Replies to post #548723 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[newmedman]

Just a question as we have delve into the realm of you being the board expert on international law. Which one of these degrees do you hold?

International law scholars typically hold a Juris Doctor (J.D.) degree, often followed by an advanced degree such as a Master of Laws (LL.M.) or a Doctor of the Science of Law (J.S.D.) for those pursuing careers in academia or high-level research. Other scholars may hold a Ph.D. in International Law, which is often a research-focused degree.

I don't think cherry picking the U.N. charter is getting you anywhere, sport. As the Marmalade Maggot would say, "you don't hold any cards" and your diatribes aren't proving a damn thing except that you only use web searches that fit your narrative.

[blackhawks]

How naïve you are. All Members shall refrain..... from harsh language, but not from invasion? Russia refrained from neither.

[fuagf]

OMOLIVES, I see you no more that saying you are ok with Russia being rewarded for an illegal invasion. Illegal because it was in violation of international law. And i know how the Baltic states would react to your position that Ukraine is better off

[...]Ukraine is the winner here. If everything stopped today...Ukraine will be the one coming out the victor, no matter what. Look at the size of their military today!...seriously. On everyone else's money compounded by their determination. That's how business works though and they have been productive.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/mailbox.aspx

for the fact they were invaded by Russia Gawd! Imagine them saying to Russia, please invade. We want to be a winner as Ukraine is. Seriously.

And no idea know how you ended up going down the Carolina Affair alleyway, but you
should have resisted the temptation to gain mileage from your cherry picking of one word.

Consider:

AI Overview

The Caroline Affair of 1837 set a legal precedent, the Caroline test, for the use of anticipatory self-defense, stating that a response to an attack must be "instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation". Today, the Caroline test continues to be a standard in international law, but it is applied with a modern interpretation in conflicts like the war in Ukraine, where Russia's justification for its invasion as self-defense has been heavily scrutinized against this framework and found to be illegitimate by many legal scholars.

The Caroline Affair (1837)

Background:
A raid by Canadian militia, acting under British authority, on the American steamer Caroline on the Niagara River during the Canadian Rebellions of 1837.

Incident:
The British burned the Caroline, cut its moorings, and set it adrift over Niagara Falls. One American was killed in the process.
Legal precedent:

The incident led to diplomatic tensions between the United States and Great Britain. U.S. Secretary of State Daniel Webster and British envoy Lord Ashburton established the Caroline test as a standard for anticipatory self-defense.

Caroline test:
This standard requires that a defensive action must be in response to an "instant, overwhelming, and leaving no choice of means, and no moment for deliberation". The force used must also be proportional to the attack, a principle articulated by Webster in the negotiations.

Ukraine today

Russia's justification:
In 2022, Russia launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, which it framed as an act of self-defense under Article 51 of the UN Charter.

Application of the Caroline test:
Many international law scholars argue that Russia's invasion does not meet the criteria of the Caroline test.

Imminence: The necessity for self-defense was not "instant" or "overwhelming" and Russia had other options, as there was no direct military attack on Russia's territory.

Necessity: Russia's actions are viewed as an act of aggression, not a necessary response to an imminent threat.

Proportionality: The scale of the invasion was disproportionate to any perceived threat.

Conclusion:
Because the Russian invasion failed to meet the Caroline test's strict criteria, many legal experts consider it to be an illegal act under international law.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=the+caroline+affair+1841+and+ukraine+today+