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Think there's a lot of burn out among investors... So many cries of "wolf wolf" that no matter how close things look on paper you just don't really care anymore. Will probably change, slowly, if they do actually come up with something. But it will take a lot to get the longs truly excited again, as excited as they were a couple years back. The me from 2 years back would be buying like crazy right now, the me from today will wait for at least a couple of very solid PRs before even considering it. It's really sad for the company (and for investors) but they've 100% done this to themselves.
I'm "excited" but not expecting anything amazing right away. Think this will be a slow rise. But I don't see this going down in any way. Worst case scenario the data isn't amazing but it will at the very least be reasonably competitive as far as efficiency. And ANY data we get that's backed up by a third party lab, a big reputable one, takes us from "maybe it's a scam, they have nothing whatsoever" to "legitimate startup with a real marketable product that possibly needs more tweaks in the future, worst case scenario". Of course in theory everything is possible, like them running to Mexico the day before or something but I doubt it.
My guess is they've had the unit (or maybe units) for a while already. The past PRs seemed to imply this. Plus these tests take a long time, they wouldn't commit to a firm date to have everything ready and organized in a PR less than a month away if they had no idea what the testing would be like.
You are right that people don't demand detailed figures from Apple to draw their own conclusions. But there are a couple of problems there. Comparing the credibility of Apple with that of WDRP is like comparing apples to... rotten apples. Also, Apple sells products to a very large number of people who would buy that product no matter what as soon as possible, regardless of the fact that is is inferior to competing products or far more expensive, which is very often the case. WDRP doesn't have that luxury, nobody has heard of it, it needs to prove itself. Also, Apple's products are put through numerous tests by independent reviewers and compared directly with competitors in categories like battery life, running benchmarks, even drop tests. Same goes for the auto industry etc. So even "ordinary" consumers demand these detailed results and if the companies don't offer them then they go find them somewhere else. WDRP being such a tiny company my guess is nobody will carry out these tests, other than possibly the potential manufacturers or distributors and they are unlikely to make the results public. So the only place we can get details in this case is the company itself. So overall I'd say we absolutely should expect and ask for detailed results, far far more than just "about 20% more efficient". The second to last PR went into a good amount of detail regarding how efficiency comparisons are made so hopefully they give us a lot of info.
I would have expected this to tick up a little more. I mean the news A. arrived when promised, which is new to them, B. Contained exactly what was promised, again a new direction for the company, C. contained hard, verifiable information in the name of the lab and the firm date for the results, again a new thing, and D. was good news in that the wait isn't much longer and there will be things to chew on in the mean time and the lab is a well known respected one. So all in all, yes, we still have to do more waiting but the news was good, don't get why this is just sitting there. Only negative really is all the noise around here but even that has it's silver lining.
would have expected the pps to go up at least a tiny bit before tomorrow. There isn't really anything horrible they can announce, just the name of a lab and a date, both are way more than we got so far. Even if it turns up we have to wait another month (hoping it's less) it's still a small step forward. As long as there is a PR as promised I only see this going up in the short term.
By "name and date on the 18th and all the numbers on that date" I meant the numbers released on the date they will announce, not on the 18th. It's possible they'll release some details on the 18th, maybe even the numbers but I think it's unlikely. They'll delay as much as they can, cause that's what they do...
Same here, name and date on the 18th and all the numbers on that date. Or at least all the important numbers. And I don't expect that date to be too much longer after the 18th since I think the lab has been working on it for a while. Then again with these guys u never know...
Actually it would be very easy in law to prove that Robert is not an employee, since it is spelled out right there. These terms are not vague, they have very specific meanings. That is the entire purpose of these documents, to remove any ambiguity. It even says he is not a director or officer.
And there is no reason whatsoever for the AMF to restrict Robert. The only person they had any interest in whatsoever was Andrew and even in his case it was not for anything he was directly accused of but more for his connection to the main people named in there who did have accusations spelled out for them. Naming Robert in there would be like naming UL or Design1st or the lab they used or the factory in China... I am really looking forward to the next AMF meeting so this whole mess can be put to bed.
Actually that contradicts what you said... According to that there is only ONE employee, Martel, and Simoneau is "Technical Advisor/Product Licensor". Not even Andrew is considered an employee. Which is why he was named separately in the AMF restriction. If they had intended to restrict Robert too they would have had to list him separately as well.
Anyway, why try so hard to argue that this is a scam right before they are about to come up with the results? We waited 2-3 years we can wait another month or so and lets see what they have. Lets also see what the AMF has. Why jump to conclusions and try so hard to prove something before the facts are in that will set this straight one way or another. We won't need opinions once we have facts.
As long as the wait after the 18th isn't overly long (not more than one month at most) I for one am happy with the way things are going. They cleared up whether results will be out on the 18th (will not), they restricted the shares and this time for only 2 quarters meaning they feel things are fairly far along and 6 months from now the pps will be considerably higher. And yes we have had dates before but not as firm as this and not for very specific events, things were a lot more vague. At this stage it is still 100% possible this is a total failure or even a scam but at some point with these stocks you have to go on faith and gut feeling, as soon as things are completely safe the pps reflects that and it's not a good investment anymore. That said no way would I buy more until third party results are out.
In this case sellers aren't too eager to get out because there's a decent chance we will finally get some meaningful news soon. But the buyers aren't too eager to buy either because so far the company hasn't delivered anything at all, only promises. Hence the big gap between bid and ask. Once we get news (good or bad) the pps will move in a certain direction, volume will go up and bid and ask will be close.
I absolutely agree they need to release all of those numbers and more. There is no way I would settle for just an efficiency rating. What I was saying was that as far as efficiency goes that's pretty much where it will be. And if that is the case we can also speculate that the other numbers would be fairly similar to those of existing electric tankless water heaters, whether point of entry or point of use. And the efficiency is one of the most important, if not the most important number. But yes, there is no excuse at all for them not releasing all the details at some point, hopefully not long from now.
Awesome news, thanks. Maybe with time more and more brokers will be ok.
Ummm, I think there's really only one way to honestly measure the efficiency of something like that. Energy going into the plug (watts hour or whatever) versus energy coming out as heated water (given by the volume and the difference between temperature of water going in and coming out). The 5% difference (if we are talking about 95% efficiency) will be lost as heat to the environment, either from the components in contact with the hot water or from the resistance of the electrical components. These measurements would only be taken while running the unit for a longer time, not switching it on and off so, like they have said as well, some use patterns might actually favor this unit even more over existing electrical ones.
Of course this assumes the flow is good enough for a point of use... use. If there was not enough flow for that the entire device would be pretty useless. But they did say it can be scaled for any use and that they were hooking it up to municipal water so I would not worry about that.
Technically speaking they've already announced efficiency numbers. They said they are somewhere between 95% and 100%, which is exactly what we (at least me) thought and hoped they would be. How much actual energy will actually be needed and consumed by each unit will depend on the size of that particular unit and it's purpose, whether it is meant for a whole house, point of use, trailer/camper, medical use etc etc. As an example a point of use unit will use about as much energy as the best existing electric tankless point of use unit currently for sale. Of course there are other small details to be released, which together are very important, such as the size, the price, which uses will come first, in which markets, third party confirmation of efficiency, manufacturer and many others.
Anybody try buying/selling today with brokers that had restrictions previously?
Lol apparently complex explanations go right over some people's heads. Yeah, it was fairly useless and weird to go into that in a PR but he was in no way saying that the system is inaccurate or making excuses. He was just putting things in perspective and explaining the measurement system used to rate their unit. And he was saying that the unit would be rated pretty much at the very very top of what is possible so I don't know how that is making excuses...
He also did not in any say that "the unit will not be superior in any way to existing tankless units", you said that. He said that it would not be far better than the very best efficiency units out there ONLY as far as efficiency and ONLY assuming a scenario where they run for prolonged periods of time. He also more or less said this would be the best unit out there as far as efficiency, just not a big improvement over what is already there.
Pretty much exactly what I was expecting, close to 100% efficiency but not quite 100% since nothing really ever is. The advantages will come from patterns of use (faster heating when switched on and no waste in the hot element once switched off), lack of maintenance and longer life due to no (or much less) scaling, maybe a lower price, maybe the cool factor, maybe some state or federal subsidies, maybe the capability to achieve higher temperatures faster for some uses... But overall, for a scenario where it runs continuously for extended periods of time, no significant improvement in efficiency compared to the best existing electric tankless units. Overall to me this sounds like great news, I would have bailed if they claimed some pie in the sky numbers, far better than what's out there already. As long as this is reasonably competitive the market is so huge and the potential uses so many that we will do ok even if it isn't revolutionary, which it looks like it might not be as far as efficiency at least.
Very possible but until we get hard, verifiable evidence of efficiency and a manufacturer willing to produce it, very few people here are willing to push this up any further. They've burned us waay waay too many times before. Still, giving a precise date for the next PR shows some confidence so that's a good sign but not nearly enough.
Yeah but the amount of BS we get from them goes up every month. It's hard for the pps to take off with that much crap holding it down. With some actual news, yeah I see this doing really good, even though it won't be as good as it could have been. Overall I'm cautiously optimistic but I would not dream of buying anything more at this point.
Hehe, yeah, lets watch this go over 2c. Any minute now...
If results are available on the 18th though then we might have something here...
Arguably an "awareness campaign" like this (won't call it pumping), even though it is pretty lame, would not necessarily be a bad thing IF there was something real out. But I don't understand why do it today? All they have said is they will tell us the name of the lab in 3 weeks. Yeah, it's good news but it's sooo minor, nobody will buy a stock over that. Won't go anywhere over 2c any time soon. Will prob drop back soon...
The one thing that gives me hope is that the way I read it they already know what the lab is and the lab is already performing tests (they used present tense..). This might mean that some actual results will accompany that PR. If they were to only announce the name and nothing else why not do that today, since they already know. They know it's a very respectable place and whatever so they must have a final choice already. Results being out in 3 weeks might also explain our new chatty friends...
Yeah seriously, what's with all the noise around here?? You guys started this whole thing way too soon, there's NO actual news yet. It looks like we might have some meaningful news soon, but not today. You're wasting your time until then, everyone on this board is waiting for actual facts, not fluff...
I think the account was meant as a whole company type of thing, which is why he would not say "this is Andrew", he would say "this is WDRP" but it is most likely used primarily by Andrew, him being the IR guy and all. Anyway it seems like a fairly minor detail and pretty much everything that was posted by "them" is in line with everything they've said before in PRs, emails and calls, just generic promises and righteous indignation, no change of direction to make us believe it might be someone else...
It would not be anyone other than the company on FB. If it was not them they would definitely be aware of it by now, no doubt about it. And it would be way too risky to not say something if someone was impersonating them, way too risky to let someone pretend to be them when they have absolutely no control over what that person says or promises. And anyway the FB stuff matches the vague non-committal promises made elsewhere.
With any other company that would actually be perfectly plausible, but with these guys... They may have all gone on vacation... permanently.
So nothing new at all on FB? when was the last post?
Don't know what to think anymore. They seemed so confident and so adamant that the wait was over, the product was done and results would be published within days. There were no ifs or buts or maybes. And then nothing, nothing at all for weeks and weeks... I can only think they are either very very close or have nothing at all.
You seem to "know" a lot more than I do, and be far more sure of the stuff you post. Not necessarily because it's accompanied by proof but still, very confident. The fact still remains that A. WDRP is not mentioned anywhere specifically as having done anything wrong and we are talking about a big, detailed document. If I am wrong please post where the accusations are spelled out and I don't mean just saying they were cease traded. And B. if they had a product they would not have done anything really wrong that the AMF can get them on, other than small technicalities or things their promoters may have done. They had about 400 million reasons not to mess around. If they have no product then I could not care less if it's the AMF that shuts them down or the angry investors or they run to Mexico or whatever. Either way the AMF deal is irrelevant.
It's great that the case can move forward so this whole AMF thing is put to rest. If anyone did anything wrong they will be punished and we can focus on the actual product. We all know WDRP was only listed in there as the victim, not the perpetrator so it's not like anything will happen to them. Worst case scenario something (and my guess is nothing too huge) will happen to Andrew, who is just a contractor. So the sooner this reaches a conclusion the better.
IF there is a product, a genuine, competitive product then it is very very unlikely the company did anything hugely wrong, since they knew they would make good money without funny business. So the AMF won't hurt it in any major way, maybe something small on Andrew, maybe nothing. IF there is no product then it doesn't matter how bad the AMF destroys them because we weren't getting our money back anyway. So whichever way you turn it it all still comes back to whether they have a product or not. The AMF is just a side distraction.
What's in the filings is actually there, that's what I meant by not misleading. The rest was just a poster's opinion, we've had lots of those around here, some, most, waaay off the mark. And technically speaking, if they met with UL and have gotten recommendations, have applied those recommendations and are preparing to submit it for actual testing at a later date that could easily be called "being in the process of" getting the certifications. Since the first step is making the product comply. According to them they were actually working with UL to make up a new standard since this is such a new revolutionary product. If you believe that.. But anyway it's just a technicality, bottom line is yes there has been some work done with UL and no, most likely they are not actually testing the product yet.
It is true that it appears in the filings and no I would not call it misleading. But for UL certification they need a product that is 100% finished, exactly the way it will go on the shelf for sale. If any significant changes are made after the certification I am guessing it makes it pretty useless. We can be pretty sure that they do not have a 100% ready for sale product at this point. They don't seem to even be sure which applications this will be used in first. My guess (assuming this isn't a scam or a total failure) is they have a fully functioning heat engine, including all the controls and plumbing and maybe they have even packaged it as a home water heater to some degree but not a fully completed, finalized, ready for production unit. If for no other reason that's not likely because they don't have a manufacturer yet. With no manufacturer there can't be a production ready item since not all the decisions have been made. The bottom line is it is hugely unlikely there is UL testing going on right now.
If they came out with some specific results, a video, a demonstration at a meet and greet and especially third party efficiency testing I would not have a problem waiting another year. As long as there is good solid proof. By that point the pps would have already gone up quite a bit, I would have made a decent profit and most importantly we would know that it's not some scam/failure that will eat your entire investment. But as things stand right now they delivered NOTHING, absolutely not one thing, just broken promises.
These guys should soo be in politics. Promise a lot, never actually deliver anything at all, keep delaying for years until you get elected but still get people to stick around and hope. While at the same time feigning indignation that anyone dares to question you and hold you accountable and blaming it on "the other side". They are awesome...
Lol it's going to be another 3 years of delays and BS while they tell us "no, it's only been a few weeks/months since the new company got started, ignore what happened before, we won't be talking about it". Ah WDRP, the stuff we let you get away with...
Yeah, there's nothing factual in there... Just "internal activity" and green lights... We have no clue if the product works, if it's a finished heater or just a prototype, if it's in internal testing, if it's in third party testing, what's the status with UL certification, what caused all the delays, if a manufacturer was chosen, or if at least a short list was compiled, nothing whatsoever.
I don't understand why instead of saying things like "soon, within days, round the corner, coming weeks etc" and telling us how crazy and unreasonable we are for wanting answers and updates, why instead of all that they don't just tell us what exactly it is that they are doing and what is causing the delays. They could very very easily say the product was shipped to an unnamed lab and they were told tests would be completed in 3 months or whatever. If a part breaks or there is a problem just tell us that and say we expect it to take about this long to fix/replace. Or if Robert is working on a particular aspect of it just tell us what exactly that is, for example the engine is done we're working on putting it into a functional heater. None of this stuff would threaten their intellectual property in the least, there would be no downside to it whatsoever.
We never, ever, not once, got any kind of actual information like this. And it would go sooo far in making people happy and comfortable with their investment. The pps would go up, we make money, they make money, nobody would call them up to call them names and so on, everyone wins! Nobody is asking for deadlines that are set in stone, that would be unreasonable even for a much larger company but what is wrong with some factual updates? Particularly after all the botched PRs in the last couple of years which have really tarnished their image and rightly so. Are you listening Andrew??
Lol the coming weeks as in the next 520 weeks... I want to be excited, I really do, but I'm like a dog when you pretend to throw the ball but you don't, sooner or later he just walks away and even when you do throw it he just doesn't care anymore. It's a pity, cause if they actually do have something good this could have taken off ten times more than it actually will. People are looking to unload and just be done with it, not excited anymore. They should have done what they promised and promised what they can actually do.
These guys seem to have some rare neurological condition that doesn't allow them to keep track of time... A few days could be like 60 for them. Round the corner is two years, shortly is one year, very soon is 6 months and so on.
I think investing in a penny stock is one of those times when the past is very important... The company's history of delivering what they promised in a timely fashion, of communicating clearly and of not being accused of fraud is pretty important.
That said I too believe there is a lot of potential here. Why I am still here after 2 years. But it's far from a sure thing, based on the past...