Derbenski...
"In the chronological order of events, the command not to eat the fruit from the tree was given before God created Eve. Thus Eve could not be the recipient of the original order since she was yet to be."
I answered this in my previous post:
"I did not intend to imply that God spoke directly to Eve. As you note, that is an unknown. What we do know is that Eve knew of God's command, whether it came through God Himself or the only other possibility, through Adam. She knew of the command, knew that it was God that gave the command, and knew the consequences for disobedience:
If she learned of God's command through Adam, she knew that neither she nor Adam ever lied -- lying is a sin, and they were sinless at the time, not even understanding the concept of a lie. The bottom line is that she knew the truth about God's commandment -- nothing else really matters. -- mlsoft
"When Eve communicated with the snake, the order was expanded from beyond just eating but additionally, you could not touch it as well.
We still have no proof that this was communicated by God directly to her, or if it was second hand from Adam. This second part could have even been added by Adam himself to drive home the point to stay away from the fruit."
We are told what God's command was concerning the tree of knowledge of good and evil -- you shall not eat of it lest you die. In her conversation with Satan, she embellished the command, perhaps with good intentions adding something she and Adam possibly had discussed -- "or touch it", which was not a part of God's command. The bottom line is that "touching it" was not a part of God's command. Adding to the word of God (as well as subtracting from it) has been an all too common problem that man has had throughout history and a number of times God has warned us against doing so.
Satan's answer (you shall not surely die) had a grain of truth in it in that God never mentioned dying as a punishment for touching the fruit. Satan often has grains of truth mixed in with what he tells us, in order to make the whole more believable.
While you can try to make the argument that God could have told her not to touch the fruit or that Adam could have said this to her, we cannot base theology or hermeneutics on what might have been said. I think that should be obvious, due to the disastrous results such latitude could produce.
"Yet Eve saw that it was good for food, so she must have seen other animals eating the fruit and they were not kicking the bucket. She may have noted this for some time prior to the snake incident.
In the same way, we do not have proof that the fruit could have undergone a chemical change between green fruit and ripe fruit where in the green stage the fruit would be poisonous or the possibility that eating or chewing the seeds could have led to death as well. If such were the case, it could have led to physical death."
Again, we cannot base any theology or interpretation on something that is never mentioned in Scripture. Speculation is never a sound hermeneutic, and we could speculate on an endless number of possible scenarios, all leading to incorrect conclusions and theology.
"My point is that saying "Well, eventually they died" comes off as being a weak answer. You then have to sell your case of spiritual death as being your only solution to the problem."
Actually, I thought I backed up my point pretty well, or as well as there is room for in a post to a board like this. The idea of "spiritual death" being a result of Adams sin is not something I am trying to "sell", it is a constant theme of the New Testament, repeated in many places.
Perhaps it would help to explain what the Scriptural concept of "spiritual death" entails. Spiritual death is separation from God due to sin. The instant Adam sinned, he became separated from intimate fellowship with God. It is something he could never regain by his own achievements, and the same is true for us -- our sins mean we can never have fellowship with God, or be in His presence. That is true for all eternity, and there is absolutely nothing that we can do ourselves to alter that decree. Only accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior can accomplish that, for His death in our place on the cross is the only way that allows God to forgive our sins.
That is what spiritual death means, but it is important to note that all the folks who ever lived will have eternal existence -- our souls are immortal. Physical death is only the discarding of our earthly shell in which we live while we are alive here on earth. Immediately upon physical death, our souls go to their appointed place where we are to spend all eternity -- either heaven or hell.
I hope that helps.
mlsoft
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