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Exactly correct. Ponzi scheme.
Ok nice talking to you RD/Ks.
They claim hundreds of millions profits previous years then they need a few million loan (why?) completely destroying them with dilution trying to pay back. Come on wake up. This is a low level scam. Can you really not connect the dots?
Share printing and selling is real. Everything else doubtful. Where you get that "of course" from? Because of the awesome -98% plunge? 100% dilution last year? Worst performing stock in Norway 2017?
I see no "of course" there's some business going on. I see of course there's NO business going on from their business and actions.
There's no underlying business or means to income. That's the real problem. Only loans and share printing/selling. That's why he has to invent a lot of things that are not true to keep up the appearances. "Dilution yes but we have fruit trees". "No dividend but yes we have Angola deal". Never been to China but when I was in India a local told me when I was like this guy is trying to BS me that relax "this is the land of story tellers". Same applies here. It's normal but don't be to fool to believe in it. Money escapes and stories go on. Some people use the word "scam" for that.
What's that EU group?
It'll be 50 million new shares if they will dilute 5 cent dividend. Sell 50M at 8-9 cents to have good margin for anyone who "lends" the money and keep something to yourself and then pay divi. I'd say about 50 million new shares. And second dividend will be impossible unless it's sub-penny because of the amount of shares.
Dilution started, dividend dead.
There's a big gap between what really happens in the real world and what they announce and report.
Reported value: $780 million.
Real value: $10 million.
Reported deal: 500 million.
Affect on share price: 0,00 million.
Reported EPS: 4 million.
Shareholders yield of the EPS: 0,00 million.
Reported dividend Q4 2018: $0,05.
Paid dividend Q4: $0,00 and dilution started.
Looks like nobody believes them and rightfully so meaning they are not telling the truth... ...about anything really...
Sell ONLY 0,3% of their CLAIMED assets and they can pay $0,05 to shareholders. Pay out 60% of only last quarter CLAIMED EPS and they can pay that $0,05 to shareholders. If TRW would pay dividend half of their early CLAIMED profits Siaf share would result into enough money to pay all 3x $0,05 dividends.
Why it's so incredibly difficult to make a simple small dividend happen? Perhaps all the things they CLAIMED on paper are just utter rubbish and they make absolutely no money in real life?
4M EPS, 780M assets, dilute to pay bills? Ridiculous.
It is not Solly being Silly or reckless. It is the figures -the earnings and assets- that are fake. Nobody destroys his own company and reputation like that.
But there was no company or reputation to begin with.
They dilute because it's their income. The EPS and assets are just stories. No other explanation is believable.
The "company" has reported good earnings for many years while making horrible shareholder value loss for many years.
How you know you have a really bad stock is that it performs really bad and it has promoters who blame the market, shorters and bashers and whatever external reason.
Bad track record is there already for the company and it's promoters.
Go look the promises made and what really happened.
Proven wrong countless times.
They print 20M shares he pays $0,1 for them that's 2 million "loan" for Siaf. Siaf pays out 50% as dividend that's 1 million for the new amount of 70M shares, it's about 1,5cent dividend in exchange for 40% dilution.
Management would like that million and loan shark that deal as well.
Next time it would become impossible to pay other than sub-penny dividend since the dilution required vs. share count would get out of hand.
And now, the end is near
So I face the final curtain...
From the song "I diluted it my way".
I think this will actually happen, it's good for everyone else except the shareholders but you can't have it all, it's too much to ask!
Perfect logic. Of course they wouldn't be quiet about it and they would have set the dates already if they were going to pay. The money to pay doesn't exist.
The other logic in this is that they abused in purpose the dividend policy to announce exact sums to manipulate the share price up. And it was followed by printing/selling action, 20 million shares sold. That's quite nasty stuff.
And if we take the logic even farther it is obvious that the company has very little any kind of competence for even this share price since they feel they need to use share price manipulation instead their claimed assets/income/capabilities to lift the share.
It all reflects very badly on this company and surely has eaten a lot of trust. From the share price it is obvious tat the market doesn't believe in the dividends either. They just abused the announcements.
EPS isn't real, never reaches shareholders.
Therefore no one should pay for it. And people don't. Same applies to the unsellable assets. No sense paying for them because in real life they are of no value for shareholders, they can't stop dilution, create cash or bank relations.
10 million market value is quite much since there's complete uncertainty does this company own anything and does it have any business.
Circumstantial evidence points to that meaning lack of funding and cash, dilution, lack of trust and inability to create yield or shareholder value of any kind.
It is logical Siaf doesn't get there.
No sign of dividends, news surrounding are bad, so many failures.
Have they ever succeeded in anything?
If you can't lift claimed 4 million EPS in one quarter company with 780 million claimed assets from 10 million value upwards then the market has been right and priced the share so they really have none of these things they claim.
Very easy to lift this if what they say they do and have are real. Looks like they aren't. Very simple equation and they have no solution which exposes them even further.
RD you don't get it. Market value is the only relevant thing.
The thing that has changed is that Siaf actions in real life have exposed them to what they really are. The assets and businesses produce nothing for the shareholders, no sellable assets, businesses not real or they are not entitled to the cash flows if there is something.
Emperors new clothes.
Siaf total market value is 10M. Including everything. Your 150 million aquafarms are delusional daydreams.
Siaf market value means they produce nothing and own very little or nothing of the not so expensive aquafarms.
There's been no profits, no shareholder value, only value loss.
You live in a parallel universe the Siaf story is true?
Beijing National Indoor Stadium cost was 95M.
Now that's a stadium with German architecture, built to very high standards compared to an aquafarm which can have crooked floors and rugged finishing. BNIS in the middle of Beijing and one of the architectural marvels of Beijing. It has capacity of 20 000 spectators. Surely more than 10 times valuable than some low spec aquafarm in rural China. I estimate building cost for those aquafarms to be less than 5 millions.
Anyone thinking an aquafarm costs 100 million a piece is completely delusional and wrong more than order of magnitude.
http://www.china.org.cn/top10/2011-03/29/content_22245662_3.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_National_Indoor_Stadium
Ok, so you do have some realism about it.
I make my prediction a little more accurate:
I guess somewhere around Q3 they will pay out 1-2 cents. And that will be all.
Most people suspect more or less this divi policy to fail at least somewhat. The other side of the story is that by that most people admit the announcements were actions trying to manipulate the share price up. To what extent we will find out soon.
If this goes how I see it going we can talk about almost 100% manipulation which is quite nasty misleading of the market and should be punishable. But then again it was just a "policy" which shouldn't be binding, so IMHO this was clever scamming, abuse of the concept of dividend policy. Dividend policy should be % of profits or cash flow, not a fixed sum especially if the money doesn't exist already in their bank account.
Soon we know more.
Ok, so you do have some realism about it.
I make my prediction a little more accurate:
I guess somewhere around Q3 they will pay out 1-2 cents. And that will be all.
Most people suspect more or less this divi policy to fail at least somewhat. The other side of the story is that by that most people admit the announcements were actions trying to manipulate the share price up. To what extent we will find out soon.
If this goes how I see it going we can talk about almost 100% manipulation which is quite nasty misleading of the market and should be punishable. But then again it was just a "policy" which shouldn't be binding, so IMHO this was clever scamming, abuse of the concept of dividend policy. Dividend policy should be % of profits or cash flow, not a fixed sum especially if the money doesn't exist already in their bank account.
Soon we know more.
Mixed up Q with H. You are right.
Now lets see which one of us is the expert on this company. My prediction is at the end of this year, end of H1 next year and end of H2 next year you have gotten less than 5 cents dividends from the company.
And my prediction for this year is $0,00.
What is YOUR ignorance and lie free highly educated prediction?
They pay everything as promised?
Good summary of their marketing efforts. And heads up for those wanting to believe. It's really this weird. Not bashing this is what they do and what they want people to believe.
I've been wondering do they even own one aquafarm. At least it's pretty clear no farming is going on by them. Couple of the older/smaller locations look like small town general good projects, the biggest ones are always inactive and you never have any meaningful info from there ie. harvests development stages etc. and never see Solly there, never see ready harvests, never see customers there.
I wonder what is the building cost for such building? 2 million? To me they look like the front for the operation, impossible to say who owns them. I'd think they would have sold one if they owned more than one since obviously they are not producing anything for them and need for money is pretty desperate.
The market price of 10 million for the whole company is pretty much in line with what we see they might own and direction down is also well based since they continuously fail and looks more and more likely to the market that the farms are not owned/operated by them. No business with not full ownership of anything is not worth anything and that's the direction the evidence leads to.
But soon they will prove me wrong, right?
5 cents dividend this month, and then 5 cents every quarter next year.
Do you believe this will happen? I promise to change my forum name as Mark the Liar if all this happens. I hope in turn you file a lawsuit against the company if it doesn't happen. Publishing exact $ amounts and diluting after that is pretty obvious misleading, market manipulation and stealing if you don't get the dividends.
My prediction is you will not get them.
No dividend, it's a scam.
Just like this VPN craziness here.
Those questions are feeders for their scamming.
They have had enough stories for these already and will continue to have.
They can have the perfect answer and it will change nothing.
You don't even care about shareholder value?
Dividends and share price are the ones you should be interested in.
= no dividend, delays oh yes.
They claim hundreds of millions profits past years, tens of millions EPS for Siaf and TRW this year and all they have is Siaf 10M value and very troubled. All gone for the shareholders. I don't know why you accept and defend these turns of event as a shareholder. I'd be furious.
Syndicate of FIVE banks, FIVE cash dividends.
Megaloan failure and expected "dividend policy" failure have something in common. When you lie, make a lie 5 times more arrogant so it's more believable.
By Friday we should know.
Not much excuses left afterwards. My guess is they refer it to as delay... "Megaloan" had many delays as well before it died...
If you build capex the share price should reflect the funds invested. Money can't keep on disappearing from shareholders. To me "capex building" and the other stories they tell are just stories.
Long overdue they prove themselves and if this "dividend policy" is just another "megaloan" gimmick like i think, why should anyone ever believe their stories again? It's not a story telling contest at the stock market. Shareholder value should be created and they fail at it long term, short term and in all possible ways. Stories and figures on papers yes. But where's the beef?
So where's the money?
As a share holder you should be very alarmed that a fraud has happened. As in general if you believe all the $ figures they are throwing around. Siaf shareholders get only value loss and excuses. Big money disappearing and you even get dilution to seal the madness.
If i had a significant stake in this company i'd be furious, demanding answers and shareholder value and I'd be demanding instant stop to all kinds of "capex building", dilution and whatever excuse there are for the money to disappear.
How can you take all that so lightly and defend those actions causing you to lose your investment?
The company actions make no sense to me and the shareholders here make even less sense to me.
At 780 million assets and 4 million EPS in just one quarter a 10 million company can get cash in so many different ways it should be flooding in everyone wanting a piece of the pie or selling assets or getting bank loans whatever. Absolutely no need for dilution.
But...
What Siaf does and how the money disappears leaving only debt and no shareholder value tells completely different story what they really have and how's their business in real life. It is very very far from 780M assets and 4M EPS.
The pie they are offering is sour with disappointments, poisoned with dilution and foul tasting from broken promises.
Nobody wants a piece of their pie anymore it is not at all what they advertise it to be.
No shareholder value = no investments.
This is very easy logic.
The investments have been a lie if they have continued for several years and hundreds of millions claimed to have been pumped there and end result is 10M Siaf in debt with no value, no bank relations and no trust.
We come right back to the original thing:
"Nobody sells $1 for 1,5cents"
They sell at $0,2 and claim $15 value, nobody does it if the $15 is real.
Therefore it isn't real.
If they really invested instead scammed, the real life results would be totally different.
Real money doesn't disappear.
They claimed 40% of market value EPS last quarter, 780 million assets, if that's true they don't need dilution and shady dilution loans.
It is just as you said:
-"Who would sell a dollar for 1,5 cents?"
-"Nobody"
They do, because it's a scam, the dollar value doesn't exist it's just the bait.
Siaf management does that. They know. You get lost.
ROCK what I don't get is why so many people say "i can't sell cause i'm this much down". That is the very reason to sell, because you "are this much down". I sold Carillion and Seadrill something like -30% and -50% in two batches. I got it wrong but admitted my mistake and reacted so i lost 40%. And of course these were risky they weren't the biggest investments.
It's mind boggling how people put big stakes at something like this when you KNOW there's shady history, management seems not good at all and even the freakin forum sticky says every time up there "how to start a lawsuit"...
Anyway, i don't know about your stakes if it's gotten small i guess it doesn't matter but i'd say 1/1000 chance this will jump 10x prices from this. Double or triple maybe a few percents chance if they produce really really slick press releases, but it's really a long shot IMO you can and should always sell when the fundaments for the stock have changed for worse and i think that happened a looooong time ago and it hasn't gotten any better, vice versa.
I'm not bashing I've been right.
I have €1000 bet with Handla, if they pay 5cents this year I lose.
Furthermore I have promised to stop writing at NOK 10.
If you want to keep believing in this obvious scam at P/B 0,015 and P/E 0,5 or whatnot and you think you will get rich because market is stupid and some guy in the internet forum told you this is a hidden gem and you will get rich... ROCK: it's ridiculous. You need to wake up, you've been scammed. I will win my bet with Handla, this will never reach NOK 10, and can we agree that you start learning at some point? Can you please promise me when this hits $0,10 you will say I have been right all along and stop promoting this madness, ok? At $0,05 the latest, ok?