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They can't throw us under a bus like this. Neither should the company
You can refer to different statements and regulations but really you can have no real certainty of how this will unfold
You need to consider the possibility that you could be wrong
did you just say you sold on Merkur and paid 20% more for OTC shares
Even though IR said the ex-date was Tuesday (Oct 30) and the company announced on Tuesday that the ex-date was Tuesday?
If the dividend is 25% or more of the stock value, special rules apply to the determination of the ex-dividend date. In these cases, the ex-dividend date will be deferred until one business day after the dividend is paid. In the above example, the ex-dividend date for a stock that’s paying a dividend equal to 25% or more of its value, is October 4, 2017.
Sometimes a company pays a dividend in the form of stock rather than cash. The stock dividend may be additional shares in the company or in a subsidiary being spun off. The procedures for stock dividends may be different from cash dividends. The ex-dividend date is set the first business day after the stock dividend is paid (and is also after the record date).
If you sell your stock before the ex-dividend date, you also are selling away your right to the stock dividend. Your sale includes an obligation to deliver any shares acquired as a result of the dividend to the buyer of your shares, since the seller will receive an I.O.U. or "due bill" from his or her broker for the additional shares. Thus, it is important to remember that the day you can sell your shares without being obligated to deliver the additional shares is not the first business day after the record date, but usually is the first business day after the stock dividend is paid
The person REALLY wanted those 250k though; I had a bid when OTC opened today and he bid more, so I increased my bid above his and he raised further (I reduced my bid at that point though)
Doesn't answer who sold though, but it was one big chunk of 250k
Which means TRW would indeed have to pay dividends
Was this about the top-up collateral shares that the issued several months ago?
I would also argue that the value of this bonus is quite uncertain
I find the following text more significant:
"It is the Company’s intention to carry-forward the cash dividend policy being implemented for FY2019 into its subsequent years of operation and will inform its investors as to its cash dividend policy for FY2020, FY2021, etc. as these years approach..."
You know what the part in bold below means?
Yeah, that would be another one for the Guinness Book of Records
But there will be more opportunities this year, and next year. Not many though
I believe the break-even is for Merkur to trade at 2/3 of OTC.
Assuming SIAF will retain 36.6% post distribution (I'm still going to call this speculative, but it is within the realm of possibilities) and using the 0.3707 TRW/SIAF (which if wrong, but it doesn't really matter since the ratio will remain the same)
Keeping the Merkur-shares;
0.3707 TRW + retained 2*0.3707 in SIAF = 1.1121 TRW-shares/SIAF
Selling Merkur and buying OTC
0.3707 TRW (from Merkur) + 0.66 * 0.3707 TRW (from OTC with a 1/3 premium, hence 1/3 less shares then what were on Merkur) + 2*0.3707*0.66 = 1.1121 TRW-shares/SIAF
Now this is based purely on TRW-shares! I.e this means sacrificing some cash dividend and - even worse - future CA, HU, SJAP etc. It also ignores future dilution (or buybacks). And, as stated, it is based on SIAF retaining 36.6% after distribution.
How about a commission instead?
There could be more value on Merkur, especially if SIAF retains 36.6% of TRW
Ha ha ha! The sellers on Merkur have gone absolutely bonkers today! Selling at NOK 2,22!
I was more pointing out the total lack of understanding and deserved lack of confidence in this company of the future
Yes. You should buy it on OTC
Am I totally stupid to buy more?
it all comes down to that if you have SIAF shares officially on your account October 31 you qualify
Contrary to a common misperception, the record date does not always determine which investor (the buyer or the seller) gets the dividend. It is true that with normal dividends the record date determines the ex-dividend date but that is not true for dividends of 25% or more of a company's stock price. Therefore, while it is often true that the record date determines which investor gets the dividend (indirectly by virtue of determining the ex-dividend date), it is always true that the ex-dividend date determines which investor (the buyer or the seller) gets the dividend
Nothing else is communicated or believable
Ote has not ex- dividend yet
In cases of a deferred ex-date, the only function of the record date is to determine on which shares the dividend is paid. Because of that -- and this is a critical point -- it is the ex-dividend date that determines who qualifies for the dividend, not the record date.
While initially confusing, there are valid, rational reasons why on big percentage distributions the ex-dividend date is after the record date and after the payment date. It doesn't happen often, but big percentage distributions don't happen often. That's why most investors aren't familiar with how they work.
I wonder if the sell-off on OTC is shareholders who have read the PR on Merkur and believe the ex date for OTC is over as well, if there is dumping, or if it is the MMs (unaware of the TRW-distribution) that are taking us down.
We do trade at a decent profit compared to ATL, so there might be some people who want to secure their gains, but it still is rather confusing to me.
it's hard to actually know if Finra has to be involved or not since it's Triway who gives out the shares
I am also a bit surprised that we haven't seen a pm about the cash dividend
Oh, I'm saturated already
I would strongly advice people against purchasing for money they need in the short-term (or medium term) since there might not be any exit opportunity, but I should (...) be able to sell these shares with a nice profit once we get the ex date for the cash dividend (which should come around the time the ex date on OTC for the TRW-shares comes, maybe before, maybe at the same time, maybe after). They are still entitled to a 29.4% yield... (with 2x5 cents that is)
put your money where your mouth is
When I say not worth anything I mean in real life, people of course can do all kind of math on a paper and claim there is value but in real life there is not until you can sell your shares somewhere at a good price and get money for it
This will keep Merkur under pressure for a while
I'm pretty sure there won't be any TRW-trades close to 3,41 usd on the "trading website" for a while
So when they are issuing shares, they were issuing half in both stock exchanges?
So you're saying that they don't reply to questions about the ex date on the TRW-distribution on OTC because of the typhoon? Sorry, but that's pure BS... (they have also stated the expected cost from the typhoon btw)
And they said I have to book the "true economic value"
There never is... What has that to do with earnings Q3 and/or the cash dividend?
I don't think that is the case; the information about the ex date is readily available on Merkur. The PPS didn't really drop that much on the ex date, so it might be drifting instead. I assume many bought some extra shares for the TRW-distribution that they now want to get rid of.
I'm more surprised that they don't see that Merkur now is trading way below OTC, but maybe we're all following this forum and hence everyone knows that there might be a reason why OTC hasn't dropped yet.
The PPS on Merkur might drift until we get a PR regarding the ex date for the cash dividend, but it should stop at some level - although I'm not sure at what level.
The TRW dividend hasn't been announced yet on OTC
hmm That would be a good deal - if the ex dates are different.
OTC closed at a 26% premium over what OTC closed at, so the difference isn't negligable, but for those who feel brave the risk/reward might be good.
And you are only paying 7 cents for a $1.26+ dividend
only one way street
The cost basis of SIAF-shares might become negative if one applies even a remotely proper valuation of TRW, and it will be a mess anyways. If we do lower our cost basis for SIAF then we might get a tax deduction from capital losses if you sell now, which wouldn't be in the tax authorities interest (and this will last at least 2-3 years!)
I think I'll end up writing a comment on my tax returns and leave it up to to the tax authorities to decide
Did they say for how long? It would normally take a day or three to transfer, no? So transferring right after the ex date on Merkur might be messy, but shouldn't be an issue if you transfer 7 days from now - unless we will have a different ex date on OTC that is... (or maybe they will refuse to transfer any shares before the payment date either way?)
until next year when it should be moving up to 1usd