News Focus
News Focus
icon url

hoffmann6383

09/08/22 1:00 PM

#512051 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Good stuff ES. Wish you posted more :)
icon url

kfa670

09/08/22 1:14 PM

#512054 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Great post Squirrel
icon url

ilovetech

09/08/22 1:25 PM

#512055 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Entropic - Nice resonance to your chime, and a welcome addition to the chorus.

ILT
icon url

skitahoe

09/08/22 1:38 PM

#512058 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Great post, I was about to answer another post on a similar topic, but I think you covered it well. I would add that by the time of the halt without being unblinded NWBO had to know that the only way PFS could be made into a valid endpoint is if they could go back to every patient deemed to have progressed and determine who had actually progressed and who had pseudo progressed. I don't think they could find a way of doing this, and at that time they worked on getting the regulators to base the entire trial on OS, and also compare with historical data while immediately crossing everyone over to DCVax-L.

The company didn't need to be unblinded to know that this had to be done, and the agreement to do it was made during the halt but took year to document to the regulators satisfaction. The regulators have not fully documented it to this day.

Gary
icon url

meirluc

09/08/22 2:00 PM

#512063 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Entropic_Squirrel, if you were trying to make an independent comparison of the 65 crossover patients to the ECAs and the 35 non-crossover patients to the same ECAs, you would obtain confounding results because of the 99 placebos, the 64 crossovers constitute the more robust patients whereas the 35 non-crossovers constitute the less robust patients. Therefore, neither group can be separately compared to the rGBM ECAs.

However, taken together as an "intend to crossover group", the group of 99 can be compared to the ECAs. At 24 months from randomization (27.1 months from surgery), The overall survival curve (fig.2) of the 2018 JTM article estimated that about 39.9% of the 331 patients or 132, were still alive. According to the MAY 10 NYAS presentation, 81 of those patients were in the treatment group. Consequently the remaining 51 survivors were in the 99 patients "intend to crossover group" (81+51=132). It is easy to see that 51 of 99 alive at 24 months translates into an mOS of roughly 24 months. Not bad for a group where more than 1/3 were non crossover patients. Kudos to the crossover group.
icon url

thermo

09/08/22 2:03 PM

#512065 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

The squirrel is smart
icon url

ATLnsider

09/08/22 2:29 PM

#512077 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Thank you for chiming in Entropic_Squirrel
icon url

X Master

09/08/22 2:47 PM

#512083 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Nice response. But Hydro has amnesia and will be posting a confounding post in 20 minutes or so.
icon url

Doc logic

09/08/22 3:01 PM

#512090 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Entropic_Squirrel,

Glad you didn’t rethink your post. As you know, I am pretty bold with regard to the meaning of the missing 17 SOC/placebo patients which pseudoprogression alone does not address but enrollment to the point statistically necessary does. That reason might be a really good reason to have accumulated 10,000,000 shares and is a reason the bears never have had a good answer for. The trial data shared to date supports a halt done for positive “good news turned to bad” reasons and I suspect the rational for enrollment only to the point “statistically necessary” will be explained soon enough. I also suspect that all the more recent warning activity on this board and time lines being suggested for expected announcements will garner increased volume from investors gobbling up all they can before Thanksgiving with the realization that there will be good news before the ASM is scheduled. Best wishes.
icon url

biosectinvestor

09/08/22 3:05 PM

#512091 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

The trial was not halted, it was only a partial halt. I don’t think the reason for the partial halt is as you suggest, that a full halt, for the reasons you suggest, would be a different event and would have had to have been announced, IMHO, as it would have been a major regulatory event. I do think the crossover FEATURE of the trial, which was set from the beginning because no one would enroll, was a known potential issue. Crossover trials have a feature that is rarely discussed here that every patient is their own placebo and treatment arm. So not sure that that is fatal either. Then lastly, the regs have been re-written in the various countries to allow the ECA. So while it has not exactly been done like this before, it is not necessarily problematic.

I think the reason for the partial halt is answered in the lack of a substantial number of placebo arm patients, not in treatment patients. If the placebo arm is no longer happening, then subjecting patients to a delay in treatment is unnecessarily damaging to them. If one is going to move to an ECA, it would be unethical. And given what they knew at that point and the advice they were likely being given from regulators about what was coming, these reforms take many years, I think they knew that continuing was the best route, and that taking in more placebo arm patients was basically no longer feasible and they would get the number of patients in their treatment arm that much faster when everyone already enrolled became a treatment arm patient. There is also the very strong likelihood that the regulator and DSMB agreed on the adjustment without unblinding them in any way, as the Federal Court judge indicated and the interim analysis indicated was the case. So the adjustment to ECA was basically necessary with each regulator, the regulators fully in the know. The adjustment to OS seems to have been a likely necessary and obvious change for much longer than they likely wanted to discuss because the changes would allow critics to make all sorts of unlikely claims, as the court case and Washington Post article discuss.

So they remained silent and followed the previous path until the regulators, lastly the FDA, made a change in rules for ECA and until they had accrued enough time for all patients enrolled to change to OS from PFS, meaning even the last patients enrolled, you want a good amount of time to pass to ensure you have accumulated the time reasonable to calculate OS for all patients. I think the regulator was well aware of what was going on and was basically leading them by the nose though of course the approach of the regulator in the public course of regulation is that they provide no advice and are not responsible. But the reality is likely much closer to the reality much of the time with any regulator, in the US, you consult regularly, and get a lot of direction from that regulator, through informal consultation that is entirely deniable because the consultations are entirely informal and not part of the main process that everyone knows about. It comes with informal calls, lawyers to regulator, question and answers about pending reforms and how best to proceed.
icon url

VuBru

09/08/22 3:58 PM

#512115 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Thanks ES - Very well thought out post that summarizes the situation perfectly.
icon url

abeta

09/08/22 5:13 PM

#512129 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Thanks for the fresh air -

I am thinking -

If the UK signs off on DCVax - (but not the FDA) - we will have a Tesla-like ramp up in the UK - and the rest of the world will SOON follow. GBM grade 4 deaths (around the world) have got to exceed 36,000 a year - so there is THE motivation. $$$ is not an obstacle - but qualified doctors (for a while) might be.

We might then put our Direct efforts in the UK as a way to jumpstart the inevitable.

regards
icon url

sentiment_stocks

09/08/22 5:38 PM

#512135 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Up to the plus one top with you! :)
icon url

Dr Bala

09/08/22 6:03 PM

#512142 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Good stuff. Thanks.
icon url

eagle8

09/08/22 6:13 PM

#512147 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Great post Entropic, thank you so much for sharing.

GLTU
icon url

HyGro

09/08/22 11:56 PM

#512202 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Dr. Liau confirmed the PFS measure in 2018 and even identified that they had a new method to distinguish pseudo-progression. From her paper:

"PFS has not yet been evaluated for this publication and will be the subject of later analyses to allow for central, multi-factorial assessment by an expert panel, using criteria currently emerging as appropriate for immune therapy in this patient population where progression can be complex to determine and pseudo-progression is a known confounding phenomenon."

And Dr. Liau is using PFS as the lead efficacy endpoint for the SPORE GBM combination trial (PDl-1/ATL) with immunotherapy that was recently started.

NWBO has not made ANY statement as to the cause of the trial stoppage. FDA stops trials for SAFETY issues not for confounding -- that is settled post trial.

Placebo is safe too, the issue is does the trial show valid efficacy results or not.
icon url

learningcurve2020

09/14/22 10:26 AM

#513726 RE: Entropic_Squirrel #512050

Thanks for sharing. Why are they so timid about describing the 2015 event? Because your story seems like a somewhat reasonable and positive one, so why not run with it? Instead, in unison, they go out of their way to describe a 2011 financial halt that nobody cares about. I've posted articles that go back as far as 2009 about pseudo progression with chemo and radiation, so they had to know about it. They initially chose PFS so it must've meant they believed they could monitor it properly. If in 2015 they decided to go with OS instead than why not continue enrolling? Please don't say it was about trial finish seven years later.

Why aren't they providing information on that small group of controls who never crossed over? The question was asked by the audience but it was avoided. And, the study group they went silent on too.

Seems to me like you're putting everything on LL's trials. I've been saying that for a long time here. Could be years more.

Hey Thermo and Entropic, are you two at all bothered by LP's personal endeavors with two CDMO's? Or that the CCP are now your (Sawston's) landlord? Are you buying the C preferred here and is it being offered freely to any "Accredited" investor? You didn't want a board seat or the ability to vote, so what about now? These are worthy questions for two people who should know. It's a shame Powers can't just tell her retail that you two are the real deal. Where has she been for three years anyway? Thanks in advance for the answers.