Replies to post #545251 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[brooklyn13]

"Turkey condemns Israel...." Turkey? You're kidding, bro, right? Might want to ask a few Kurds how they feel about Turkey's stance on indigenous peoples' rights. I guess no bar is too low in your comprehensive "Israel bad" construct.

Oh, I can access AI, too:

"Australia’s offshore detention policy (holding asylum seekers on Nauru and Manus Island) has been criticized by the United Nations Human Rights Committee and other bodies as violating the 1951 Refugee Convention and international human rights law.

Concerns include indefinite detention, inadequate medical care, and inhumane treatment"

"UN committees have criticized Australia for failing to adequately protect the rights of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

Issues include land rights, incarceration rates, and health disparities, sometimes seen as inconsistent with the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP)."

I've written here, repeatedly, (although this opinion is roundly ignored) that I stand with the Israeli's who are protesting in the streets against Netanyahu and the war. That being said, your obsession with Israel is uniformed and wierd, or maybe pathetic is the right word.

I can't check here too often, so maybe list some of the other countries you regularly deride for whatever comprehensive reasons, please, so I can understand your viewpoint better..

[brooklyn13]

p.s., since you're a Turkey-phile (I have a Turkish brother in law, so I'm not necessarily inherently biased against it)

From ChatGPT:

"Turkey and its allied Syrian National Army (SNA) have launched a major offensive (2024–2025) into northeastern Syria, targeting areas under the control of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which is Kurdish-led.

These operations included attacks on infrastructure (e.g. the Tishreen Dam), bombardments in areas like Kobani, Manbij, the Aleppo countryside, and power/water facilities.

Turkey has carried out airstrikes targeting PKK (Kurdistan Workers’ Party) bases in northern Iraq"

So, yeah, Turkey is a good source to quote for commentary on international relations and the dastardly Israelis. Way to self-own.

[fuagf]

Palestinian leader condemns Israel's assault on Gaza, rejects Hamas during UN address

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas addressed the UN General Assembly via video, accusing Israel of war crimes and declaring that Hamas will have no future role in governing Gaza.



Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas addressed the 80th session of the United Nations General Assembly via video link, after the US denied him a visa to attend in person. Source: AP / Richard Drew

Key Points

* Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas delivered his speech to the United Nations General Assembly via video.
* He described the Israeli actions in Gaza as a "war of genocide, destruction, starvation, and displacement".
* Abbas stated Hamas will have no role in governing Gaza after the war and must surrender its weapons.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has condemned Israel's military offensive in Gaza while saying Palestinians "reject" Hamas' October 7 attack on Israel and pledging that the militant group would have no role in governing Gaza after the war ends.

Abbas addressed the United Nations General Assembly in New York over video, after the United States made the unusual decision of denying him a visa to come to the conference.

Abbas told the General Assembly that Palestinians in Gaza "have been facing a war of genocide, destruction, starvation and displacement" by Israel.

Abbas said Israel was committing a "war crime and a crime against humanity", and called its nearly two-year-long assault on Gaza "one of the most horrific chapters of humanitarian tragedy of the 20th and 21st century".

Earlier this month, UN investigators from the Independent International Commission of Inquiry accused Israel of having committed and continuing to commit "genocide" .. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/israel-has-committed-genocide-in-gaza-un-inquiry-finds/vuen505p5 .. in Gaza.

Israel is also fighting a genocide case .. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/the-icj-has-ruled-israel-must-act-to-prevent-genocide-in-gaza-here-are-the-takeaways/8p10fqgmc .. at the International Court of Justice in The Hague. It has repeatedly rejected such accusations.

“The Government of Israel is implementing a long-standing project to undermine the feasibility of a Palestinian State and separate Palestinians from #Palestine. Dismantling UNRWA is a principal element of this project,” @‌UNLazzarini said at the meeting of the High-Level… pic.twitter.com/RPmUIykOhl

— UNRWA (@UNRWA) September 25, 2025

Despite laying out in gruesome detail the death and destruction in Gaza, Abbas said Palestinian authorities "reject" the action Hamas carried out on 7 October 2023, and that it does not represent their people or "their just struggle for freedom and independence".

He also laid out his vision for what government would look like in territories once the war is over, saying that the Palestinian Authority is "ready to bear full responsibility for governance and security".

Abbas' Palestinian Authority exerts limited control over parts of the West Bank under agreements reached through the Oslo peace accords that started in 1993.

It controlled the Gaza Strip up until 2006, when Hamas won parliamentary elections and took control of the Strip following a brief civil war in 2007. It does not have a presence in Gaza.

Abbas added that "Hamas will have no role to play in governance" and will have to hand over its weapons to the Palestinian authorities.

"There can be no justice if Palestine is not freed," Abbas said.

Around 1,200 people were killed in the Hamas-led attack on southern Israel in October 2023, with more than 250 taken hostage.

Israel's offensive has killed more than 65,500 Palestinians, according to Gaza health ministry figures.

VIDEO

How Australians reacted to the government's recognition of a Palestinian state

In a short but resolute speech, Abbas thanked the world leaders who have stood up for Palestinians throughout the Gaza war, saying that the recent recognition of Palestinian statehood has presented his people with hope for peace and an end to the conflict.

He welcomed the recent announcements from Australia, France, the UK and Canada to recognise them as an independent state .. https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/australia-has-formally-recongised-a-palestinian-state-which-other-nations-do/ck8z2sejn .. and called for the remaining few dozen countries to do the same.

But, he added, that symbolic recognition is not enough to address the present moment.

"The time has come for the international community to do right by the Palestinian people, so that they may obtain their rights for their legitimate rights to be rid of the occupation and to not remain a hostage to the temperament of Israeli politics, which denies our rights and continues in their injustice, oppression and aggression," Abbas said.

READ MORE
Australian doctors describe 'slaughterhouse' in Gaza hospital as medicine runs out
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/a-killing-field-australian-doctors-describe-horrific-operations-in-gaza/06663yej6

Before concluding, he sent a message of hope to the Palestinian people, saying that no matter how long the suffering continues, "its results will not break our will to live and survive".

"The dawn of freedom will emerge, and the flag of Palestine will fly high in our skies as a symbol of dignity, steadfastness and being free from the occupation," Abbas said.

"We will not leave our homeland. We will not leave our lands."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who will address the United Nations on Friday, said in a statement before Abbas' speech that Western recognition "does not obligate Israel in any way" and that "there will be no Palestinian state."

Israel struck houses and tents in central and southern Gaza on Thursday, crushing families inside and killing at least 17 Palestinians, local health officials said.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/palestinian-leader-rejects-hamas-at-un-saying-they-have-no-role-in-post-war-gaza/cbdoh9d5h

Thank you, Albanese, about bloody time.

[fuagf]

Poseurs posturing for peace -- With New U.S. Proposal to End Gaza War, a Rare Moment of Triumph for Netanyahu

"Lawless Israel continues Zionist/West's greater Israel colonization project -- Israeli air strikes in south Lebanon violate UN resolution
"Turkey condemns Israel plan to double Golan Heights population
"About time, this time -- Netanyahu’s “Greater Israel” vision provokes the ire of Arab nations
"Palestine Talks: How Israel’s education system brainwashes children - Part 1
Ehud Barak -- I understand the terrorists
Related: Palestine Has Exposed Every Lie the West Tells the World
"Murder in the ME - More than 90 killed in Gaza strikes including journalist who just became a father"
Ehud Barak: the military mastermind Israel loves to hate"""""

In President Trump’s plan, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu got almost everything he hoped for
in the end, despite mounting international isolation.

[The two war criminals pose - ]President Trump and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of
Israel outside the White House in Washington on Monday. Doug Mills/The New York Times

By David M. Halbfinger and Aaron Boxerman

Reporting from Jerusalem
Sept. 30, 2025

Heading into their meeting on Monday, the question was whether President Trump would apply enough pressure on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel to end the war in Gaza.

Ultimately, Mr. Netanyahu got almost everything he could have hoped from Mr. Trump’s proposal — a demand that Hamas release the hostages immediately and lay down its weapons, without which Israel would have carte blanche to keep pummeling Gaza.

As for Israeli troops, they would get to remain in Gaza’s perimeter for the foreseeable future. There was such a stinting nod to the aspiration of statehood for Palestinians that the proposal all but suggested they just keep dreaming. And the Palestinian Authority would be left playing no role in Gaza anytime soon.

[Insert: Yet again a poseur posture for peace.]

It was a rare moment of triumph that showed Mr. Netanyahu could still get much — if not all — of what he wanted despite Israel’s mounting international isolation. Just last week, several European countries recognized a Palestinian state over Israeli objections, while a diplomatic walkout left Mr. Netanyahu addressing a mostly empty room at the United Nations.

On Monday afternoon, standing alongside Mr. Trump, Mr. Netanyahu praised the U.S.-backed plan as fulfilling his own conditions for ending the war with Hamas. And Arab and Muslim governments, including the Palestinian Authority, appeared ready to fall in line.

As for Hamas, it would have no say at all in the future governance of the Gaza Strip, making explicit what had been left vague in earlier attempts at ending the conflict.

Still, the group and its leadership have been so decimated by the war, and it faces so much apparent pressure from Muslim countries including its patrons in Qatar and Turkey, that its acquiescence is not impossible to imagine.

Hamas’s leaders now must decide whether to accept Mr. Trump’s plan, negotiate its terms or reject it outright. All the options carry serious risks for the Palestinian armed group, which has managed to survive two years of an Israeli onslaught by fighting a dogged insurgency.

Hamas negotiators were expected to meet with Turkish officials on Tuesday in the Qatari capital, Doha, “to push for an end to the war through this plan,” according to Majed al-Ansari, a spokesman for Qatar’s foreign ministry.

On Tuesday, Mr. Trump told reporters in Washington that he would give Hamas “three or four days” to respond to the proposal.


Demonstrators gathered to call for the immediate release of hostages and an end to the war outside the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv on Monday. Ariel Schalit/Associated Press

Hamas would struggle to accept a deal that would amount to surrendering its rule in Gaza, but brushing off a clear path to ending the conflict would risk further angering Palestinians who have lived through nearly two nightmarish years of killing and devastation. Some Gazans accuse Hamas of fighting a war for its own political survival at their expense.

[Just as many worldwide accuse Netanyahu of doing.]

Ibrahim Madhoun, a Palestinian analyst close to Hamas, said the Trump plan was “based on excluding Hamas,” making it difficult for the group to accept. Hamas officials have previously said key elements, such as surrendering their weapons, would be a red line.

Hamas could still agree to the proposal — or at least accept it as a basis for negotiations — to end the war, he said. But many of the plan’s 20 other points were downright unclear, meaning that they would require protracted talks to hammer out, he added.

“Each clause is such a minefield as to require its own separate agreement,” Mr. Madhoun said.

After hearing the terms of the proposal, Mahmoud Abu Matar, a 27-year-old sheltering in central Gaza, said a vast majority of Palestinians living there would most likely support the deal so as to put an immediate end to the violence.

“We don’t want any more war and bloodshed,” he said. “The ball is now in Hamas’s court.”

Some of the most important players in the Trump-Netanyahu vision for Gaza did not speak at the White House on Monday. Among them were Arab and Muslim nations that have offered to provide troops or funding for a peacekeeping force to provide security in Gaza, including Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates.

Those countries had laid down clear conditions for their postwar involvement, including that Israel fully withdraw from Gaza and commit to a pathway to a Palestinian state. They also stipulated that the Palestinian Authority must invite them to Gaza, so they would be seen as supporting the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people rather than as another occupying power.

The plan outlined by Mr. Trump and Mr. Netanyahu met none of those conditions. Not only would Israel retain a security buffer inside Gaza’s borders, but the multinational peacekeeping force would also take possession of territory directly from the Israeli military. The Palestinian Authority, for its part, would be cut out of the picture until it so completely reformed itself that Mr. Netanyahu scoffed at the prospect as a “miraculous transformation” unlikely to happen.

[Say Hamas under extreme duress and pressure accepts the offer, one thing
is certain it does not represent high hopes for peace in the region. And
though it would offer a halt in the war criminal aggression in Gaza
in no way does it offer justice to Palestinians.]


A camp for displaced people in the Mawasi area in southern Gaza on Monday. Saher Alghorra for The New York Times

As for a Palestinian state, the proposal said only that as Gaza is rebuilt, “the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood” — if the Palestinian Authority’s reform program “is faithfully carried out.” Yet nothing was said about who would determine this or how.

Noted the deal does not require that Netanyahu retract his adamantly stated
position against the formation of an independent Palestinian state. Why?
Because Netanyahu would never accept that position.]

As favorable as the proposal appeared to Mr. Netanyahu, it did entail concessions that he could find politically costly to make. The references to Palestinian statehood someday, the encouragement that Palestinians remain in Gaza and the flat rejection of Israeli annexation of Gaza “completely shatter the far right’s dreams,” Nadav Eyal, a columnist for Yedioth Ahronoth, a centrist Israeli newspaper, wrote on Tuesday.

[Still they could accept all those phony positions couldn't they.
Tongue in cheek means much sometimes.]

The foreign ministers of eight Arab or Muslim-majority countries offered a qualified embrace of the Trump-Netanyahu proposal in a joint statement early Tuesday, affirming their readiness to cooperate with it. They made it clear, however, that they still insisted on a “full Israeli withdrawal” and on the establishment of “a just peace on the basis of the two-state solution, under which Gaza is fully integrated with the West Bank in a Palestinian state.”

[On the face of it that "qualified embrace" looks like a rejection of the deal.]

To Nimrod Novik, a veteran Israeli peace negotiator and envoy for former Prime Minister Shimon Peres, that “yes, but” was unsurprising.

“We could be in for very prolonged negotiations during which the war goes on, the hostages are at risk, Palestinians die and the ball — in terms of the need to argue with Trump — is in the Arab court,” Mr. Novik said.

More surprisingly, the Arab ministers said nothing about the Palestinian Authority.

Without any role planned for it in Gaza, the Palestinian Authority nonetheless welcomed Mr. Trump’s “sincere and determined efforts” to end the war and affirmed its “confidence in his ability to find a path toward peace.” It went on to say that it wanted “a modern, democratic and nonmilitarized Palestinian state.”

The P.A. also said that it was committed to changing textbooks that critics say demonize Israel and to abolishing the payment of stipends to Palestinian prisoners and their families. It said it would invite international scrutiny of those changes.

That response showed how much has changed since 2020, when Mr. Trump released a peace plan for the overall Israeli-Palestinian conflict that was similarly skewed toward Israel’s preferences. Back then, in an American election year, the P.A. rejected Mr. Trump’s proposal out of hand, and he was voted out of office that November.

Today, the P.A. is being allowed by Mr. Trump to cling to the hope of a future for itself. Hamas is not.

David M. Halbfinger is on his second assignment as Jerusalem bureau chief of The New York Times, leading coverage of Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. After his first tour there, from 2017 to 2021, he served as Politics editor, overseeing coverage of national politics, threats to democracy and the 2024 presidential campaign.

Aaron Boxerman is a Times reporter covering Israel and Gaza. He is based in Jerusalem.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/30/world/middleeast/trump-netanyahu-israel-gaza-war.html