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goodluck

12/27/02 1:08 PM

#1438 RE: sarai #1428

Sarai,
Consider what happened in this country just a few months ago when the DC snipers shot 13 (was that the number? I forget already!) people. Individuals. Not groups. Schools were put on lockdown. People hired others to fill their gas tanks. It was all our wonderful news shows could talk about, even with an important election and the ongoing threat of war with Iraq looming.

Magnify it. Imagine if each of those "shots" was a pretty powerful bomb in a crowded area in downtown DC. Or NYC. Or Chicago. Or LA. Or even in smaller cities or towns. And you didn't know where the next one would go off. And you knew that a certain fairly identifiable group--most of them non-citizens and foreign to America--was responsible for it because they blame you for all their troubles. (I say "fairly identifiable" here because many Israelis and Palestineans look so much alike--remember a Newsweek cover about 6 months ago which showed a Palestinean teenager who carried a bomb and her Israeli victim--the two of them almost looked like sisters.) And many of that group of people live in what are essentially ghettoes of those cities, which can be identified and fenced off.

Why on earth do you think that any country in the world wouldn't do what the Israelis are doing? Except in most countries, it would probably be even harsher treatment. I am certainly not excepting the US from that. The anger and violence that would directed at this group if such things happened here would be unimaginable. Consider that in the past, what is it now, three years, there still have been fewer Palestinean deaths than died in the WTC. Consider that until the past ten years, there were something like 2,000 murders per year in NYC alone.

What Sharon is doing is bad. What is happening to the Palestineans and the Israelis alike is bad. But put what is happening into some perspective. It isn't simply that the Israelis are being monsters here. The Palestineans have a hand in their own wounds. At least the Palestinean leadership does. As do the Arab leaders in other countries that egg them on by holding out the hope of the destruction of Israel. As do the European countries that practiced imperialism for so many centuries and set up a world "order" in its wake that is a basket case in so many areas, including much of the mideast today.

Some problems are set up in such a way as to make any solution next to impossible, and when people are unwilling to compromise to get a second, third, or even fourth best solution, they get a 20th, 30th, or 40th best solution. Many political problems are like that, in case you haven't noticed.

Sam


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brainlessone

12/27/02 7:53 PM

#1439 RE: sarai #1428

Sarai, I suggest you read a book. it was written 20 years a go. its name is Why the jews by Prager and Telushkin. All the complaints that have been raised in the last few years are the same complaints by the same groups of people 20 and even 30 years ago. And you can go back 40 years, 50 years or even 100 years ago. It does not change.

Sharon is trying to make the best of it. If you read the news carefully you will find that very few PLO people are being killed by the IDF, but Hamas and Islamic Jihad are suffering. Consider why. Ask yourself where the Israelis miraculously get information about terrorists in the middle of gaza or jenin. then take a look at debka.

for more origins

see

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_jewish_forces.php

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brainlessone

12/27/02 10:21 PM

#1442 RE: sarai #1428

snippets from history

From the PLO charter:

please see what territory they claim to beleive in:
hint ( they disclaim gaza and the west bank)


"Article 16: "...the people of Palestine, desiring to befriend all nations which love freedom, justice, and peace, look forward to their support in restoring the legitimate situation to Palestine... and [in] enabling its people to exercise national sovereignty and freedom."

Article 24: "This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, [or] on the Gaza Strip..."

Article 26: "The Liberation Organization... does not interfere in the internal affairs of any Arab states."

These excerpts from the Palestinian National Charter, as it was formulated in 1964 by the inaugural convention of the Palestinian National Council in Cairo (where the Palestinian Liberation Organization was founded) are of significant consequence, for they point to a fundamental fallacy in the authenticity of the Palestinian claims for national self-determination. As can be seen, they explicitly eschew any claims of sovereignty in the territories of Judea and Samaria (the "West Bank") and the Gaza Strip, which they openly concede to the jurisdiction of the Jordanians and the Egyptians respectively.

This seriously cuts away the ground from under any claim that the "West Bank" and Gaza constitute the Palestinians´ ancient and long-yearned-for motherland, and to which they have unalienable and inexorable rights. On the one hand, this submissive concession of sovereignty over these territories to non-Palestinian rule indicates a remarkable malleability in the national aspirations of the Palestinians, which seems to fly in the face of conventional wisdom. "