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News Focus
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barnstormer

03/13/25 6:46 PM

#754102 RE: manibiotech #754100

No transparency, be it NWBO or Advent, seems to be the primary operating principle employed.
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learningcurve2020

03/13/25 7:09 PM

#754108 RE: manibiotech #754100

You don’t even know that as it’s just something Les blurted out. “Cost PLUS” is the key.
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biosectinvestor

03/14/25 12:27 AM

#754136 RE: manibiotech #754100

Don't be ridiculous. We have a good idea what is charged, we have an idea of what the likely cost is going to be to patients and we know the contract is cost +15, but we can't know for now what the reimbursement is and we also know that this is a contractual relationship that is cancelable at will by either party, with a relevant transition period for handover and licensing. NWBO owns the facilities and Flaskworks, and they may not need a contract manufacturer after a period of scale-up and approvals are resolved. They may choose to have one to develop additional facilities, but the notion 1) that they need to own Advent is complete fiction and nonsense spread by people who have either nothing better to do but spin tails and trade the stock, and others who worry all day, and allow themselves to get worked up by the tall tail crew. 2) virtually all of these cell technology companies rely on contract manufacturers prior to approval, and most will then reorganize their manufacturing. 3) Advent is primarily about people, so very likely some or all of those people would be absorbed if that makes sense, but that literally does not require buying the company, unless the company decides that a buyout to reward the efforts of Advent makes sense, but it doesn't necessarily add something "back" that isn't already there; 4) most likely however there is some great practical knowledge that can be further contracted to make new facilities closer to patients, though I do not think they need such facilities everywhere or that they will be building them at every clinic, as managing the processes of customizing, maintaining and delivering the vaccines, on time, to each patient, requires incredible care and management. Decentralization is not ideal for that kind of management and I do not think regulators would like that, at least not until this is well proven in operational efficiency and practical terms, as an approved drug. 

FlaskWorks will make building new facilities far less burdensome both to create and maintain, but it will still require capital and serious investment. 

Advent is a contract provider, and it provides a very important set of skills, which can be kept outside or absorbed, but it's not some critical piece of the revenue stream. No contract manufacturer is except in that they can help with efficiencies, and in that context, it's about cost reduction, not expansion of revenues for manufacturing.  


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exwannabe

03/14/25 9:19 AM

#754158 RE: manibiotech #754100

Well for starters we don't know the details of contract between NWBO and Advent besides that it is cost plus 15%

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False, that is a lie spread by biotechinvestor and others.

The 15% contract is for the various SOWs they have performed. The manufacturing/Specials contracts are 2 separate contracts (one for London and one for Sawston). From the last 10K page F-27

Advent BioServices Services Agreement

The Company had three operational programs with Advent: (a) an ongoing development and manufacturing program at the GMP facility in London, (b) an ongoing development and manufacturing program at the Sawston GMP facility, and (c) a one-time program for specialized work, organized into ten sets of one-time milestones, for the following: ....



Those MSA (Manufacturing Service Agreements, i.e. Specials) contracts paid Advent a total of $14.886M last year. That was not cost plus, it is a negotiated number. For that, Advent runs Specials and manufacturers some minimum amount of DCVax-L.

What is inexplicable is why would the revenue not flow to NWBO if Advent is already being paid to run the program? And if it is, why is that not disclosed as a related party transaction?

BTW, this year the mfg/Specials paid to Advent will be closer to $18M.