).
Reality is simple, plastic that is needed for this process is worth more on the open market as plastic than it is worth as fuel.
And if the truth was any different they would be running these "great" machines continuously and turning a profit selling the output.
The chicken that lays golden eggs needs to be fed golden corn that costs more than the eggs its lays.
Where is the list of do gooder penny stock companies?
Exactly my point.
Go back and read my posts from a year ago its all black and white and has played out exactly as I have detailed in those posts.
P2O is not commercially viable and if it was you could make way more selling the plastic as plastic... for recycling... but if recyclers are throwing in the towel... then P2O is KO before it ever had a chance to surrender. (as you can clearly see here).
Doc G
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
That's the spirit.... f the environment we're green and that's what the money says
it's of, jbi isn't paying for it... crayola and the environment are
colorcycle away... spend 4x more on shipping than can be made
burn 2000 gallons of fuel to make just one barrel
and do it all under the false banner of environmental goodness
GOOD GRIEF!!!
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Lesson Plan
How about if we teach the kids that it requires 2276 gallons of fuel to be burned in order for jbi to make a gain of just one barrel.
This could be a lesson in math-
What percentage of fuel is burned for jbi to make 2%?
Or maybe a lesson in science-
What negative environmental impact does Crayola support to make 1 barrel of fuel by burning 2276 gallons shipping their old markers across the country?
Or maybe a lesson in sociology-
What is the Corporate mindset in polluting the environment and wasting resources in the name of advertising green technology?
Perhaps a lesson in art-
ok class, draw a circle the size of a dime in the center of your paper... color the circle in green... now color the rest of the page black.. that is how green ColorCycle is to the environment.
Obscene Green Machine!
obscene- disgusting and morally offensive, especially through an apparent total disregard for others' rights or natural justice
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Three Layers of Doom
looking at it as if this was really a company and not a scam
Layer One-
JB and JBI have done everything possible to fail all on their own. In no way should there be any reason to look any further than the direction, choices, design, structure, management and daily activity that has been carried out by the founder and the company. It is failing because there was not a single machine running 24/7. A machine was not running 24/7 because it cant. End of story.
Layer Two-
Terribly bad manipulative investors that spend all of their time and resources targeting this one little startup company with a small cap. They are driven by ‘secret forces of evil’ and will stop at nothing to rid the world of jbi.
Even if it were true that nss or mob investors were ‘working’ companies for profit on the slide… it makes no sense to stick with one and hammer it to death… seems to me that it would make more sense to pick the low lying fruit (companies that are failing by their own accord) and just bump them a few times then move on to the next easy target. This idea of sticking with it to be sure that jbi is left for dead is just not logical from a work/risk/reward ratio. Now I am no expert on this topic but just common sense kicks in here.
Layer Three-
If by some incredible chance jbi was legit, didn’t have an idiot running the show, didn’t make all the wrong choices, didn’t take the wrong paths, didn’t have to pay for plastic, didn’t leave plastic out in the rain and actually got to a point that they could make this commercially viable AND they did not screw-up so much as to make themselves low hanging fruit and have the evil people attack them because they made themselves ripe for the picking …. Well then the REAL threat would come into play… The ‘powers that be’ would swoop in completely stealth and put an end to it.
So you see, regardless of the reason, self inflicted, evil threat or ‘powers that be’… jbi will not make fuel from plastic for a profit. So far it is obvious that they have not been able to get past the first layer and it doesn’t look like they will.
P2O is not commercially viable
And there are plenty of ‘powers that be’ that will make sure of it
Value it any way conceivable and in the end it will be made to be 0
They are doing it themselves
But if they were competent enough to actually do it
It would just go away
Much better for the ‘ptb’ to have a public display of failure by jbi’s own doing
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
CRAYOLA Shipping Cost Update- JBI MELTDOWN
Following is a collection of information and insight that uses the Crayola ColorCycle program as a perfect example of why jib is unable to make p2o work and it explains the simple formula below-
A > B
B – A = NEGATIVE RESULT
Feedstock Cost > Fuel Produced Value
Fuel Produced Value - Feedstock Cost = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
As we can see from the above equation, the cost of the feedstock is greater than the value of the fuel that can be made from it. In the case of the Craola program, if we set aside all of the costs for overhead, operations, labor, infrastructure and processing, and we simply focus on the shipping cost alone… we can derive that the cost of shipping alone is an average of 4X the value of the fuel that can be produced.
Furthermore, the environmental impact has a negative net result.
When we look at recycling versus re-purposing (p2o is not classified as recycling since it removes the feedstock from the cycle) we can see that the end result of recycling is a substantially higher value end product that survives to continue in the cycle. Even with this higher value, recycling is a challenge in most cases and would not be possible without programs that subsidize its existence.
The conclusion that can be drawn from the Crayola ColorCycle program is the same conclusion that can be drawn for the entire p2o process of making fuel from plastic. The challenge of acquiring, shipping, processing, and paying for the overhead needed to carryout the process poses a substantially weighted financial burden that renders the p2o of fuel commercially unviable.
When the cost is greater than the value of the production of fuel there is no profit.
When the shipping cost alone are 4X more than the value of the fuel that can be produced… the process is not only commercially unviable but it poses a overall negative impact.
When more fuel is burned than produced, the process is a negative impact on the environment.
MORE SIMPLE MATH
It would be a good idea to do a little math before diving head first into shallow water.
Has anyone considered the logistics?
Let's face it... schools are money strapped as it is... who is going to pay for the shipping of boxes of used markers?
Even the largest flat rate box through USPS will cost $16.
Try shipping them through UPS and do the math....
How much is this great idea going to cost???
Seems like $750 a ton for plastic is a bargain by the time you consider all of the individual boxes of what 10 or 20 lbs each?
Get excited about a good idea before putting a pen to paper... par for the course at jbi... sounds like touting $10brl all over again... oh, wait, we forgot to do the math... ok it's $87 a barrel not $10. Free markers from schools means $10 a barrel... oops, when we account for shipping makes it $132brl!
FINANCIALLY UNFEASIBLE
To ship a 25lb box of used markers from California to NF = $28
To ship a 25lb box of used markers from Buffalo NY to NF = $15
The bigger the box the higher the cost.
Even at just $.50 a pound for shipping the cost per ton is $1000!
How does this make sense???
That's not counting all of the logistics of handling potentially thousands of individual small boxes coming in the door.
A non profit could possible gain some form of support/relief to pull this off but a commercial company that profits from the use of collecting old markers and crayons and gives nothing in return? Most school recycling programs provide some form of financial benefit for the effort and goodwill... where is this going to come from when the company is attempting this as a for profit program?
How does crayola benefit?
If the program was setup as a recycling basis at least they could gain a recycling subsidy for the effort... but that wouldn't cover the shipping cost. If they (crayola) thought this through they would have created this type of program with a recycler and set it up as a profit center to get the subsidy and sell the plastic... or did they and found that it was not economically viable?
So jbi comes along, without doing the math, and offers them a "hey, we'll pay for shipping to our site so you can offer a re-purposing program". Sounds like another ill planned RockTenn deal... jbi pays all the cost and ends up with another commercially un-viable disaster.
The only thought is that plastic at $750 a ton is a bargain when you consider the shipping and logistics cost.
Even at $.50 a pound just for shipping... the used crayons and markers are going to cost $1000 per ton!
With 4.4 brls a ton of production and at $110 a brl (which isn't happening due to that pesky bad naphtha issue)
You are looking at a loss of $516 per ton!
The more desperate jbi becomes for plastic,
the more obvious it becomes,
that p2o is-
NOT COMMERCIALLY VIABLE!
and the entire idea was half baked from the beginning
Thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________
In response to my numbers being skewed-
Where are the numbers skewed?
Who is going to pay the shipping?
For every dollar spent to get the used markers/crayons to jbi less than $.25 could be gained in fuel.
Spend $1 in shipping to make $.25 in fuel...
Waste fuel getting it to jbi...
If all of the math was done here I bet it takes more fuel pound for pound to get plastic to NF than they can make from it!
This is the FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM in its most basic form!!!
To ship 1 ton of used markets to NF will cost MORE than the value of the fuel that can be made. JUST IN SHIPPING COST!
If it is not completely obvious from this crayola situation I am not sure how much more blatant it could possibly be.
P2o works very well...
but it is not commercially viable!
end of story.
HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
That is the key question.
As for jbi the answer is simple-
From one ton of plastic they can make 4.4brls of fuel.
Logic…Reality
Something new occurred to me here…
HTF – what is it?
Liquid Hydrocarbons (oil)
When plastic is melted and turns to liquid then it is cracked… it turns into liquid hydrocarbons (oil).
Interesting point in the patent application states that some of the heavier liquid output (oil) is redirected back into the input to be recracked (into shorter, lighter fuel).
Logic-
Just some basic logic here-
If they are currently redirecting liquid output (oil) through the system already, what is the need to add more?
The output is already hot so it would be better at doing the job of ‘heat transfer’ since it is reusing heat already in the system anyway and there would be no need to have to heat fresh HTF (oil) that is introduced at room temperature.
What is the reason for HTF again? Oh, yeah, to fill in the spaces between the plastic with a liquid that can transfer the heat more efficiently… (really??? Logically I have to say it again… really?)
Conclusion-
I have to revert back to my past conclusion here since logic does not seem to apply in any way that would or could justify a delay or redesign or addition of or change to permits, equipment, tanks, piping or anything that could slow down/change/delay production, and that is again a very simple and logical explanation-
HTF was the perfect way to increase output volume numbers, …period.
It serves no purpose that is not already addressed with the hot HTF that the unit is already producing and being run through the system. It is already designed, permitted and plumbed in the system based on the patent application so why cause any delay… unless of course a more logical answer is that they need delays for more obvious and logical reasons.
Reality-
If you apply basic logic and the bs test (bs test = statement + time) to this company and its timeline you can make some very solid conclusions.
All of the initial hype was bs as proven by time
All of the initial numbers were bs as proven by time
All of the technology (being any diff than paralysis) is bs as proven by time
All of the promises of CFP were bs as proven by time
All of the stock chatter/hype/spam/bragging was bs as proven by time
All of the third party valuations were bs as proven by time
All of the current state of functionality ‘but this is a work in progress, and it can’t be perfect right out of the gate’ (yet the statements of functionality at that time were not true and are still not even close) is bs as proven by time
It all goes back to the single question- If it worked why hasn’t there been a single machine running 24/7 for the last 4 years producing? There have been plenty of statements of $10mill/year and references to third party validation that claims that the machines as tested (no new design, updates, revisions, htf or super #3 but the old processor as tested that have been completed and functional for years) were proven to function and produce $10mill/yr of fuel… Obviously bs as proven by time. (who sits on a machine or 2 that were proven by a third party to produce $10mill… Seriously, is this a complete lack of proper management (glorious management also proven to be bs by time) or is this proof that the glorious third party validation is bs as proven by time?
Any way you look at it it is logically a very clear reality… time has made the bs clear.
There is no need for HTF except to boost volume numbers and act as a convenient excuse for more delay.
more bs to be proven by time
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Lesson Plan
How about if we teach the kids that it requires 2276 gallons of fuel to be burned in order for jbi to make a gain of just one barrel.
This could be a lesson in math-
What percentage of fuel is burned for jbi to make 2%?
Or maybe a lesson in science-
What negative environmental impact does Crayola support to make 1 barrel of fuel by burning 2276 gallons shipping their old markers across the country?
Or maybe a lesson in sociology-
What is the Corporate mindset in polluting the environment and wasting resources in the name of advertising green technology?
Perhaps a lesson in art-
ok class, draw a circle the size of a dime in the center of your paper... color the circle in green... now color the rest of the page black.. that is how green ColorCycle is to the environment.
Obscene Green Machine!
obscene- disgusting and morally offensive, especially through an apparent total disregard for others' rights or natural justice
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
REALITY CHECK
1 class of art students = 25 pupils
1 box of 16 Crayola markers each
25 * 16 = 400 markers
.2oz per marker * 400 = 5lbs (new marker weighs .3oz… used [dried out] approx .2oz)
FedEx fuel usage in a year = 1,227,290,000 gallons
Number of packages FedEx delivers in a year = 2,737,500,000
Average fuel burned per package = 0.448325 gallon
Number of 5lb packages of used Crayola markers to make a ton = 400
Amount of fuel FedEx burns to deliver 1 ton of used markers to NF = 179.33 gallons
Number of gallons of fuel that jbi can p2o from 1 ton of used markers = 182.6 gallons
I STAND CORRECTED, MY APOLOGIES
Jbi can produce 3.27 gallons of fuel more than what is burned in shipping from each ton of used markers.
I incorrectly stated that it takes more fuel to ship the used Crayola markers to NF than they could make… as it turns out it does not.
It only takes 5076 art classes worth of used markers to make 1 barrel of jbi fuel…
And it only requires FedEx to burn 2276 gallons of fuel for jbi to make a total of 1 barrel more.
And I thought I was on to something when I said this p2o thing was a waste of time and resources… burn 98% to make 2%... What a brilliant green inactive Crayola and jbi have conspired!
The Obscene Green Machine!
Really knocks my socks off!
GOOD GRIEF!!!!
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
The writings on the wall…
It seems that my presence is not necessary at this point although I figured I’d pop in to clear the air of rumors that I was forcefully suppressed... if you know what I mean.
My main contributions were from a technical standpoint, but it seems the problems have diverted to a deeper, more critical issue, the company/management/direction... which seem to be a much bigger issue than the obvious facts regarding the failing technological endeavor. This is of course looking at it as an actual company interested in carrying out a business plan based on a realistic set of goals. However, once you observe the big picture and look at the evidence, it is more plausible to conclude ulterior motives. I would say that the term 'scam' comes to mind... however, the fact is that in the eyes of the SEC... this is not a scam. The reason is simple- The company has stated in black and white that many detailed points can cause it to fail. Add a bit of manufactured honest enthusiasm along with some expensive props and you have a perfectly legal venture that is free to play out and willfully separate money from those that chose to offer it and those that divert it to people directing the show. (fraud is illegal, scams are possible, when you go to the movies are you scammed into 'believing'? but yet you willfully trade money for the 'belief'... well with this venture you certainly have a lot of entertainment value here) Success or failure is of no consequence to those that are gaining from the venture... they are reaping daily rewards and have no financial ill effects when it all comes to an end.... in fact they walk away to retire well.
I would like to think that I had a positive influence on those choosing to have an open mind to consider facts vs. ‘feelings’... after explaining the absurdity of the Crayola situation... it is difficult to imagine anyone reading my posts regarding the math and the waste in shipping cost and fuel consumption to be able to logically justify any positive conclusion for this company or p2o technology. The mental image of burning more fuel than can be made and paying $20 in shipping to make $5 in fuel is enough to make it clear to even the most nontechnical individual.
The fundamental problem remains- it cost more for plastic/shipping/processing than the value of the output.
That is not counting all of the millions spent on the equipment and infrastructure.
No matter what kind of catalyst is used, unless there is a way to make 5-10x more value from the output... it's a diminishing return.
In the .40s now means, with a lot of potential sell weight behind it, next week is going to be very interesting once the poor Q#s come out... and based on the volume here it seems that there is more than just bad #s news... there must be some added bad news pending.
Add in the major distraction of litigation… anyone that has had the pleasure of giving a deposition would know what a mental distraction this can be, especially if it is personal… and the state of company progress is surely disrupted and fragmented.
All of the unrest for the current management adds to the tension and distraction.
Throw in some questions as to intent of the alleged sale of stock by jb and the mass of negativity culminates in quite a bad taste in the mouth of anyone observing this mess. Just consider the compensation that jb is receiving… is it really conceivable that someone that is indemnified by the corporation for legal expenses and has what appears to be a significant accumulation of finances from his position(s) with these ventures and it begs the question as to what motive would someone in his position have to sell shares of stock. If the guy running the show is not long then what is that to say of those that are? Those not as close to the situation… not as privy to the knowledge of the future and direction? Let’s face it… if jb believes that the company/technology will succeed, would it not be his belief that the share price will increase by many multiples of its current value? Why would anyone with that knowledge and belief sell short.. for a fraction of the potential value??? This action alone speaks volumes in so many ways about the future of jbi… without uttering a word….
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Oh, I see, so there is processing required to make this FREE plastic useable. Is there any documentation or per-calculation on the cost and time involved in this processing?
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Evaluating this company on an objective basis begs one nagging question-
If this p2o process works as claimed...
Why is there not one single machine running 24-7 to produce a consistent revenue stream and demonstrate viability?
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
What are they going to do about that pesky sodium chloride (salt) issue? Is there a way to remove the salt from the salt water? Perhaps this is an added profit center, salt sales?
I am not sure it will be economically viable to do this however, but perhaps they have another secret catalyst that can take care of the issue.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
It was stated that jbi would have stockpiles of computer tapes to process into fuel and that they would even get paid to read the tapes first turning a double profit... Is there any update on the number of tons of old tapes that are being processed? What are the current revenues of this tape reading anyway???
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
I have read about jbi building a fleet of boats equipped with p2o processors. In light of the 'wet feedstock' incident that caused downtime and delays waiting for the plastic to dry out... how will these boats be able to process the wet feedstock pulled from the ocean???
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Can anyone provide any thoughts on where the hundreds of franchises will be built? I read that jbi has masses lining up at the door to fork over $300K each for a location and that money was about to pour in.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Completely agree!
And the most disturbing part is that this is all being done under a false banner- Good for the Environment!
When the cost and negative environmental impact outweighs the gain how can anything positive come from it?
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Can you provide a copy of the contract?
Yes, It costs 4x more to ship than the $.24 of fuel than can be made per pound.
It burns more fuel than it can produce.
It wastes boxes, packing tape, and shipping labels to individually ship small boxes of crayons and markers to make a minor amount of fuel and waste a significant amount of resources in the process.
A far cry from FREE garbage.
All this and it is being done under a false banner of a 'green program'.
Any thoughts on how much added cost for labor, space, overhead, processing and logistics will be?
Small boxes of feedstock.. one by one... sounds very efficient.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Call it what you wish,
The problem still remains that the basis for the company was to divert plastic waste from going into a landfill…
and doing it under the misrepresented concept of FREE feedstock…
never disclosing the true costs involved…
with the overinflated result- the promise of extremely high returns…
again not providing realistic assessment of negative financial variables…
all based on the revolutionary catalyst being the key to differentiate this from all other past failures in demonstrating commercial viability of the same process.
This was all touted as being an environmental advantage…
Remove FREE garbage from the waste stream and turn it into fuel for a significant profit.
When you take the basis and promotion that was used…
to sell share of stock in order to fund the work…
and you get people excited about solutions
and large profits…
and positive impact on the environment…
The company has promoted a grand and lofty false expectation.
Ever so slowly the truth is revealed.
This overinflated misrepresentation is being demonstrated to be significantly deficient on a daily basis.
The fact is that the undisclosed, financial and environmental costs are more than the value of the end result.
The reality is quite different than the basis that was hatched to promote the sale of stock.
Most would call this misguidance, misrepresentation, fraud… or a scam.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
PLASTIC IS DIFFICULT TO EXTRACT FOR VALUE
For all of the reasons that it is difficult to obtain plastic from a waste stream for recycling would also apply to obtaining plastic from a waste stream to put it into jbi units.
The single biggest issue that creates the most troubling problem here is that jbi units can not handle mixed plastic or plastic with contaminants OR WET LANDFILL/MONOFILL PLASTIC. Putting plastic with contaminants into the machine will cause fouling, bad gasses, bad emissions, and variations and contaminants in the fuel output as well as complex changes on a molecular level of the fuel that can render it out of spec. or cause the water to expand at x1600 and cause an explosion.
In order to run the jbi machines it is necessary to sort the plastic and obtain a good, contaminant free stream of specific types of plastic. If you can achieve that you now have plastic that has value on the recycling market (more value than the fuel that you can make).
If you have a sorted, contaminant free supply of post industrial plastic, it is already worth more on the recycle market than it is worth trying to turn it into fuel. (and spending $55,000,000 and 4 years with no results)
Why the entire premise of jbi’s plastic to fuel is FALSE-
A > B
B – A = NEGATIVE RESULT
Plastic Value > Fuel Produced Value
Fuel Produced Value – Plastic Value = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
The first problem is in the design and permit restrictions…
The jbi machines can ONLY use #2 #4 #5 and #7 plastic (and only a very limited amount of #7).
This means the plastic MUST be SORTED unlike other companies that can handle ALL plastics.
When it comes to SORTED plastic, you get what you pay for.
If you want contaminated mixed plastic that will foul up your machines and break the set emission standards, sure you can get truckloads at (only) $500 a ton.
If you want good, sorted plastic you will pay an average of $750 a ton.
If you HAVE good sorted plastic you can SELL it on average of $750 a ton
(more than the value of the fuel you could make from it!)
There may be small random opportunities to stumble across good cheap plastic… but as soon as these are found there will be recyclers making sales calls to outbid jbi for that supply. If there is any sizeable supply, recyclers will already be on it and happy to pay just a little more than the value of the fuel that can be made from it because they can turn that supply into more money from the help of government RECYCLING SUBSIDIES that help them keep this out of the hands of companies that are trying to RE-PURPOSE that plastic which is what p2o is classified as.
If it (only) takes 8 lbs to make a gallon
and (on the best days) you get 6 US brls/ton (but jbi seems to now indicate that they can only get 4.4brls/ton)
IT WILL COST $125/brl JUST IN PLASTIC!
OR, another way to look at it- If you just sort and sell the good plastic that is needed to run the machines, you could MAKE MORE MONEY!
now add your $10 overhead cost (yeah, right, more like $55mill)
and you are selling $110/brl fuel for a $25 loss per barrel!!! (much greater loss at the newly revealed 4.4brls/ton!)
This math is not double dipping, or accounting for ANY of the long list of other issues previously pointed out AND it is the BEST CASE SCENARIO
(meaning min price for good sorted plastic, max yield for the process, round UP to make it juicier, minimum overhead cost, and at a sell price of $110/brl which is NOT what a WHOLESALE buyer would pay btw and certainly NOT what the jbi filings have revealed… $.95 naphtha isn’t even $40brl!).
And if I was RockTenn why on earth would I put plastic in a machine (that holds no IP advantage for my business model and could make me the target of an infringement lawsuit) to turn it into anything.... and lose time and money.... when I could sell the plastic on the open market FOR MORE MONEY and do nothing to it? Why does RockTenn landfill plastic now you ask… simple- IT COST MORE TO SEPARATE, PROCESS AND DRY IT THAN ITS WORTH! If their monofil 2/3 water plastic could be made useable for a jbi machine it could then be sold to a recycler for more money than the value of the fuel that can be made from it!
Just another additional added point to all of the other problems....
Landfill plastic cost time and money to extract it,
once its extracted it has MORE VALUE AS RECYCLED PLASTIC than it has turning it into fuel.
http://www.plasticsnews.com/resin/recycled-plastics/current-pricing
When you are permitted to ONLY use landfill plastic and you can ONLY put half of the landfill plastic in the machine or you create toxins and deadly corrosive gasses that will rust and foul up your machine and break emission regulations... then you have MORE PROBLEMS.
Once you spend the time and money to extract HALF of the landfill plastic that you can use, what do you do with the other half? Pay to put it in a landfill (ANOTHER UNMENTIONED ADDED COST) and if you actually started doing this on a regular basis or somehow managed to run at maximum capacity, in a years time you will have dumped well over 100,000 tons of UNUSABLE plastic into a landfill! (that would put you on the map as one of the biggest plastic contributors to negative environmental impact in the state of NY if not the country,… talk about bad PR for a company attempting to gain an earth friendly image)
I have not seen or heard of ANY plastic processing equipment or methods mentioned for JBI... if they were doing this it would be a good idea to let them know that they could qualify for recycling status if they sold the plastic that they separated... and between the break even cost of doing this and the recycling subsides they could get, they might just make a buck or two... oh, that's right, that would get used to pay for the dumping license they would need to get rid of that much BAD plastic that they can't use!
It has become obvious why making oil for only $10 a brl on a commercial level is a misguided fraud... jbi admitted this in the recent 10K!
And why waste management companies don’t find it commercially viable to sort and sell plastic headed to a landfill…
and after 4 years and $55mill it should have become even more obvious that...
MAKING FUEL FOR ONLY $10/brl WAS A LIE.
No more credibility to any of the $10mill/year processor
Obsolete and impossible to achieve third party reports based on bad numbers generated from the assumed use of FREE plastic.
No way to make fuel for $10brl when the plastic feedstock has to be paid for.
NO WAY TO MAKE A PROFIT WHEN THE FEEDSTOCK COST MORE THAN THE FUEL
(Why perpetual motion machines don’t work-
energy in = energy out with loss… ($55,000,000 loss and growing)
THERE IS NO WAY TO GET MORE OUT THAN YOU PUT IN!)
THE PLASTIC HAS A VALUE GREATER THAN THE VALUE OF THE FUEL jbi CAN PRODUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
and government recycling subsidies make sure that this holds true
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
BLAME THE CAUSE NOT THE EFFECT
The reason jbi and p2o are unsuccessful and not commercially viable-
A > B
B – A = NEGATIVE RESULT
Feedstock Cost > Fuel Produced Value
Fuel Produced Value - Feedstock Cost = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
------------------
CAUSE- A > B
CAUSE- jbi said they can make fuel from plastic at a profit
EFFECT- People point out that A > B
EFFECT- NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
The reason the Crayola (so sorry I misspelled Crayola) program is a FAIL for jbi is simple-
It will cost SOMEONE 4X more in shipping and it will burn MORE fuel than jbi can make! At just $.24 total value per pound… and the idea that jbi can provide a ‘green technology’ here is severely flawed.
However, it appears that Crayola may not be working with jbi on this after all… perhaps it’s the award winning Agilyx? Or maybe Vadxx, Recarbon, Polymer Energy, Nexus Fuels, PARC, Klean, Green Manta or Polyflow which are all relatively close to Crayola and may actually have a process that somehow makes this make sense… unlike the non award winning jbi.
Btw, any thoughts on why jbi is not on the Cleantech 100 list?
http://www.cleantech.com/upcoming-events/global-cleantech-100/the-2012-global-cleantech-100/
Agilyx (and their bashed process) has been for the last 2 years… How perplexing!
If jbi and the p2o process were commercially viable...
and/or
The process worked...
and/or
jbi actually did anything that it promised...
and/or
jbi did not screw up every step of the way...
There would be no way for anyone or anything to stop the stock price from rising!
The fact that the company and the process do not work is reflected in the falling share value...
not any outside influence...
but solely based on the company's performance and its inability to disprove reality.
CAUSE- jib is a company based on false promises
EFFECT- talk about false promises and the stock price goes down
CAUSE- jb promises the world but doesn't deliver
EFFECT- excuses are made and the stock price goes down
CAUSE- jbi fails to show a positive cash flow
EFFECT- blame everyone and everything except the failing company
CAUSE- plastic costs more than the fuel than can be made
EFFECT- blame the bearer of reality not the company for a bad concept
CAUSE- p2o is not commercially viable
EFFECT- true statements are made about p2o and the stock price goes down
The problem is the company, the process and the reality...
If the truth was any different the results would be as as well.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Oh, I have... and I even took it a few steps further ;)
RockTenn, being a pro recycler... you would think they would be wise to the game... well, as it turns out, they are!
good look'n out
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
THE FACTS ABOUT PLASTIC BAGS:
RECYCLABLE, AFFORDABLE, AND CONVENIENT
Plastic bags are 100% recyclable, reusable, made from natural gas, not oil, and a sustainable choice for consumers, communities and businesses. What’s more, the plastic bag manufacturing and recycling industry is a uniquely American industry that employs more than 30,000 Americans in 349 plants across the country, including more than 1,000 people in Washington state.
co.thurston.wa.us
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Yes, but there must be someone to blame for this great technological failure!
Since the technology and the concept and the company and the founder are all so wonderful... it must have been a couple of statements about reality than caused it to all go so terribly wrong.
Never mind the fact that the words were statements of reality...
the fact that someone uttered those words mad it all fall apart!
If it was never pointed out that plastic cost more to obtain and process... well this would be turning a profit!
If it was never stated that crayons cost more to ship and burn more fuel than can be made... well, then this would have been profitable!
If lies were not uncovered...
they would never be lies, and things would be great!
and if reality were not true....
then the share price would be $50+
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
BLAME THE REASON NOT THE EFFECT
If jbi and the p2o process were commercially viable...
and/or
The process worked...
and/or
jbi actually did anything that it promised...
and/or
jbi did not screw up every step of the way...
There would be no way for anyone or anything to stop the stock price from rising!
The fact that the company and the process do not work is reflected in the falling share value...
not any outside influence...
but solely based on the company's performance and its inability to disprove reality.
CAUSE- jib is a company based on false promises
EFFECT- talk about false promises and the stock price goes down
CAUSE- jb promises the world but doesn't deliver
EFFECT- excuses are made and the stock price goes down
CAUSE- jbi fails to show a positive cash flow
EFFECT- blame everyone and everything except the failing company
CAUSE- plastic costs more than the fuel than can be made
EFFECT- blame the bearer of reality not the company for a bad concept
CAUSE- p2o is not commercially viable
EFFECT- true statements are made about p2o and the stock price goes down
The problem is the company, the process and the reality...
If the truth was any different the results would be as as well.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Plastic Bag Recycling
allaboutbags.ca
Fiction: Plastic bags are not recycled, or have very low recycling rates in Canada.
Fact: Canada has a national network of plastic bag recyclers and recycling rates are high and growing as recycling expands.
The Facts
The recycling of plastic shopping bags that have not been reused for household and pet waste or for organics collection (40-60% of the bags) is very popular in Canada. Recycling rates are high: 32% in B.C, 32% in Alberta, 36% in Ontario and as high as 50% in some provinces in Atlantic Canada.1
The bags are recycled and remanufactured, locally, extending the life of the resource and creating valuable green manufacturing jobs.
The bags are recycled through a national network of recyclers into new bags, outdoor furniture, office supplies, water pipes, plastic lumber, and garden supplies.
Recycling rates are high and growing
There is a national network of bag recyclers coast to coast
The recycling of plastic shopping bags across Canada is supported by an extensive network of recyclers from coast to coast – large and small. The large recyclers are Merlin Plastics in Western Canada, EFS-plastics in Ontario, RCM Group in Quebec, and Inteplast in Atlantic Canada.
There are many successful recycling systems in Canada
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
Craola ColorCycle
First, the quote is to an unrelated topic about corn and ethanol.
Second, yes, I did contact Craola asking them to help me understand this program and how they could deem it to be positive. I asked them to justify it over recycling and non-profit programs that benefit kids and the environment. I asked them to help me understand, as a concerned supporter of Craola and their exceptional brand and corporate image, how they could offer a positive program that has a negative impact on the environment and if they could provide me with details on why my math is wrong. I further asked them if they were prepared to defend the potential negative publicity if my math was right. They were very appreciative and obviously quick to remove the program from their website.
See, it is not difficult to understand the issues here... Craola does and it didn't take them a mere fraction of the information that I have provided here.
When the shipping cost is 4X greater than the value of the fuel that can be made and the fuel that is burned shipping the used caryons and markers is greater than the fuel that can be produced... it is easy to understand why p20 is not only not commercially viable.... but P2O IS BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT!
It seems Craola agrees.
Disclaimer;
I am in no way compensated for my opinion or my posts on this site. I have no ‘secret agenda’ or personal gain that can be materialized from the act and method of my postings. I am simply a concerned, ‘outside’ interest with valid knowledge and information that I feel may be helpful. I chose to provide this information and related opinions at my own will and from the direction of no person, company or entity. My motive is to help those that may not have the background, knowledge, means or access to this information and my personal desire to gain additional knowledge and understanding of the topics discussed. I am compelled to educate. No ill will, malice, defamation, or slander is intended in any way. All literary creativity utilized in my posts are intended as a vehicle to express my opinions. I am always open to mature discussions of substance and encourage rebuttal and enlightenment. My sincere apologies go out to anyone that is disturbed by the revelations of fact that I have conveyed in the past or may provide in the future.
JBI MELTDOWN
To date, no valid argument has been put forth to discredit or disprove this information or the facts it conveys.
How can anyone read this and still believe that making fuel from plastic is commercially viable?
Following is a collection of information and insight that uses the Crayola ColorCycle program as a perfect example of why jib is unable to make p2o work and it explains the simple formula below-
A > B
B – A = NEGATIVE RESULT
Feedstock Cost > Fuel Produced Value
Fuel Produced Value - Feedstock Cost = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
As we can see from the above equation, the cost of the feedstock is greater than the value of the fuel that can be made from it. In the case of the Craola program, if we set aside all of the costs for overhead, operations, labor, infrastructure and processing, and we simply focus on the shipping cost alone… we can derive that the cost of shipping alone is an average of 4X the value of the fuel that can be produced.
Furthermore, the environmental impact has a negative net result.
When we look at recycling versus re-purposing (p2o is not classified as recycling since it removes the feedstock from the cycle) we can see that the end result of recycling is a substantially higher value end product that survives to continue in the cycle. Even with this higher value, recycling is a challenge in most cases and would not be possible without programs that subsidize its existence.
The conclusion that can be drawn from the Crayola ColorCycle program is the same conclusion that can be drawn for the entire p2o process of making fuel from plastic. The challenge of acquiring, shipping, processing, and paying for the overhead needed to carryout the process poses a substantially weighted financial burden that renders the p2o of fuel commercially unviable.
When the cost is greater than the value of the production of fuel there is no profit.
When the shipping cost alone are 4X more than the value of the fuel that can be produced… the process is not only commercially unviable but it poses a overall negative impact.
When more fuel is burned than produced, the process is a negative impact on the environment.
MORE SIMPLE MATH
It would be a good idea to do a little math before diving head first into shallow water.
Has anyone considered the logistics?
Let's face it... schools are money strapped as it is... who is going to pay for the shipping of boxes of used markers?
Even the largest flat rate box through USPS will cost $16.
Try shipping them through UPS and do the math....
How much is this great idea going to cost???
Seems like $750 a ton for plastic is a bargain by the time you consider all of the individual boxes of what 10 or 20 lbs each?
Get excited about a good idea before putting a pen to paper... par for the course at jbi... sounds like touting $10brl all over again... oh, wait, we forgot to do the math... ok it's $87 a barrel not $10. Free markers from schools means $10 a barrel... oops, when we account for shipping makes it $132brl!
FINANCIALLY UNFEASIBLE
To ship a 25lb box of used markers from California to NF = $28
To ship a 25lb box of used markers from Buffalo NY to NF = $15
The bigger the box the higher the cost.
Even at just $.50 a pound for shipping the cost per ton is $1000!
How does this make sense???
That's not counting all of the logistics of handling potentially thousands of individual small boxes coming in the door.
A non profit could possible gain some form of support/relief to pull this off but a commercial company that profits from the use of collecting old markers and crayons and gives nothing in return? Most school recycling programs provide some form of financial benefit for the effort and goodwill... where is this going to come from when the company is attempting this as a for profit program?
How does crayola benefit?
If the program was setup as a recycling basis at least they could gain a recycling subsidy for the effort... but that wouldn't cover the shipping cost. If they (crayola) thought this through they would have created this type of program with a recycler and set it up as a profit center to get the subsidy and sell the plastic... or did they and found that it was not economically viable?
So jbi comes along, without doing the math, and offers them a "hey, we'll pay for shipping to our site so you can offer a re-purposing program". Sounds like another ill planned RockTenn deal... jbi pays all the cost and ends up with another commercially un-viable disaster.
The only thought is that plastic at $750 a ton is a bargain when you consider the shipping and logistics cost.
Even at $.50 a pound just for shipping... the used crayons and markers are going to cost $1000 per ton!
With 4.4 brls a ton of production and at $110 a brl (which isn't happening due to that pesky bad naphtha issue)
You are looking at a loss of $516 per ton!
The more desperate jbi becomes for plastic,
the more obvious it becomes,
that p2o is-
NOT COMMERCIALLY VIABLE!
and the entire idea was half baked from the beginning
Thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________
In response to my numbers being skewed-
Where are the numbers skewed?
Who is going to pay the shipping?
For every dollar spent to get the used markers/crayons to jbi less than $.25 could be gained in fuel.
Spend $1 in shipping to make $.25 in fuel...
Waste fuel getting it to jbi...
If all of the math was done here I bet it takes more fuel pound for pound to get plastic to NF than they can make from it!
This is the FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM in its most basic form!!!
To ship 1 ton of used markets to NF will cost MORE than the value of the fuel that can be made. JUST IN SHIPPING COST!
If it is not completely obvious from this crayola situation I am not sure how much more blatant it could possibly be.
P2o works very well...
but it is not commercially viable!
end of story.
HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
That is the key question.
As for jbi the answer is simple-
From one ton of plastic they can make 4.4brls of fuel.
JBI MELTDOWN
Following is a collection of information and insight that uses the Crayola ColorCycle program as a perfect example of why jib is unable to make p2o work and it explains the simple formula below-
A > B
B – A = NEGATIVE RESULT
Feedstock Cost > Fuel Produced Value
Fuel Produced Value - Feedstock Cost = NEGATIVE PROFIT FUEL SALES
As we can see from the above equation, the cost of the feedstock is greater than the value of the fuel that can be made from it. In the case of the Craola program, if we set aside all of the costs for overhead, operations, labor, infrastructure and processing, and we simply focus on the shipping cost alone… we can derive that the cost of shipping alone is an average of 4X the value of the fuel that can be produced.
Furthermore, the environmental impact has a negative net result.
When we look at recycling versus re-purposing (p2o is not classified as recycling since it removes the feedstock from the cycle) we can see that the end result of recycling is a substantially higher value end product that survives to continue in the cycle. Even with this higher value, recycling is a challenge in most cases and would not be possible without programs that subsidize its existence.
The conclusion that can be drawn from the Crayola ColorCycle program is the same conclusion that can be drawn for the entire p2o process of making fuel from plastic. The challenge of acquiring, shipping, processing, and paying for the overhead needed to carryout the process poses a substantially weighted financial burden that renders the p2o of fuel commercially unviable.
When the cost is greater than the value of the production of fuel there is no profit.
When the shipping cost alone are 4X more than the value of the fuel that can be produced… the process is not only commercially unviable but it poses a overall negative impact.
When more fuel is burned than produced, the process is a negative impact on the environment.
MORE SIMPLE MATH
It would be a good idea to do a little math before diving head first into shallow water.
Has anyone considered the logistics?
Let's face it... schools are money strapped as it is... who is going to pay for the shipping of boxes of used markers?
Even the largest flat rate box through USPS will cost $16.
Try shipping them through UPS and do the math....
How much is this great idea going to cost???
Seems like $750 a ton for plastic is a bargain by the time you consider all of the individual boxes of what 10 or 20 lbs each?
Get excited about a good idea before putting a pen to paper... par for the course at jbi... sounds like touting $10brl all over again... oh, wait, we forgot to do the math... ok it's $87 a barrel not $10. Free markers from schools means $10 a barrel... oops, when we account for shipping makes it $132brl!
FINANCIALLY UNFEASIBLE
To ship a 25lb box of used markers from California to NF = $28
To ship a 25lb box of used markers from Buffalo NY to NF = $15
The bigger the box the higher the cost.
Even at just $.50 a pound for shipping the cost per ton is $1000!
How does this make sense???
That's not counting all of the logistics of handling potentially thousands of individual small boxes coming in the door.
A non profit could possible gain some form of support/relief to pull this off but a commercial company that profits from the use of collecting old markers and crayons and gives nothing in return? Most school recycling programs provide some form of financial benefit for the effort and goodwill... where is this going to come from when the company is attempting this as a for profit program?
How does crayola benefit?
If the program was setup as a recycling basis at least they could gain a recycling subsidy for the effort... but that wouldn't cover the shipping cost. If they (crayola) thought this through they would have created this type of program with a recycler and set it up as a profit center to get the subsidy and sell the plastic... or did they and found that it was not economically viable?
So jbi comes along, without doing the math, and offers them a "hey, we'll pay for shipping to our site so you can offer a re-purposing program". Sounds like another ill planned RockTenn deal... jbi pays all the cost and ends up with another commercially un-viable disaster.
The only thought is that plastic at $750 a ton is a bargain when you consider the shipping and logistics cost.
Even at $.50 a pound just for shipping... the used crayons and markers are going to cost $1000 per ton!
With 4.4 brls a ton of production and at $110 a brl (which isn't happening due to that pesky bad naphtha issue)
You are looking at a loss of $516 per ton!
The more desperate jbi becomes for plastic,
the more obvious it becomes,
that p2o is-
NOT COMMERCIALLY VIABLE!
and the entire idea was half baked from the beginning
Thoughts?
________________________________________________________________________
In response to my numbers being skewed-
Where are the numbers skewed?
Who is going to pay the shipping?
For every dollar spent to get the used markers/crayons to jbi less than $.25 could be gained in fuel.
Spend $1 in shipping to make $.25 in fuel...
Waste fuel getting it to jbi...
If all of the math was done here I bet it takes more fuel pound for pound to get plastic to NF than they can make from it!
This is the FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM in its most basic form!!!
To ship 1 ton of used markets to NF will cost MORE than the value of the fuel that can be made. JUST IN SHIPPING COST!
If it is not completely obvious from this crayola situation I am not sure how much more blatant it could possibly be.
P2o works very well...
but it is not commercially viable!
end of story.
HOW MUCH WILL IT COST?
That is the key question.
As for jbi the answer is simple-
From one ton of plastic they can make 4.4brls of fuel.