Replies to post #6338 on The Jailhouse (JAIL)

[Bird of Prey]

The inmate I released was offensive. More so, as I recall, than the inmate I did not release. Their bursts of offensiveness are not the point. The point is their willingness to acknowledge the bad behaviour which landed them in jail, and renounce it.


My concern was with the conduct of the inmates while they were in jail.


I was trying to convey the message that people should be civil and avoid conflict. When Churak tried to bait scu and scu had enough sense not to rise to the bait, that was an important thing for me. Then, somewhere in there, scu said something about having done wrong and planning to do better. There's not much more that I can look for from an inmate. Those were my criteria for release, and he met them.

The question of sincerity is, of course, significant. I need to "believe" that the inmate means what he says.

I had two other (active) inmates at the time. Scu provided a clear and simple object lesson for them ... if they could look past their own pique and read the messages. If they wanted out, the formula was right there for them to see. In retrospect, it appears that it may have been too subtle.


Well, at last we get an idea of why things happened the way they did.

Here is my read of the situation.

With three inmates Fred granted the first one to "make nice" his freedom to set an example to those that remained. With the full knowledge that should the released inmate "slip" he would be able to "deal" with him later. If he did not slip, so much the better.
From Fred's point of view, a low risk, high reward scenario. However, it appears he did not factor in the "fallout" engendered when it seemed he was acting capriciously.
The inmate that *did* "get it" however had no credibility with Fred. As evidenced by repeated attempts to apologize, swear on whatever to "be good", anything (even proffered a petition). As such Fred did not have ample reason (from his POV) to release the inmate.
Frustrated, the inmate did *something* (off site? on site? the rumors are rampant) in a futile attempt to rage against the machine. The results are well known.

From, Fred's actions and this statement it seems reasonable that the recently terminated inmate, in reality, had no chance of redemption. Fred allowed the existing credibility issue to exact too high a standard of submission for the individual to accept. He was doomed before he began.
I've always called this kind of situation a "Kobayashi Maru" thanks to Star Trek's name for the No Win Scenario. The inmate could not win, and because of that Fred couldn't either.
To place an inmate in such a situation is cruel. With no opportunity for success, there is no motivation to succeed. In the end it is better to execute the condemned to end their misery.

It is often said that a society can be judged on the treatment of it's prisoners. If a message board is a microcosm of society, would IHUB be diminished by these recent actions?



The Bird of Prey
#board-381

[excel]

Since you wrote a book I will only point out a few points.

Mine is spaced out. So it may look like a book also. LOL!


b) Others are encouraged to bait, taunt, and annoy inmates for the precise purpose of determining whether they are ready for release. In the military, it's called hazing.


Hazing? Have you ever seen what REALLY goes on with hazing in the military?
Or in our schools? If you have you wouldn't use that term.

Degrading people for others enjoyment is sick and shows lack of respect.
Along with a lack of self esteem.
There are other more respectable ways to achieve the same goal.

Now that I'm done with the word hazing lets get to your statement.

So you sent him in here to taunt Joe.

After you had refused to not only answer Joes questions about what more can he do or say to prove he is ready to go out there.

And after not answering other posts like mine.

Joe knew not only he thought he was in the right.

Some of the people who had gone to war with him in the past hadn't carried a grudge but recognized the difference between right and wrong.

And you expected different results?

You have a lot left to learn about people.

I suggest counseling training classes.

Because if you think you are innocent here you need to understand human reaction more in-depth.

You set him up for the fall.

Very simple to see.


4) My job is to do my best to insure that, if they are released from jail, iHub has a reasonable assurance that they will not repeat the activities likely to land them in jail again.

This statement just goes to show how far you are out there concerning reality.

Scu was able to BS you.

It's just a matter of time with him.

He not only insulted all of I-hub management but everyone on I-hub.

Joe told you EXACTLY what he did wrong.

Told you EXACTLY what he would do out there in order to not end up back here.

He knew he was on the short rope.

He knew if he messed up he was toast.

Yet you continued to play your game with him in order to frustrate him.

Out there he could have just ignored you.

But in here you were his ticket out.

You played him like a fish on a line.

You knew exactly what would happen as there could only be one result after he told you MANY of times he would not mess up again.

Yet you played the game.

The results were there for any to see what would happen after no communication.




a) They were released because they acknowledged their error and assert that they will not repeat it.

Joe did exactly that.

He even wrote a letter on top of all the posts saying he knows he can't act that way anymore out there.

Yes, his past has to be taken into consideration.

But he can't prove a thing in here no matter what you think.

Out there after time is when it counts.

Fact is letting joe out was the most simple solution once he said yep I've messed up in the past and yes I know I'm toast if I do it again.

Because one miss step and BAM!!!

It would have been a good example to set for others that get in his situation.

But now they see all it takes to get out is to kiss ass.

Speaking of kissing ass.

That BS job scu did here............

Read all of his posts during and after jail.

If you think that was the same person posting...............well...............

Carry on!

Protect those ankles!



Excel

Don't leave your tongue in gear when your brain is idling.

[WTMHouston]

Fred:

I also appreciate the time you took in formulating that response. It sure defined several things much more clearly. Indeed, the lack of that kind of clear expression was most of the core of my original point(s). Much (or at least some) of what you wrote should probably be added to the thread header so that everyone will have continued access to it without having to search for it.

One point: you wrote:

<<1) It is true for those who are incarcerated.

a) They are in jail because of their conduct, i.e., the things they write.

b) Others are encouraged to bait, taunt, and annoy inmates for the precise purpose of determining whether they are ready for release. In the military, it's called hazing.>>

While I understand and agree with your general concept, it sure seems counterproductive when they folks first arrive. This is generally when the venom is still spewing and when emotions, rather than calm reflection, are both raw and at a peak. It is not reasonable, in my opinion, to expect most folks to be calm and reflective (and in much of any kind of mood to be reasonable) during that initial period. After a reasonable venting period, I agree 100 percent with you.

As for the remainder, while I do not agree completely with everything, it is not necessary that I agree, and I agree with enough that the few items of disagreement are not significant enough to warrant further discussion.

What I thought was most important, and what both you and Matt were willing to do and did, was address the issues in productive ways and in ways that gave everyone fair notice going forward.

Nuff said.


Troy