Replies to post #1625 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[extelecom]

Syl, you seem like a nice guy and I enjoy your posts on the other board, but I find your inclination to try and label everything on a good/bad, right/wrong, Republican/Democrat basis a little annoying.... You are beginning to remind me of my retired "Union Ironworker" neighbor who blames everything bad on the Republicans and everything positive on the Democrats. This is a totally juvenile and ignorant stance IMO. It is impossible to carry on any meaningful discussion with this guy and I hope you are not really this way also....This guy still believes that Clinton comitted no wrong....

I also find it extremely illogical for anyone posting on this thread too in any way compare what is happening in Israel / Palestine, or Afghanistan to the planned genocide that occured by the Germans in WWII against their own people and others.

BWDIK

et
"I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith - it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe." -Heinlein

[brainlessone]

who is rush?

basically this argument is simple: you either believe the israelis want peace and want to divest themselves of 3 million moslems in their midst and are driven to defend themselves against Palestinian/Arab aggression, which I beleive to be true according to historic documentation and the past 50 years of facts on the ground.

Or you some how believe that the Israelis are trying desperately to hold off freedom fighters from reclaiming what is rightfully theirs with brutal aggression, and it is the Israelis who are starting and continuing this war by continuing to occupy "Palestine" from the river to the sea.

I am much to old to even consider the right wing press. What I am telling you about is what the left wing press said when I was growing up. In the fifties and sixties and seventies, Israel was considered by the left wing to be a model of socialism and the kibbutz was glorified, with people from all over the world coming to work in the Kibbutzim. They were holding out against the crazed Arabs which only wanted to destroy them.

There has been a shift in what is considered to be fashionable by the "left wing" press in the last 30 years.

I think you are referring to rush limbaugh. i do not read him or hear him on the radio. I do look at wnd.com, which is an amalgamation of news stories, incredibly slanted commentary and some truth. If you believed everything they say, every republican would have a halo. Like everyone else I reject everything I do not beleive to be true by personal experience.

You and I were taught at an early age that throwing stones at soldiers with machine guns is not a healthy thing to do, especially when they shot your cousin a few weeks ago.

The word "occupation" has only been used for the last few years, and it is used to deliberatly obfuscate reality. Occupation to the PLO, Hams, Islamic Jihad means Tel Aviv.

The israelis do not want to be in the west bank. they would prefer to put up more cell towers. they do want a lasting peace.

The other side does not. The peaceful PLO fayadeen used to shoot people in the American Express office in downtown Jerusalem from shooting positions on top of the walls of the old city. its about 200 yards. Only tel aviv and haifa were "occupied " then.

There are currently about 3000 people in Israel who are permanently disabled from getting hit in the head with rocks thrown by children.

I have been in the west bank. there was no occupation when I was there. It was mostly empty land 15 years ago

The propaganda is manufactured to continue the strife and hurt both the people in the West bank and Gaza and the Israelis. The carlyse group wins this way too.

This is not a complicated issue. you have to chose what personal version of reality you want to believe. And then go talk to the man whose mother was stabbed to death in 1952 by an arab infitrator while she worked in the fields of a kibbutz.