Replies to post #369 on Alternative Energy (ALTNRG)

[Toofuzzy]

Hi Bob

>>>>>It's about time we got some competition in the solar cell market! Panels have been prohibitively expensive in terms of cost per watt and I'm told they've recently gone up about 50%.

I just can't make myself fork over about $8 per watt when grid power cost me 6 3/4 cents per kilowatt hour. At 46 years of age, I probably wouldn't be around long enough to get my money back on the panels.<<<<

My take on the economics of solar is this.

1)For my own use (off the grid) where it would have cost $1500 or more to hook up the grid I hooked up a tiny dolar system that cost me $2,000 and provides 100% of my electrical usage.

2) I figured out that the cost of just the batteries (suposedly the only part that wears out)is greater than just buying the electricity.

3)I have a feeling that just the cost of the frame and the glass to make a panel (forget the actual cells, the inverter, metering, disconects, etc)is probably more than the cost of buying the electricity.

Here's why:

Each watt of solar produces on average (where I live)three watts / day or 1000watts / year. So each watt = 1kwh / year

If electricity is $.15 /kwh then if the system costs $1.50 / watt you are getting a 10% return on investment

If the system cost $3.00 / watt you would get a 5% return on investment

Now electric costs may rise in the future but....

Systems now cost $10.00 / watt installed (someone has to pay the subsidy) or 1.5% return on investment. True it is tax free and it does certainly make sence to do energy conserving investments when interest rates are low, but any investment would be better spent on conservation. But solar is sexier to some people and they can point to it on their roof and feel smug while insulation and caulking they can not see.

Even if the solar panels were free the instalation costs and balance of system equipment would still be $5.00 / watt installed.

Toofuzzy

[timhyma]

Most of what I've read says you get your return back in about 15 years- I'm sure you will live long enough to earn it back <g>.

[WHIPSPLASH]

I hear ya Bob, I'm 52 and to say I'm disappointed with the snails pace on the development and cost of viable alternative energy, especially solar, is putting it mildly.
As I've aged I find that every change I make on my current house I always shoot for the final product to be low maintenance.
So far, I don't see solar fitting that bill either.
I've waited over 30 years for this science to become the norm rather than the exception, it just hasn't happened, and isn't going to in time to benefit me. Frankly I'm frustrated because I'd love to be "green", and I'd like to tell the power companies where they can stick it, but I won't put a system in my house the may negatively effect its resale value because nobody wants to hassle with it. Or a system that my wife doesn't understand and can't maintain in her golden years if I'm no longer around.
We live in the mountains in California now in a house that just sucks up energy because we have to heat nearly nine months of the year. In the past year we purchased some land in the foothills for retirement. We chose an elevation of 1800' which keeps us above the snow because it rarely dips below freezing, and above the famous valley fog in winter.
This was the beginning of the game plan to reduce our energy needs in the future, besides being from the midwest and in the mountains the last 30 years, we've had about all the white stuff we care to deal with.
Anyway, location was key, in addition I want to do as much passive solar work as I can to cut back on heating costs.
We plan to build in the next couple/few years and I plan to go pretty conventional regarding power, but I'm looking for ideas, opinions, or experience on ways to save on energy for heating, cooling (AC), lighting etc..
For instance:
The pros and cons of radiant floor heat over conventional forced air. Hydronic or electric?
Link: http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/hackleman64.html
Again, while hydronic is the one that pulls at my "green" strings, it sounds like a pain in the butt.
So I'm thinking electric, is it more efficient than forced air?, will it save me money? Does anybody know?
Hot water, is an on demand hot water system the way to go these days, is it cheaper to only heat the water you need and not have a tank, than it is to constantly maintain a 50 gallon tank at a certain temperature?
I need answers people! LOL
And I'd rather not get those answers from a salesman.
Also would like to get a simple design for solar heating for pool water if anybody has one or a link to one.
Also, is there any opinions on wiring the house with 12 volt in addition to conventional, convert it down, to power simple things like lighting on 12 volt??? Anybody ever do anything like this?
Any ideas, opinions, or experiences on the subject over the next year or so while I'm in the design faze would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys, Whip