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Care to laugh a bit?
I know this is a serious blog .. well sort of, but this joke is ECOS related. Besides, ECOS investors could use a laugh! It's PG-13=ish rated ...
I heard that at one of the ECOS potential Korean poultry customer's farms (that's not the joke, that the tie to ECOS), there was a chick-friendly horse that likes to hang out and chat with the chickens on the farm. One day, the fuel burner runs out of kerosene and goes cold in the chicken house, and the chicks all start to shiver. Buurrr! The horse knows he has to do something quick, or his friend will die. He runs down to the Korean farmer's house, but the farmer has gone out for the evening for some Kim Chee. Horsey heard the farmer say they might be getting something called D-20 for the chick warmers, but there is none to be found! He runs back to the chicks, explains that there is no D-20, and suggests: "I'll come inside the hen house, and lay down, and you can all stay warm by huddling around my horse 'thingy' as it stays pretty warm down there between my hind quarters." He lays down, and the chickens all huddle around his horsey tally-whacker until they warm up.
Our horse hero saves the day! The moral of the story is ... wait for it!.......wait for it!! When you are hung like a horse, you don't need D-20 to warm-up chicks!
I heard the groan from some of you!
OK, here's the plan for certain success. We make some shinola, and stay out o' the pokey.
1) announce a major new investment thru CVP Oct 17. Make no mention that it is really thru Tontaquint, CVPs convertible debt engine. That will allow a brief spike of new investors (last Fall), and allow for 100M or so of previously converted stock to cash out at profit.
2) Remind investors via blog a few months after investment announcement that "There is a minimum time of 6 months between the time money is borrowed and the conversion can take place." It's the right thing to do.
3) Lets see .. do the math .. carry the one .... Ummm ... OK, we made the CVP announcement around Oct. 17, that means CVP can start to convert that debt around 4/17. If we produce before that, Tontaquint and other convertibles may have to convert into unpredictable share price spikes, and we want to protect them first, and they are paying our salaries. Some of these penny stockers might dump shares and turn the tables on our convertible debt providers. If we can't guarantee our debtors a profit, they may not continue to lend us money that pays our salaries.
4) Become eerily quiet. This is the fun part. Take some time off. Post a few lines on the blog once a month. Claim later to be super busy. Post-pone production via should-have-been-well-known issues like Avian Flu that broke out in January, and wrong fittings. Encourage our convertible debtors or whoever to post negatively about the company to keep the share price ridiculously low for conversion. Have these posters badly pose as good Samaritans who have nothing better to do than look out for the investing interests of strangers. Make sure no one buys in until Tontaquint has had time to convert all they want at 40% discount.
5) In June-ish, come up with some sort of, non-specific, hard to follow, but fairly good sounding news that will be vague enough to avoid trouble, and confusing enough to promote a long enough stock price pop to allow for Tontaquint and other converted debt to sell into the spike. Every share converted at 0.0001 or 0.0002 and sold at 0.0003 and above is .. well, a boat load of money. They get back all of their principle and a nice profit on their money they lent us in October.
6) Go eerily quite again, for months. Let the stock sink back to lows ... maybe 0.0001, as it will allow for any new debtors to convert again at lows, maximize profits and make us more attractive for new convertible debt.
7) Announce that we have a new investor, new contracts, and do it all again. Change the mix of convertible debtors, products (we have a bunch), and innovative applications. We can milk this cycle all the way to retirement. Hey, its worked for years ...
Indeed, 2014 will be very happy for us.
What is that you say?? But what of the faithful small investors who believed in us?? Small investors don't pay our salaries, convertible debt does! The small investor had some nerve, believing. If they had any sense, they got out on a spike. They are either ignorant, or just plain stubborn like that "Honey Badger" idgit. They didn't listen when the heard "never invest in penny stocks" They are collateral damage.
Sarcastic and Senseless in Seattle
Best wishes Marco. I have enjoyed your posts. Hope to hear from you again in June. I agree with your assessment of the share price. It will drag bottom for a painfully long while and not die, if we are lucky. My concerns all along about the continue delays is that, now, low and behold, we are looking at getting going in the HOT months in Korea, when poultry heating demands are lowest. If June hits, and the shareholders get another excuse relative to lower demand in summer ... I may join you on the sidelines as this game is getting old. I agree with you, that it really doesn't matter to faithful shareholders if this is a scam. or if the ECOS team is just ineffective at taking a much needed product to market. The result is the same for us. Hardly anyone is buying ECOS, even at 0.0002, because most have lost faith in their ability to deliver on even the simplest promises. ECOS, throw the faithful shareholder dogs like us a bone and at least respond to email, much less do something that takes a bit of effort like post an update of the orifice installation (did that occur), post a video, or redesign that lousy website as was promised in March. They are not producing D-20, and the farms are quarantined, so how busy could ECOS be? I read in the 10K that their are only 62 of us left. Email responses can't be that hard, even to say "no comment".
On a more hopeful not, this speculative investor HAS HOPE that if what little news we have received is correct, D-20 makes for healthier chicks, which may ... MAY ... help to limit future Avian Flue outbreaks. But, hey, that is the dreamer in me. The ECOS dreamers have been comatose and on life support since January (or before!) ... hope no one pulls the plug! Cheers - HB
ebiljoe: like your style! Here is to good luck on this one, we will need it, deserve it, and are desperate for it. The ECOS World Cup Bash Team doesn't need luck, to add value, or to make any sense. They have stats on their side, where we have a tougher road of DD, logic, compassion and a cool old-fashioned thing called hope. If I lose a few thousand here, I have paid for hope like I do in Vegas. I make my money off a few blue chips and mid-caps. It's good to have hope, and even fun. HB
Anytime, Lambchops. Investors and posters like you, Kennypoo and a few other here are (IMO) genuine and add real value. Unfortunately, that is like, one post per page of posting compared to the trash. I only visit boards once in a while now, as there is just too much clutter. Good advice on getting back principle and then playing with the house's money when able - I basically do the same thing. You have to, in pennyland. I don't flip, as basically don't have the time to try to time things that precisely. I have only posted to this Board, as ECOS was my first Board learning experience, but will gladly follow your moves. I agree with your assessment below, and think you have nailed it. That is also where I believe ECOS is at.
Of course, as you know, I am not bashing flippers, just saying that their strategies for using these boards are obvious, and well known by any of us lurking around in pennies and sub-pennies. They (IMO) feed on all pennies, and as mentioned, are right most of the time. The problem I see, is not with flippers, but in how they impact the few real penny stocks out there. Some legit pennies may fail, due to a lack of any speculative buyers, and any market cap. They (any real pennies that are true start-ups) can't borrow money from non-shark sources, they can't leverage Conv debt (lest they be labeled as, or become toxic), they / ECOS can dump rock bottom shares like ECOS has probably done, but as mentioned, only get a small fraction of the working capital they need due to the low price, then get bashed for dilution. All of this results in a SP below par value. Yes, there is dilution, yes,toxic debt, yes, 10 B shares auth, yes, no working capital, and yes, debt and yes, unmet promises. That is why they are 0.0002.
No answers here, but my thoughts today are that all pennies are doomed, even the good ones, unless they can produce a rabbit out of the hat. The system seems to be rigged against them, unless they can find an angel, or want to invest their own money and have deep pockets.
I agree that MS has made a few mistakes, but many of us recall things like ZaP Mail (FedEx fax strategy in the 80's), venture capitalist that said "No, thanks" to investing in Apple, when Apple was just Jobs and Woz, etc. and many have overcome mistakes.
My biggest concern (today) for ECOS, is that they may be a pioneer, in a energy market that doesn't embrace pioneers and early adopters. In otherwords, the energy market may want to keep status quo, if there is more profit for them in keeping something like M-Fuel, or D-20, out of the market. E.g., if Korean Kerosene dealers want to keep D-20 out of the market, as it has potential to cut their high margin kerosene market by 50%, we might all be screwed. Money talks. ECOS doesn't even have the money to bribe a few Korean farmers or pay some official under the table .. not that anyone would, but you get my point. Barriers to entry could be huge here, and most of us would be oblivious.
Revenue, (dare I hope for profit?) cures all missteps.
Thanks again for your post.
GLTA! HB
PeterGates: I am not at all surprised by your response to my post, below.
Lambchops: thank you for (IMO) a decent, earnest and thoughtful post. Hard to find on this Board these days, among 99% garbage from others here.
You and I, and a handful of others here can tell a poster's intent from their content. We obviously have a lot of flippers on the board, bashing and looking to fill their 0.0001's, or cash out quickly at some higher number.
As another poster pointed out, we can apply logic to 99% of negative posts. If a poster is long on this stock and holding, what sense does it make to bash the CEO as a scammer? If a poster has sold and lost money here, shouldn't they have better things to do with their time and attention of posting here.
What we all know, is that 99%+ penny and sub-penny stocks never make the big time, and that most go belly up in a short period of time. Most of the folks here know that penny's are loaded with scams, so to call any stock a scam makes you right most of the time.
99%+ penny stocks make promises, and most aren't able to keep those promises. If anyone here knows of a penny stock that isn't promising to deliver a product, service, or deliver revenue, I'd love to know the ticker.
Yes, ECOS clearly has not delivered, but that doesn't make it a scam. IMO, any pennies of sub-pennies that are delivering profitable revenue, on time and as promised ... are no longer pennies. If any readers of this post know of any sub-penny stock that has profitable revenue, please share.
I can' say from a profile if ECOS leadership is honorable. I mean, Bernie Madoff's investors knew him, and thought he was honorable. However, among all of the other negative comments about this CEO, IMO, MS is smart enough to not succumb to the pressures of shorts and penny stock flippers. (Sorry flippers! But I know most of you don't read long posts anyway.) IMO, MS ignores them,as he probably should, as they are not true investors. I also know that he could raise a lot more working capital needed to get off the ground if the stock price was not at rock bottom. He seems to understand that the only legitimate way to raise the SP, is to deliver revenue, and he isn't going to say much until ECOS can make that happen. IMO, ECOS leadership seems smart enough to know how not to violate SEC regulations. There are a million reasons why start-ups don't deliver, as promised. If not delivering as promised landed CEO's in jail, the prisons would be overflowing wITH CEO's of micro-cap stocks.
I bought ECOS, knowing I and it had maybe a 1% chance of great success. All pennies are a gamble. If any of us here bought long thinking there'd be a really big chance ECOS make it, exactly as promised, we probably bought foolishly as most pennies just don't succeed, and they all promise something.
IMO, keep the faith. If we don't go belly up and hear some good news, the flippers will cash out and we might get back to some value add posts here from some of the old timers. Then again, the flippers will be back, in-between news and events, driving the price down so they can buy low, and sell high. As one posted, "buy at 2, sell at 3" works well for them. I am not knocking their methods, as I am sure a lot of the flippers make good money, and I support that sentiment. But, unfortunately, their methods have made this and many boards, as toxic as the ECOS financing that MS has described as essentially a necessary evil, at this point.
HB
Thanks Omapere. Glad to see you are still on the Board and am happy to hear from a relative ECOS "old timer". I still believe that ECOS has the goods, but cannot (yet) deliver for various reasons. One reason is that they simply lack the human capital. "Two guys in a garage" only works one in a thousand companies. I wish MS and ECOS would start to pay resources in stock, instead of trying to keep this afloat using convertible debt.
Good to hear from you ... HB
Needing to post a follow-up. Maybe the distribution issue is just another case of me not following the content of the post correctly. The Blogs can be confusing. Maybe: "We do not want or have the ability to set-up a distribution infrastructure necessary to distribute fuel. Our customers already have that in place." on 2/6 was simply to reaffirm that D-20 is not fuel as MS has stated.
Maybe this statement recently was for clarification: "We have also modified the sales approach that will increase revenue to ECOS. We plan to bypass the distributer, and sell to the large farms directly. As long as we do not sell kerosene, we can deal directly with the farms."
Maybe the word "modified" has thrown me off, as it sounds like this is a new course. Also from 2/6: "The distributer will deliver in two containers kerosene and D-20."
Maybe ECOS should understand that the three rules of business are 1) communication 2) communication, and 3) communication.
Maybe I should stop reading the CEO blog so I wouldn't be confused? This isn't the first time for me.
Maybe I should start banking on ECOS Time Travel solution so I can go back in time to 2010 and leave myself a note to not buy ECOS.
Maybe I will quit wasting everybody's time.
HB
Distribution Concerns
Time for my monthly long diatribe on ECOS ..
I haven't had much time to read or post, so the Board may have already discussed the comment from the CEO Blog: "We plan to bypass the distributer, and sell to the large farms directly."
Are others concerned about that statement? I have asked IR to address in more detail, but have not heard a response. Hoping IR sends out a tweet or email blast on distribution logistics, as well as the ambiguity around when the QC period will end.
My serious concern on distribution is this. In the past Blog of 2/6 "Answers", it is stated "We do not want or have the ability to set-up a distribution infrastructure necessary to distribute fuel."
I call that most recent statement a 180 degree change in direction.
I imagine that the 2/6 comment was made because there are a lot of barriers to being a distributor in Korea. My best guess is that the 2/28 change in direction is a supply chain issue. It isn't as much the regulation barrier of water in fuel. I assume that D-20 is NOT very popular in the Korean Kerosene sales and distribution network, as it claims to cut Kerosene sales to chicken farms in half. If Kerosene retailers have their own distribution network, they probably not only don't want to distribute D-20, but may even go so far as NOT wanting D-20 on the market at all.
IMO, it all comes down to how D-20 is to be (or not to be) regulated in Korea. My wild guess is that if the Korean Kerosene industry doesn't embrace D-20 in their distribution network, we investors are in for rough times as the Kerosene industry may collectively use whatever political clout they have to keep D-20 out of the Korean market. Hope that I am dead wrong on this, but I am nervous when a plan changes from the stated "... we do not want, nor have the ability to set up a distribution infrastructure..." to "we plan to by-pass the distributer".
Reminds me of the plan to build a battery plant in the US, and then the recent Blog statement years after the fact that it was cost prohibited and would take $100M to do so.
On a daily basis I give more credence to the claims that this is a "string along investors" deal that benefits only those few at ECOS on a salary, and the toxic debtors.
I'd like to hear more about this plan for distribution, and why ECOS apparently and suddenly (within a month) has acquired the desire and the ability. On a positive note, maybe ECOS can contract a third party to handle distribution and include distribution costs in their fees to farmers. On the downside, maybe they will need to buy / lease vehicles, transportation tanks, etc., for which it doesn't appear they have any ready capital. More toxic debt has been their only solution to capital problems. Toxic debt can't hardly drive the SP lower than it already is at, but the inability to put a distribution network in place could take this to bid zero and close the doors.
As a long time long, I hope I am wrong about this, and that the barriers to distributing D-20 are nil. Still, I see a potential for huge issues and further delays.
If you agree, pls write IR and request an answer as to what the distribution plan is. I wouldn't guess this is top secret - they already have said they have a plan, we just want to know if it is real. What is the plan's timeline? Do they truly have the ability now, or are they going to need to buy trucks and hire people? If so, do they have the capital?
As things stand, I doubt even the possibility of revenue reported in Q1 10K. If in Q2 10K, it will be ... probably Fall this year before revenue will be posted to the all important 10K. As you all know, 8K and PRs always have the out of being "forward looking statements".
Thoughts?
PLEASE NOTE: My post contains pure speculation and guesswork. I have used my thumb in the wind, a Ouija board, and magic 8-ball in may of my guesses. When necessary, I have utilzed "rock, paper, scissors" with my left and right hands concurrently, and often lose.
Keep in mind, I am dumb enough to have ridden this stock from pennies down to current levels. Based on my investing experience, this post may possibly be 100% wrong.
For humor and comic relief only: for long time ECIS investors -- Here is my predicted CEO Blog for around 3/28/14.
"The orifices have been reduced in diameter, an I am not just talking about many investor sphincters. We are currently screwing in as many orifices as we possibly can. We are continuing to plan to probably produce exactly 800 litres D-20 per day, and imagine that a some point in the future, as will be producing a kabillion liters a day, week, month and/or year, at a native American plant located at a secret location within Area 51. We have also plans to produce element 116 in the same plant, which we plan to sell to NASA for interplanetary and potential time travel purposes. We are in discussions with Kosovo and then Kuwait, as I don't recall having mentioned them before and they are next on my alphabetical list of countries after Korea. Kosovo is mainly interested in our time travel solution, as Kosovo has seen better times. (I digress, but then again, so does my business plan.) We plan to use retired NATO red-cross C-130's and drop D-20 to farmers via parachute. We will fly over farms and chicken farmers will raise a red flag, and waive when they need a D-20 drop. I got the idea when I wanted some more meat at a Rodizio Grill and hoisted the little flag at my table." Bitter? Party of one? Your table is ready!
Thx - HB
CG09:
Great post below from Sunday, IMO. Thanks for sharing. GLTA - HB
Good post. I agree on your comments on the OTC/Pink market, and glad others see that as well. It is one of those things that beg for the statement, "it is, what it is". I believe that it can't be so overly regulated that it excludes the true pioneers from the market by way of creating over burdening bureaucracy. Yet, there are obviously holes in the process that allow for abuse. I wish they'd crack down on the toxic debtors, making it so that they can't profit as much as they do from failing businesses. The way they stand today, they make an inordinate amount of money in even the most questionable cases, with convertibles at a 40% discount to market price and no /little restrictions on converting timing or trading converted shares.
I sometimes look at the macro penny market at a micro level, having had a few honest and hard-working friends with some so-so ideas who were looking for start-up money. Who am I to say their idea isn't a money maker? I thought Crocs were a terrible shoe, that most of us would be driving pure EVs by now, and that reality TV would die years ago after the Survivor and Osborne series... (I saw we now sell shows on "Parking Wars" and the thrilling world of towing cars: "South Beach Tow". GLTA - HB
The video I really want to see coming from the Korean D-20 deal is the one showing Korean poultry farmers signing contracts and handing over Korean checks and dollars (won) to MS. We need the Money Shot! - HB
Time for ECOS / MS to deliver in Korea as promised. I have been long for years on ECOS (sadly) and a supporter in as much as an investor can support pennies and subs. In other words, I try to be realistic from the start, realizing that 99% of start-ups are either scams, and/or companies with great products and services, that simply cannot penetrate the market.
That said, I have always thought ECOS and its leadership were (I hope) the former, and that they simply have not been able to get over the barriers to entry that exist for earlier adopters of any market. Even successful start-ups have trouble getting traction to start moving.
However, I will lose the faith that ECOS is for real and struggling, if this latest CEO blog is another misdirect away from the contract reportedly in hand - Korean poultry farms and D-20. Esterhol is exciting, but so were CNT batteries, discussions with EXIM, discussions with CEO of Spicejet, discussions with Ukraine housing developers, Chile generators running on M-Feul, LOI's out the wazoo with groups such Native American's for a manufacturing plant, etc. etc., etc. At this point, I don't care if Esterhol is also scientifically proven a quick cure for cancer in addition to being a great alternative fuel.
I don't want to see another play action incomplete pass here, and that is my fear. Videos are cool, but as we all know, can also be easily faked. The SEC doesn't look at videos, they look at financial statements. Revenue is what counts, as faking revenue lands one in the pokey.
This board has always been strong. Together, lets keep the pressure on MS and let it be clearly known that we fully expect ECOS to deliver D-20 as stated, and that we will soon be seeing revenue. I expect to hear about delivery and incoming revenues in the few short weeks, with the appropriate 8K.
Keep in mind that a few months delay may take us into Spring and Summer months in Korea, during which I imagine there is much less (may no) demand for keeping the chicks warm. "Revenue before it starts to get warm" should be our motto.
Board - keep the pressure on MS, as he owes honesty and communication to his few investors. Once/IF the non-toxic debt investors (like us) bail on ECOS, nobody will win - not even CVP, Asher, nor MS, as 0.0000 SP bid means no more salaries to ECOS execs. IMO.
GLTA - HB
Thanks JMoney DCSTEVE, and KART (glad you are still around!) Hoping that recent activity cleared out a lot of Toxic. Also hoping that CVP had made the commitment to push this into production and revenue stages. That would make sense, as even convertible debt that may have to be in the picture to provide large chunks of working capital to ECOS in the near future can see just as much profit (for example) converting at 0.01 and selling at 0.09 - 0.14 as they can converting at 0.0001 and selling at 0.0009 to 0.0014. For CVP and Mr. Fife, the upside is so much bigger if ECOS delivers, than a few hundred thousand a year via Tonaquint convertible. Besides, I would hope that Tonaquint, Asher, etc., all need to actually help a start up succeed on rare occasion if they hope to be able to argue that they add any value in the face of SEC regulation on Toxic that may be in the making.
Of course, if that working capital can take ECOS into revenue and profitability, they can start to rely on their own ECOS $$$ instead of having to take Toxic terms. That will all attract media and buyers, which we desperately need.
And, remember my ECOS long position motto: "Don't tell my wife - she already thinks I am a fool" Little does she know, I put all her shoe and jewelry money, and the hardwood floor fund into ECOS! In a year, we'll either have the same old worn carpet, or wall to wall Macassar Ebony flooring!
GLTA - HB
Hi All (new and old) - Glad to see lots of diligent new peeps on the Board, along with some wise oldies and the regular post and run riff-raff. I haven't posted here forever (6+ months?), as the day job and "THE man" have been keeping me down. This is my only board I have posted on.
I also haven't been able to keep up on all the recent posts since the news came out last week on financing, so much of my ramble may have already been posted. Just wanted to share some thoughts from a long time long, who also was able to average down a bit sub 0.0004 over the past month. I keep vowing to NOT buy anymore until ECOS reports revenues and delivers, but can't help myself!
Not a flipper, MM, or much of a penny stock investor - just an investor that has loved and hated ECOS for a long time. Here's my humble take on recent events ... keep in mind, I have been foolish enough about this stock in the past to have bought stock at 0.25, so my opinion here might have the same value as some of my 0.25 shares But I also have some 0.0003's ... could never get the 0.0002's!
Many of us agree that the worst thing impacting ECOS today and in the past, is the Toxic Debt. But, as I have said for over a year, many of these start up penny stocks don't have any other choice.
Consider the recent CVP news. Most of you probably know that Tonaquint is owned by Mr. Fife. If you were CVP, would you loan money to a start up as a venture capitalist in the form of an unsecured loan, "angel money" or a unrestricted convertible loan with great terms. Heck, if I were a VC, the easiest money with the least risk is in a convertible where you get a 40% discount on the SP and no restrictions on WHEN you convert. Plus, 8% interest and payable on demand option. For that reason, I suspect at least some, if not all of the recent financing from CVP is through Tonaquint. That doesn't surprise or scare me, but I don't have my future riding on ECOS either ... just some 'Mad Money'.
Most of you probably got this, but I didn't see posted yet. I believe that from the filings of SC_13G from Tonaquint in April this year, and Asher just last week, were the main reasons for the huge dilution and add of A/O shares this summer. The major toxic debtors maxed out. Even if you only gave ECOS a loan for $100K in 2012, that is 500,000,000 in shares at 0.0002. The CDebtors get a 40% discount, so they easily could have been lower. THE FOLLOWING I AM NOT SURE OF, but it seems that the toxic debtors can't exceed 10% ownership, hence Ashers SC_13G's indicating the had 9.99% at something like 138+ million owned and 1.38 billion shares outstanding. (anyone with more info, please add) Since most Toxics' had either maxed out their ability to loan convertible debt to ECOS, or couldn't convert at new lows, everybody was locked until the huge dilution, that may have subsequently allowed for Toxics to convert at lows a few weeks ago. The Tonaquint can loan again as a sub of CVP, the announcement comes out, we get some new retail and other buyers, and the stock quadruples in a few days. Toxic waste doesn't usually hold risk, and as we all know, they sole into the recent spike.
Normally, I'd agree with those who say many of us are screwed, and that ECOS is just another company making Toxics rich. But, I think about the fact that ECOS does have a product that has reportedly been tested, is still in development stage, and has limited resources and access to capital. Nobody, including the Toxics are making as much money today, as they could be in the future if ECOS is able to deliver, and takes off. There hasn't been any insider trading to speak of, and the execs like MS stand to be filthy rich if they can deliver.
Still, I hate the Toxic Debt Death Spiral, but don't know what else is available to non-revenue pennies and sub-pennies. I saw "Something Ventured" on Netflix, and laughed when a VC in the 70's turned down financing a couple of hippes named Steve Jobs and Wozniak from the pre-silicon Valley who had something they called an Apple computer. He said Jobs smelled bad and was too arrogant for his taste, and didn't think the product would sell. BY NO MEANS THINKING OR EVEN HOPING THIS IS THE NEXT APPLE, but the documentary made me remember that even the behemoths started with a small number of people looking for capital to move their idea into production.
I optimistically gave ECOS a 5% chance of success when I first bought in, and I am still optimistic but realistic. If ECOS can use this recent influx of capital to report revenues, a trip to Vegas is probably in the cards for some of us. If ECOS fails to do more than feed the Toxic Debt monkey, keep the lights on and pay salaries come January, I don't think they'll be more than a handful of believers left, worldwide, and are likely finished.
What I'd like to know is, how much capital ECOS has to work with via this last round. In the past, it was only in the form of 100K-ish CD type transactions. That is enough to keep the lights on and pay admin expenses, take a few sales trips, etc., but presumably didn't leave enough capital to buy the materials and pay labor to build these expensive NPUs. Hence, ECOS reported contracts in the past, that may be waiting as MS reports. Some may have also expired. I know that a couple of years ago they reported revenue from 2 NPUs sent to Empress Energy in Chile (here is a link) http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110708005140/en/EcoloCap-Announces-Progress-Chile-Ukraine
Chile seems to have been testing. The odd part, was that I don't recall seeing any additional revenues from additive, if those machines are still in place in Chile, returned leases, etc.
Over the tears, the gaping hole in ECOS 8k and PR's have been in follow-up, communication and execution. I saw the CEO blog, and the commitment to weekly updates, and have only seen the finance news .. .has always made me wonder what is so tough about posting a couple of sentences, even if only to say that work is continuing. There was a 2+ month stretch of relative silence since the last communications before this recent news. I suspect that may have been necessary, but also know that the lull in news and dilution eliminated most buyers and drove the SP to historic lows .. which was good news for anyone holding unrestricted convertible debt a few weeks ago like Asher and Tonaquint.
So, best of all wishes and luck to all, no matter how it is that you make your coin. Very optimistically hoping that our CEO is just our 2013 version of a 70's hippie from the Valley ... who (liek me ) doesn't often bother to use spell-check
HB
Does anyone know if there is a conference call in number for the shareholder meeting on Friday?
As always, thanks Kennny for your wisdom and experience. This pennny stock world is fairly new to me, and all much more complex than I ever imagined. I learn something new every week.
Nikkita: Thanks for the additional information - this is very helpful. Thanks also for the education in humility, and excuse my ignorance. I learned a couple of things in the past 24 hours on posting, and one is not to rush to judge. The second is, not to let a bad day create a bad post. This is the only stock I have posted on, and the only penny stock I own. I am not a Premoum member, so much of this like L2 is news to me. I erroneously lumped you in with spammers I have seen here before. It won't happen again! Thank you for your posts. Cheers - HB
Thanks Cupcrazy - I just don't know if a reverse split is inevitable. I don't know of any cases where it works out well for the investors, even in the long run, so I am hoping it doesn't happen.
I am in US, and your English is infinately better than my Dutch!
Nikkita: Please accept my sincere apology. I wasn't aware of a transfer agent. Thanks for sharing the information. If you can also share, how is it you know who is selling, like VERT and the other ID that has been referenced? Thx - HB
Flashing the Bat Signal (for those Batman fans)
Do any of you know of anyway to regulate this ... issue we are seeing today and have seen at times? Of course, I am talking about the people who swear they went to HS with CEO and that he works at a Chicago bar, that aliens are dumping the stock because Bigfoot is behind the scam and needs to fund a summer home in the Hamptons ... you know the posts ... these people obviously prey on the fears of others, and I suspect they work in unison. They may even be paid to post, for all I know, but they obviously have an agenda and are probably acting on their ability to manipulate small cap markets.
Kennypoo, Flawless, or anybody .. is there a way to report or control this equivilant of spamming? Or are we resigned to the fact that boards are just a place where that can happen, similar to a chat room? I guess if I claim the looks of Brad Pitt, and the money of Buffet, it is going to mean a bad date for someone, but not regulated.
Thoughts?
I'd better get back to my real job of being a rockstar, jet pilot, billionaire and international French super-model. Bone-jarr! HB
Thanks MJ!
I am with you Slopak. As I always say, I knew going in that like any start-up penny, this only had a 5% chance of survival and less of going ballistic. I think we have three basic categories of posters on this Board, and that is 1) those that continue to be optimistic and realize this is a longshot 2) those that get very discouraged and even disgusted over days like today, and want to blame someone 3) those that are trying to drive the stock down temporarily, so they can buy, double up and be gone (these are the bottom feeders mentioned in my other post today.) I spend most of my time in 1), and some in 2), as those are the only two categories that count as real investors. The 3) category makes me want to blame them today. They are not investors, as they don't invest or believe in a company. 3) only believes in one thing, and that is how to "double up" on a hundred different stocks that are volatile. They are traders. They feed off of the emotions of others, and know that longs are passionate about their picks. The appear mysterious, and disappear just as quickly, just like vampires. They are not welcome, and add no value. Just check their other posts to make your own call.
So, on a horrible SP day, I am raising my glass to 90% of this Board, who have guts to decide to believe in something and take a chance, vs. those that believe in nothing, and play the markets and Board for their own gain.
Noltair - take a look at Wam's other posts, and ask him if he has ever gone long on a penny stock - and if so - which one? He's a shorter. HB
It is good to see some regular posters on a day like today, and a shame the bottom feeders show up. But, they flock to anything with big volume, and probably have separate IDs for pumping up and going long on the same stocks they will short. They are bottom feeders, so I suggest not wasting your time.
Here is an example: Mr_Lotto3000 has 12,247 posts, with over 2,346 on a site called ".0001 PICKS ONLY". He has two lifetime posts on ECOS .. both today. These bottom-feeders run in packs, and team up, so please be aware. Since they know that 95% of penny stocks end up at "no bid", they play on that and dog any stock that is in a sell off.
I'd be very cautious of anyone posting on the Board for the first time. If you haven't yet done this, click on their screen name next to their ECOS post, and you can see how many posts they have, and on what Boards. You don't need to be a premium member to do that, as I am not. These folks are essentially professional posters. Unfortunately, they can do a lot of damage. I saw one exposed who got caught being greedy and is sitting in the pokey / Club Fed, on the show "American Greed". This guy's licence plate on his Ferrari said "BID-ZERO" and he made millions by illegaly shorting penny stocks and manipulating the market.
I am not sure what caused the sell off today, and can only speculate. But I know we will unfortunately see posters like this whenever the stock has a particularly bad day. I suspect some of these bottom-feeders will be future ECOS buyers, with new posts under another sign in, and equally meaningless statements.
I saw a bunch on "greedy VERT" today and have no idea what these folks are talking about, but my guess is that they are trying to blow smoke up this Board's behind.
GLTA ('cept the Bottom Feeders, as they add no value)
hanks for the thoughts Mere1. Since you have history with MS, any chance you could share these thoughts directly with him? As you know, the faithful longs here have been beaten up pretty bad by the gap in between millions of converted shares ready to be sold, and presumably few new buyers. I believe any updates on the other projects, even being neutral in nature, would help in regards to consistency of information. My opinion is that one aspect keeping ECOS from attracting new stock buyers, is that many buyers steer clear of penny stocks that release news in many markets, and never seem to be able to bring the news of those markets to fruition. The products may be looked at as being innovative, and and the leadership as visionary, but we all know that the road to greatness is paved with innovators and visionaries that were not able to execute. I always think of historically great inventors, like the Wright Brothers, when wondering why their competitors were the ones that capitalized on their invention and seized the market. Other than the Wright prototype, I never heard of a production phase Wright aircraft. Hoping MS and ECOS don't go the way of the Wright Brothers!
Thx - HB
Mere 1: That scneario is a possibility I think worth considering and throwing in the ring.
Thanks for posting again - I've missed your insight. I have referred a couple of new comers to your post back on December 29, #4051, which provides great history and substance from a guy who has had a sit down and face-to-face with MS. For those who haven't read it, "Ecos Will Prevail", helps me to make it through weeks like this one.
Cheers - HB
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=82885990
Thanks for the post and 15 shares worth Kakaobaron ... our theories may be long shots, but they are at least in the running, as is ECOS. Cheers - HB
See how hopeful I am? Make that buy today 0.0019 ... as we are so low I foget to add zeros!
To all readers, thanks for letting me add my two cents worth today... er, make that 10 shares worth.
5 shares for your thoughts?
Cheers - HB
I'll preface this by stating that all of this is a total mystery to me. One hopeful idea of a possible scenario I have thought of and hadn't yet seen posted, is the following.
One more qualifier, is my total lack of knowledge of toxic debtors internal financial model and rules. I agree with some of the post that indicate that waiting for higher profits seems a good strategy, but my guess is that the financing machine behind these TD houses might be more conservative. Maybe they aren't allowed to speculate on holding stock when they are also speculating on loaning more to the company. Maybe they can only put so much capital at risk per penny stock. If so, maybe they have to sell held shares to cover outstanding loans.
Not sure that makes even a bit of sense to anyone, but the thought occurred to me that someone needs to raise capital to manufacture and/or buy NPUs. Even if ECOS is the buyer, they still need some cash infusion at this point, be it for manufacturing NPUs, sales expense, etc. If the only source of quick capital is a convertible note, maybe, just maybe, ECOS is needing more loans in the form of convertible debt. BUT, in this case with planned revenues, ECOS plans to repay the loans before they convert to stock and only pay the 8%. But, if my wild arse guess happens to be correct, and if TD'er can only loan more on any particular stock based on selling converted shares, then maybe the sell off is by one or more TD'er, in order to have the proper ratio to loan ECOS more money.
Wild Arse Scenario: Ahso has a limit to the amount of debt they can extend ECOS. ECOS needs an infuse to fill $350K orders, and Asho can deliver, only if Ahso sells converted stock for funding. Or, some derivative equation, like Monar needs TD to buy NPU's to start D-20 or M-Fuel production, and TD'er have to create liquidity before loaning any more money into ECOS, it's production chain or supply chain.
For your own edification, no beers were harmed in the creation of this Wild Arse scenario! It's a wild guess folks.
But again, I hold firm in my beliefs about ECOS. I also realize, hope springs eternal. Every time I think I've been a fool about this stock (and if I were to sell today, I would be, one way or another), I think about how this has played out and actually feel a little better. I mean, even though completely maddening, the PR's and path to revenue actually make some business sense to me. First, you try energy generation (Chile, Ukraine), and the tests are successful but nobody wants to layout $850K to save 20% on fuel cost on an untried technology. Same goes for me personally; I can't spend $30K upfront on a solar system for my house to save $2K a year in electric bills - and that's a proven technology. So you shift gears, saddle up with an entity that wants to be in the fuel production business, and go after a market with greater benefits in end product (all gigawatts of energy are the same, but healthier chickens is an improved product) and bigger cost savings in poultry production.
So, I hold, I wince, I buy. Bought some today at 0.019, and both wish I had more funds to buy more, and glad I didn't have more funds to buy more, if you know what I mean.
Still hoping ... and trying to not watch this stock on a daily basis ... HB
Kuddos Kakabaron! What you did is the type of thing I am thinking about as well - just raising awareness levels. That may be as simple as a short note and refering people to the 8K, website or press release, etc. I am hoping this kind of activity gets more people wanting to take a look at ECOS, interview the CEO, etc. To Kenny's point, we aren't trying to pump up false expectations, as that would do no good in the long run ... just raising the awareness level in the world forum. There are lots of non-profits, ect., that are always looking for new solutions to spotlight, and in this case, I believe ECOS has a really good story to tell and to share. No hype involved!
Cheers - HB
Kenny: Well put!