Replies to post #418939 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[DERBENSKI]

mlsoft

I am headed out to sin city in the am so no time to discuss this much. In essence you answered your own question.

"God is omniscient, knowing the end of everything from the beginning. He knew before He began creation everything that would happen in all the Universe for all time -- we call that the foreknowledge of God."

God then, must have known that Adam would fail before he created him. If "A" is true then "B" must be true. It is a simple concept.

"He created the Universe and all that was in it in its original, perfect state."

I guess then that he would have created Satan too. Was God surprised when he had found that the snake had tempted Eve and Adam also ate? Of course not, because he knew they would sin before he created them.

Derb

[benzdealeror2]

If God made man sinless and perfect than what God made creation corrupted him?

If Adam was perfect than why did he sin? Why did God give him the ability to sin if God knew he WOULD sin given said capability? If God created man and man created sin than God created a sinning man who either wasnt perfect or God made him perfect to be sinful.

Either way, God gave man the capability to sin when he created him. Therefor, sin is a manifestation of God.

Sorry about the length, but I was trying to make everything more clear.

[wall_rus]

A chess player tries to foresee all possible consequences to a move he is about to make. It goes without saying, that he would change his plan if he saw that his next move would jeopardice his plan, which is, of course, to win the game.

Which brings me to "God's Plan" which you so often mention. As I understand it, it is to gather the "army of the faithful" around "Him" for all eternity...."His" throng of believers. Knowing what would happen, one can only conclude that "God's Plan" was a trial by fire, know that most would fail. The statement that "God" loves all and wishes all could be saved then becomes insincere, gratuitous, empty words spoken to the losers of a game show. You can't have it both ways and be honest.