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OncoJock

12/08/22 6:51 PM

#546093 RE: Sparks68 #546088

Pseudo progression was not really a thing until after the first immune checkpoint inhibitor, ipilimumab, was approved for use in melanoma in 2011.

These trials were likely designed before that.

-- OJ
Bullish
Bullish
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Roman516

12/08/22 7:01 PM

#546099 RE: Sparks68 #546088

You are not alone, per your comments,
"I still don’t really get the pseudo-progression argument. Why did they not see that in phase 1/2 trials? It should have been well known by phase 3, no? Liau herself said they saw it, but danced around it in her presentation Monday."
The original PFS, statistical objectives are just that, but the real results are the "OS data" , and they have proved to be more effective, and the main point is that the OS data supports the golden standard results. In other words, people are surviving longer. So, focusing on the OS date results is key factor, not the PFS, statistical objectives, IMPO.
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ilovetech

12/08/22 7:32 PM

#546115 RE: Sparks68 #546088

The challenge has to do with the limits of imaging technology up to the present day. Tumor resection decisions rely upon judgement calls based on imperfect scans.You can't see the tumor and the effected area at a granular level. Immunotherapy can appear to worsen the tumor, but after a period of time under observation, it turns out that the tumor, which was thought to have gotten bigger, in reality was just a positive inflammatory response. Subsequent scans after time to resolve shows the tumor getting smaller or even disappearing. But during that first interim scan, the timing on how they want to proceed is critical. If it's real progression, it doesn't make sense to create more vaccine, or if the confidence is high that it's peudo, then batches need to be prepared and administered at the appropriate intervals. I'm not sure, if I have it exactly right, but the bottom line is that imaging tech still has a ways to go, and as long as that's the case, PFS is not a reliable surrogate to determine treatment effectiveness.
PfS is merely a check at a given time point to guage which direction the treatment is trending. Positive translates to improved OS. As opposed to negative OS means you're dead or dying.
I don't understand why so much is being made over PFS, when it's only a marker of a trend, but useless beyond that.

ILT