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This is utter mockery of HJJ and his court. There seems to be no end to Goog's cheap tactics. Goog should now be punished and punished BIG time. They think they are clever by not producing all the docs and use "later this week" crap hoping that would cut into Vrng's response time. But very glad to see Vrng legal team slamming Goog. Their response was awesome. And liked the fact they didn't wait for a long time to file this. What is Goog thinking? They should have provided ALL relevant docs by 08/25. There is no "later this week" option here.
Now Goog will come back and say the docs they have provided is in compliance with HJJ's ruling. Vrng will say they are not enough. HJJ is not a technical guy. How will he decide now who is correct? That's why he should not have entered into unchartered territory like workaround and stuff. After all what Goog did till now, he hasn't still realised that Goog will just keep playing stalling tactics and nothing more.
HJJ should now penalise Goog and give a RR ruling now itself and let go of this workaround. HJJ IN GOOD FAITH GAVE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO GOOG TO PROVE THEIR WORKAROUND. GOOG MADE MOCKERY OF THAT ALSO. Hope HJJ takes notice of this and mere admonishing is NOT enough.
Goog did not expect HJJ's last ruling. I posted this few days back. They came up with this whole workaround BS hoping HJJ would reduce either the base or the rate just like he did in that Verizon case. But, HJJ did a good thing by asking Goog to provide their workaround docs. IMO that must have stumped them. He called their bluff :). And expectedly Goog did not file any workaround related docs today. Have they come to their senses? Is settlement on the cards? Tomm. is going to be interesting.
I think Goog did not expect this ruling...they must have thought what's the harm in saying we have a workaround..lets keep saying that and will deal with the workaround stuff in the appellate court...coz that gives them a lot of time to come up with some crappy documentation. But it dint work that way..HJJ did a very good thing by giving them only few days to come up with their workaround stuff..this must have caught QE by surprise. They are gonna embarass themselves on 25th. Going to be fun.
QE must have seen what HJJ did in Activision vs Verizon case and must have hoped for something similar ruling where HJJ would reduce either rate or base but looks like HJJ called QEs bluff. IMO people who are planning to sell should wait at least till 25th.
Vrng's tone is becoming increasingly caustic in the recent motions. Loving it. That tone is quite understandable considering Goog's BS antics. C'mon HJJ rule already.
But what numbers Vrng should use? HJJ ordered Goog to show the rev. numbers for that period and asked Vrng to do calcs based off that. OK..this is all fine but what Base/Rate Vrng should apply while doing the calcs? Can they come up with their own numbers or they supposed to use 3.5/20.9 or 3.5/2.09? Some are saying 3.5/20.9 is implied. If that is the case it's fine. But, some others are saying, there are no numbers mentioned specifically in the ruling. In that case, what should Vrng do? For me, if Vrng has to go ahead with calcs with no idea whatsoever about Rate/Base, then it is NOT judicial efficiency in anyway.
HJJ was supposed to decide what Base/Rate to be used based on Vrng and Goog's earlier arguments in previous motions but NOT after Vrng and Goog submit their numbers/calcs (in the next 3 weeks) coz they are just going to provide numbers NOT arguments as to which Base/Rate is the appropriate one. If he couldn't decide what Base/Rate to be used after all their earlier motions, how can he decide now just looking at the calcs.
Earlier i was in 2 minds too, but IMO HJJ implied 3.5/20.9 in his 960 ruling.
Why does HJJ have to wait for 15 days or so to rule on 822? Few months back when he said his (in)famous words - ripe for ruling, i believe it was for 822 as well. Why does he have to wait to see what Goog rev. numbers are going to be for him to rule on 822?
HJJ has got this habit of ruling on all motions pretty much at the same time. Since he ruled on 792 today, I strongly feel we might get RR ruling on Monday or Tuesday. Maybe he already ruled on RR today but clerk hasn't done his work yet :). Great action today though. I was hoping for at least $3.5+ before RR ruling...now it is at $3.74. It will be awesome if it climbs to $4 on Monday. GLTA. Finally the time has come!
What a terrible start for Goog to this whole Appeal thing. QE could have just mentioned about USPTO reexaminations in passing maybe in a line or two...but no..he had to make a BIG deal out of it..how great USPTO is..how well they look into the patents..how their word is the last and final yada yada yada :)). It came back to bite him BIG time now. If the appellate court agrees to what Vrng is saying, it's almost game over for Goog in the appellate court. Their case was already weak to begin with..it will be terribly weak now. But, IMO appellate court will allow Goog to file corrected brief. Hoping they don't do that.
Goog/QE shot themselves in their foot. Liking it :). Just read cafc docket 47. That was a stupid move by QE bringing USPTOs 420 and 664 reexaminations in their initial brief when they knew 664 rejection was not final and 420 was still being worked on by uspto. Now that uspto confirmed 420 validity, it is going to be a pretty tricky/embarassing for QE. Appellate court may allow for a corrected brief but IMO damage is already done. QE was overconfident and his move backfired.
Goog said that Vrng noted in their motion that Msft was not found to be infringing..which actually is correct coz Msft was not found to be infringing in a court of law. It needs to be proved in a court that they are infringing..thats what i believe Vrng meant whereas Goog was found to be infringing by the jury. So Goog comparing their case with Msft doesn't make sense. I agree with you.. Goog will keep coming up with more and more crap until HJJ acts swiftly. This circus has gone for way too long.
wow! Google conveniently forgets to mention about the 6 patents Vrng got from Msft especially when Vrng in their previous motion emphasised about those 6 patents. Goog ignored it completely. Goog's cheap tricks continue!
Wow!
Guys..Vringo added to Russell 3000.. Cool.
Hi Folks..my first message here. Long and Strong BBDA for about an year now. I have been visting this IHUB pretty much every other day all these months and been spending a bit of time reading posts mostly of Pro BBDA members.
I didn't bother much about critics messages coz of their unbearable negativity. Most of their messages are downright ridiculous and infact laughable. But if that's what keeps them happy, who are we to stop right? But have to admire patience of guys like Garyst, srloan, whiplash, gg et al for taking time out and responding to some of their silly posts.
Coming back to BBDA, yesterday and todays price action was great. It was a great piece of news from BW today. He is aiming high and pushing the envelope which is good. IMHO CEOs need to be like that to make a mark in todays times.
I really dont bother even if he dilutes a bit more as long as he shows results on the ground and he is doing just that. You need money to make BIG things happen. Go BBDA. GLTA!
Yeah..finally..have been waiting for this day for so long. Hope to hear positive sales news soon. Glta!
Just wondering if short squeeze gonna happen in the next couple of business days or after 2-3 weeks once positive news starts trickling in.
12 business days are over..still no sign of ruling. Was so naive believing 'ripe' and 'judicial economy' words. Sigh
If Vrng responds saying one of these two - we decided to let go of some of the cash because we considered these patents to be quite helpful in the development of XYZ that we are currently involved in OR we are planning to monetize them down the line in hundreds of millions of dollars, what can HJJ say to that? IMO he will steer clear of this and will not comment on the Msft settlement.
Goog is telling HJJ that he is not in a position to make a ruling on this inspite of the jury verdict and what all happened in the last few months just because Vrng settled with Msft. Sounds stupid..but stupid things happened before. Seriously hoping HJJ just outright rejects this instead of asking Vrng to respond in 5 days. Ugh!
Agreed. JB has good credentials and hope going forward they do things a bit more professionally. Planning to have a long term investment in this stock. This seems to have good potential and might end up making some decent profits to all of us. GLTA.
Hoping for a pullback tomm...but the way it's been bulldozing its way through i doubt it would happen and even if it happens maybe it'd be a pretty minor dip. Thanks for your responses. GLTA.
Guys, is it too late to buy some shares here? Did i already miss the run? Looks like some nice PRs are on the way..jus wondering if there is any chance of hitting $0.1 by the end of the month.
Nope..i don't think so. $ amount looks low here with MSFT coz they got 6 patents which i believe are going to pretty valuable down the line.
This might not happen with other potential targets coz not everyone will have patents to offer which are of interest to Vringo.
Exactly..was thinking the same. Either those 6 patents are very valuable where Vrng could monetize them for hundreds of millions of dollars or maybe Msft planning to take over Vrng once HJJ ruling is out. Just wondering if today's news is meant to force Goog to settle... which might happen now that Msft has entered the picture.
Total liability limitation question - Per SEC form, the limitation on MSFT's total liability is based on the amount VRNG is going to receieve from Goog. If it is going to be substantially more than $31M, this liability limitation will no longer hold? The chances of Vrng receiving substantially more is highly likely coz if HJJ awards 5% of 20.9%, it is going to be about $900M. So, if this happens, MSFT will be paying much more $$ than just 5% of what Goog pays?
IBH, this is my take on msft & Goog settlement...
Goog: Vrng might still be interested in settling with Goog even after a favorable ruling from HJJ because this would remove a lot of uncertainty that will still be present thanks to USPTO reexam and upcoming appeal. There is no guarantee that laches will be granted and the decimal error will be fixed in the appellate court and 420 already got rejected though it is not final yet and Goog requested PTO to relook into 664. Market hates uncertainty and institutions wouldn't be getting into this stock in a big way until all this uncertainty gets cleared. Maybe this could be the reason why some posters are skeptical on a huge PPS raise even after HJJs favorable ruling. On the other hand Settlement means instant cash..more cash to handle upcoming trials..more leverage and much more smooth PPS raise. But the downside is that they may have to settle for less amount..but again it depends on their negotiation skills.
Msft: 420 rejection is not final. Ken Lang will provide his response to PTO at a future date. And I believe PTO in their 664 reexam said that Vrngs patent is valid and they did not reject it. If Msft decides to wait till all this PTO reexaminations get over, that will be another couple of years or so coz PTO take a long time to resolve all this. So up until then Msft will still be willfully infringing and if they decide to settle then they would have to pay a much much bigger amount than they would be now. Even if 420 rejection becomes final and 664 is upheld as valid Msft will still be on the hook. So they might go ahead with settlement.
All this is IMHO only.
Goog will not settle until HJJ rules IMO...and it makes sense for them not to settle coz no matter how logical and convincing Vrngs latest motion was, with HJJ u just don't know what his ruling would be. Who knows...maybe he will award 3.5% of 2.09% base or 3.5 M lumpsum either of which is what Goog is desperately hoping for. So it's early for Goog to settle unless HJJ specifically informs Goog that RR is going to be higher than 3.5% of 20.9% base so I suggest you guys settle.
I, for one, expecting 5%+ RR of 20.9% base. Hope that's what HJJ awards to Vrng.
And I also don't think he will give extra time for settlement coz he knows Goog already filed an appeal and he seemed to have made up his mind when he said this case is ripe for judgement.
IMO HJJ will rule soon coz of 2 things - one he already said he's got all the info he needs and the case is ripe for judgement. Second there's nothing new in Googs latest motion which would make HJJ delay his ruling...they pretty much repeated the same things except for the workaround point which they went into a bit more detail. But this workaround theory was torn to shreds by Vrng yesterday. Workaround will be dealt in a separate proceeding.
IMO coast is pretty clear and am expecting ruling in 5-7 business days.
3.5 % RR is not in the picture anymore..Vrng kept on talking about 5 and 7% RR. From the look of it, wouldn't be surprised if HJJ considers 5% as min. RR now. Vrng used good logic tearing Googs arguments to shreds.
Fantastic response by Vrng. Covered all the bases very nicely. Wish had more funds to buy some more shares :(
Being thorough is one thing but taking it to the last minute is disappointing.
Seriously getting restless now...does VRNG have to take it until 11:59 pm..Ugh!
It doesn't matter. It needs to be proved in a Court (new trial)that their workaround doesn't infringe VRNG's patents. Otherwise anyone can say anything. Until then VRNG needs to be paid @ X% RR.
HJJ already ignored GOOG's point related to the workaround earlier in their previous motion (in April). He didn't give any significance to it and ordered to respond in 10 days.
Seriously, who are they to decide that their workaround doesn't infringe 420/664? If it was that simple, then all the infringing parties would come up and say hey we have a workaround so we are not infringing so please close the case. Sounds really ridiculous.
I strongly believe HJJ would say, Congrats for coming up with a "workaround" so fast..but you know what? You still owe VRNG money..file a new case and prove in a court (that your workaround doesn't infringe the patents. But until then, you need to pay at X% RR.
Did GOOG release this workaround info. to SEC. They need to inform their investors that they are introducing this workaround which might affect the revenue. VRNG can easily bring this one up to trash their workaround theory but they don't even have to go that far. GOOG is desperate and it is showing.
IMO Google will point out 2.09% Royalty base (knowing their cheap tricks) in their upcoming motion and the lower end of RR which is 3.5%. Is GOOG even allowed to bring up Royalty base or are they expected to mention only RR related points? Can anyone please confirm?
Incase they mention base, VRNG will note in their response that Dr. Becker didn't mention anything about 2.09% and only 20.9% was used during the trial. JJ i believe will agree to this. Hope he doesn't spring any surprises here.
Dr. Becker gave pretty good explanation as to why 5% RR is reasonable. IMO JJ will award 5% and maybe an extra 0.5% for Willful infringement.