chev, the commercial financing barometer is typically NY prime. depending on the risk, percentage points are added or subtracted. hence the terms prime + x, or x below prime. now, that's "regular" business banking, and the prime rate currently stands at 5.0%. A typical commercial real estate construction loan might currently be priced at, say, prime + 2 or so. We are so far from that kind of banking it's not even funny. A regular bank would not typically take bonus stock for collateral, regardless of the discount. Your question is another one that Mr. Haag might be able to either handle, or point you to someone who can give you investment banking rates based on risk type. If they base off prime, it must be like prime + 10 or so. Note also that although the fed recently cut the rate by .25, lending rates did not correspond, and the yield curve is steepening. that's right, rates are actually inching upward now, even when the fed cuts. None of this answers your question, but it was the only shot i had of saying something tonight i know a very small amount about. are you still drinking?;)