Replies to post #405615 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[wEaReLeGiOn]

" I understand your viewpoint and it is evident and understandable why others don't"

Good, take him with you when you go.

"So, we have a Democrat as President and a host of partisan advisers, to help him make decisions. A president voted in by an ideological group, the majority of which, would not fight to save their own country."

Yes, we'll follow you and Trump all the way from the White House to the Capitol.

Right, from no where to no man's land.

[sortagreen]

"Instead of an orderly withdrawal, using Bagram Airfield to remove Americans and our arms out of Afghanistan, he chose the airport in Kabul, whereby chaos ensued and Americans, as well as billions of dollars worth of equipment. "


Fuck you, you lying, America-hating piece of shit.

Your guy surrendered Afghanistan. Drew down all the combat troops before Biden was sworn in, and created facts on the ground.

Bagram was 30 miles from town, and indefensible.

All we left in Afghanistan was the supplies we had given the Afghan security forces. There was no technology they couldn't have bought on the open market. And "billions" is bullshit. That was a number that included the whole war, including attrition, transport and training, as well as waste, fraud and abuse.

After 20 years, Afghanistan's "leadership" surrendered before we were out the door.

The Kabul airlift cost the lives of 13 military personnel and evacuated 130,000 people. It will be remembered as a massively successful operation, except on Fox. You think Bagram would have worked better? You're a fucking moron.

Fuck you, you lying, America-hating piece of shit.

[blackhawks]

Unfuckingbelievable…..not just the point you were trying to make, but that your source would so badly misrepresent, falsify, the actual question.

NOT the actual question: "Poll Asks Republicans and Democrats: If America Were Invaded, Would You Stay and Fight, or Flee?"

Actual question:

https://poll.qu.edu/poll-release?releaseid=3838

8. If you were in the same position as Ukrainians are now, do you think that you would stay and fight or leave the country?

Clearly it's not a question about leaving the U.S. but rather Ukraine.

7. Do you support or oppose accepting Ukrainian refugees into the U.S.? 91% Dems, yes 66% GOP, no.

Very little partisan split on this question in the Q poll. https://t.co/RuiRr3aMS5

— Ben Pershing (@benpershing) March 8, 2022

….while roughly eight in ten Americans (79/14) support a US military response against Russia should the Kremlin attack a NATO ally. That number includes 88 percent of Democrats. (82% of Republicans...go and look at the the poll.)

Very little partisan split on this question in the Q poll.
Quote Tweet
PollingReport.com
@pollreport
· Mar 7
... If Russian President Vladimir Putin goes beyond Ukraine and attacks a NATO country, would you support or oppose a military response from the United States?

Support 79%
Oppose 14%

(Quinnipiac U. Poll, 3/4-6/22)

And here's the fundamental weakness of your source:



https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/townhall/

Funded by / Ownership

Townhall is owned by Salem Media Group, which owns numerous right-leaning Christian-based radio stations across the USA. According to Open Secrets, Salem Media Group donates 100% to Republicans and right-leaning PACS. Online advertising generates revenue for Townhall.

Analysis / Bias

In review, Townhall almost exclusively publishes news articles that favor conservatives and utilizes strongly loaded language such as this: Shove It, House Democrats: Another Trump-Russia Story Blows Up. This story is sourced from the left-leaning Axios and right-leaning Fox News.

In another article with loaded language, by Rush Limbaugh’s brother David: Abortion Extremism Exposing Left’s Moral Contradictions, there is not a single source listed to support Mr. Limbaugh’s claims.

In general, Townhall presents story selection that always favors the right and uses negative wording to describe the left. There is little balance in story presentation, with all information favoring the right without presenting a left perspective or counter-argument.

The opinion columnists associated with Townhall have poor fact check records, such as Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, and Ben Shapiro. Straight news reporting is generally sourced properly and factual, though worded in favor of the right, while guest blog posts have an abysmal track record with fact-checkers.


As for Bagram as a feasible evacuation site?

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/afghanistan/2021/09/29/why-bagram-wouldnt-have-made-a-difference-and-more-about-the-afghanistan-exit-plan/

And while the U.S. could have surged troops to hold Bagram, strategically, it wouldn’t have done much to ease the withdrawal.

Bagram is 40 miles outside of Kabul, on a single highway, neither a feasible evacuation point nor useful to provide protection to an evacuation in Kabul.

“Let me just further add that I did not see any tactical utility to Bagram,” McKenzie.

[zab]

So we use Townhall as your source of information to decide how American's feel about going to war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townhall#:~:text=Townhall%20is%20an%20American%20politically%20conservative%20website%2C%20print,exclusive%29%20by%20a%20variety%20of%20writers%20and%20commentators.

Townhall was owned by the Heritage Foundation before being spun off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation

The Heritage Foundation promotes conservative ideals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_for_Leadership

They published Mandate for Leadership that instructed Ronald Reagan in how to perform after he was elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation

The Heritage Foundation started Climate Change Denial, Voter Fraud and the Critical Race arguments.

Why would anyone use them as a reference to go to war. Think I would look for a new advisor, or not give this one a seat at the table, they have demonstrated a true slanted version of life.

[zab]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-may-have-to-run-in-2024-during-rambling-lie-filled-south-carolina-rally-speech/ar-AAUZqWt?ocid=msedgntp

Meanwhile the Republican's answer in his own words, Trump failed to even condemn Putin's war with Ukraine, like always the Republican's cannot even decide who side they are on.


In the same speech trump claimed he sent military aide to Ukraine.


https://news.yahoo.com/white-house-confirms-trump-withheld-ukraine-military-aid-in-part-because-of-dnc-server-rumors-180854146.html

Trump, like always can change his mind, his opinion, all in the same speech, and his supporters are just fine with it, I doubt you will even condemn it.

Then he wants to be able to fire anyone in government who disagrees with him or his decisions. That sounds like Putin the person America is supposed to be going to war with. Once again, the Republican's, led by Trump have sided with Putin. Now you want America to go to war to save democracy, but Trump's democracy is what he decides, and if you disagree with him he has the right to get rid of you.

[zab]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-would-it-take-for-americans-to-support-war-against-russia/

https://news.yahoo.com/poll-74-percent-of-americans-call-russias-ukraine-invasion-unjustified-142128676.html

47 % Of Republican's think Putin is doing a great job.

[zab]

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/gas-prices-arent-high-due-to-shut-down-us-production-oil-production-in-bidens-first-year-is-on-par-with-trump/

Biden's first year as President produced more oil than the first few years of Trump.

[zab]

https://turnpikeinfo.com/news/2018/05/29/gas-price-report-for-may-28-2018/

The average gas price exceeded $ 3.00 a gallon in 2018 when Trump was in office, there was no pandemic, and there was no war, yet prices were still quite high when Trump was President.

In some regions of the country, they almost hit 4.00 a gallon, in 2018, and for some reason why was this not mentioned.

[B402]

Vietnam was a perfect example of when Pacifism was called for....A war our leaders knew for a fact we were fighting for a stalemate...

There were plenty of Anti war sentiments for WWII.....Lets not provoke Hitler and other sentiments... However, nukes were not part of that equation...

The last thing needed at a time like this is partisanship,,,, A united front....Somethings go beyond politics..

People have a right to their own opinions,,And if the can present them in a civil manner they are worth hearing out and debating with...

There are just causes with world wide ramifications when Pacifism is not the answer...I feel this is one of those times...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_World_War_II

United States Of America's Isolationism

Main article: United States non-interventionism

Numerous US anti-Semites and anti-communists during the 1930s, notably within the Mothers' movement led by Elizabeth Dilling, also opposed World War II on the basis that it would be preferable for Nazism rather than Communism to dominate Europe.[13] These women also wished to keep their own sons out of the combat US involvement in the war would necessitate, and believed the war would destroy Christianity and further spread atheistic Communism across Europe.

Henry Ford also opposed US participation in the war until the attack on Pearl Harbor and refused to manufacture airplanes and other war equipment for the British.[14] Father Charles Coughlin urged the US to keep out of the war and permit Germany to conquer Great Britain and the Soviet Union.[15] Asked Coughlin, "Must the entire world go to war for 600,000 Jews in Germany?"[16]

Isolationism was strongest in the United States, where oceans separated it on both sides from the war fronts. The German-American Bund even marched down the avenues of New York City demanding isolationism. The isolationists, led by the America First Committee, were a large, vocal, and powerful challenge to President Roosevelt's efforts to enter the war. Charles Lindbergh was perhaps the most famous isolationist. Isolationism was strongest in the Midwest with its strong German-American population.

In the US, organizations like the American Peace Mobilization and veterans of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade protested in opposition to the war, conscription, and the Lend-Lease Act. They said of Lend-Lease, "Roosevelt needs its dictatorial powers to further his aim of carving out of a warring world, the American Empire so long desired by the Wall Street money lords."[17] Students at UC Berkeley in 1940 led a large protest in opposition to the war.[18]

The Communist Party opposed the United States involvement in the early stages of World War II (until June 22, 1941, the date of the German invasion of the Soviet Union).