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brainlessone

12/06/03 10:16 PM

#30208 RE: harrypothead #30201

and Robert Fisk is the spokeman for Prince Saud
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Amaunet

12/06/03 11:12 PM

#30212 RE: harrypothead #30201

"[President Bush is] an engaging person, but I think for some reason he's been captured by the neoconservatives around him."

At one time but I am really questioning this now. I was looking for signs of waning neocon influence, #msg-1860590, and then I received the following. The neocons, or at least a significant bloc of them, have it seems lost influence with Bush. This is all very hush, hush and backstage and maybe they can redeem themselves but at present something appears to be going on.

Slightly dated excerpt: 11 September, 2003

Unfortunately for the leadership in Jerusalem, foreign policy hawks in the Bush administration linked with Israeli hawks have lost clout in recent weeks due to the outcome of the war in Iraq. In addition to being incorrect thus far regarding their accusations of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, the Bush administration also admittedly failed to prepare for the reconstruction efforts in Iraq. An unexpected amount of U.S. military casualties, the failure to bring order and control to the country, and the inability to provide basic services to the Iraqi people such as electricity and water have all acted as a public relations disaster for the Bush administration. These mistakes have led to a weakening of support for the administration at home, making it more difficult for them to push through their more radical foreign policy objectives, such as "reshaping" the Middle East. In addition, with the failure to provide stability in Iraq, Washington is well aware that if they repeated the Baghdad model in Tehran, it could result in the same kind of instability seen in Iraq and thus deal a devastating blow to Middle Eastern oil output.

http://www.pinr.com/report.php?ac=view_report&report_id=89



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hap0206

12/07/03 2:06 PM

#30245 RE: harrypothead #30201

harry -- thanks for IRVING Kristol's definition of neoconservatism -- having been called such, it is good to know what it is -- I have recapped a few of his definitions and find I agree -- thanks
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(snips)
... it is the neoconservative public policies, not the traditional Republican ones, that result in popular Republican presidencies

One of these policies, most visible and controversial, is cutting tax rates in order to stimulate steady economic growth.

Neocons would prefer not to have large budget deficits, but it is in the nature of democracy--because it seems to be in the nature of human nature--that political demagogy will frequently result in economic recklessness, so that one sometimes must shoulder budgetary deficits as the cost (temporary, one hopes) of pursuing economic growth.

It is a basic assumption of neoconservatism that, as a consequence of the spread of affluence among all classes, a property-owning and tax-paying population will, in time, become less vulnerable to egalitarian illusions and demagogic appeals and more sensible about the fundamentals of economic reckoning.

Neocons do not like the concentration of services in the welfare state and are happy to study alternative ways of delivering these services.

People have always preferred strong government to weak government, although they certainly have no liking for anything that smacks of overly intrusive government. Neocons feel at home in today's America to a degree that more traditional conservatives do not.

But it is only to a degree that neocons are comfortable in modern America. The steady decline in our democratic culture, sinking to new levels of vulgarity, does unite neocons with traditional conservatives--though not with those libertarian conservatives who are conservative in economics but unmindful of the culture. The upshot is a quite unexpected alliance between neocons, who include a fair proportion of secular intellectuals, and religious traditionalists. They are united on issues concerning the quality of education, the relations of church and state, the regulation of pornography, and the like, all of which they regard as proper candidates for the government's attention. [I agree with this only to the extent that a strick reading and application of the 1st amendment is maintained]

AND THEN, of course, there is foreign policy ... First, patriotism is a natural and healthy sentiment and should be encouraged by both private and public institutions. Precisely because we are a nation of immigrants, this is a powerful American sentiment. Second, world government is a terrible idea since it can lead to world tyranny. International institutions that point to an ultimate world government should be regarded with the deepest suspicion. Third, statesmen should, above all, have the ability to distinguish friends from enemies.

Finally, for a great power, the "national interest" is not a geographical term, except for fairly prosaic matters like trade and environmental regulation ... A large nation has ... extensive interests. And large nations, whose identity is ideological, like the Soviet Union of yesteryear and the United States of today, inevitably have ideological interests in addition to more material concerns. Barring extraordinary events, the United States will always feel obliged to defend, if possible, a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces, external or internal. That is why it was in our national interest to come to the defense of France and Britain in World War II. That is why we feel it necessary to defend Israel today, when its survival is threatened. No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary.

Behind all this is a fact: the incredible military superiority of the United States vis-à-vis the nations of the rest of the world, in any imaginable combination. ... During the 50 years after World War II, while Europe was at peace and the Soviet Union largely relied on surrogates to do its fighting, the United States was involved in a whole series of wars: the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the Kosovo conflict, the Afghan War, and the Iraq War. The result was that our military spending expanded more or less in line with our economic growth ...

Suddenly ... the United States emerged as uniquely powerful. The "magic" of compound interest over half a century had its effect on our military budget, as did the cumulative scientific and technological research of our armed forces. With power come responsibilities ...

The older, traditional elements in the Republican party have difficulty coming to terms with this new reality in foreign affairs, just as they cannot reconcile economic conservatism with social and cultural conservatism. But by one of those accidents historians ponder, our current president and his administration turn out to be quite at home in this new political environment, although it is clear they did not anticipate this role any more than their party as a whole did. As a result, neoconservatism began enjoying a second life, at a time when its obituaries were still being published.