Replies to post #240593 on Biotech Values

[RNsidersbuying]

In this sub-link from the 'brownstone' link, Table S26 on page 67 lists in detail the causes of death in vaccinated/placebo:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2113017/suppl_file/nejmoa2113017_appendix.pdf

[DewDiligence]

Where is the link to the NEJM publication on the two studies mentioned in your post? I see only the link to an appendix, not to an actual article.

[dewophile]

The numbers are way too small over too short a duration to make any conclusion about mortality. The studies were just not powered for this. In the Pfizer study for example out of the 20000 placebo 150 or so got COVID vs say 10 or so vaccinated but overwhelmingly these were mild. Only 3 cases of severe covid in placebo out of the 160 or so.
It’s not practical to power a study for a mortality endpoint
Short of enrolling a couple million people in a RCT (not feasible) the best you can do is follow the real world data on N in the millions and this has been done.
The argument you make is specious

[biocqr]

Look at real world data. The rate for Covid cases is 5X higher for the unvaccinated vs. vaccinated and the death rate is 13X higher for unvaccinated.


Rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated

[biocqr]

The NEJM paper on the Pfizer/BioNTech trial only reported data from a 2 month follow-up. The planned 2 year follow-up was made difficult because once BNT162b2 was approved those in the placebo group were given the option of getting the vaccine and many did.

Do you put more weight on this flawed trial or the real world data which shows much higher efficacy (5X more cases if unvaxxed) and much greater protection from severe disease and death (13X more deaths if unvaxxed)?

Rates for vaccinated and unvaccinated

Here's the NEJM paper:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577

Long-Term Studies Of COVID-19 Vaccines Hurt By Placebo Recipients Getting Immunized

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/02/19/969143015/long-term-studies-of-covid-19-vaccines-hurt-by-placebo-recipients-getting-immuni

Tens of thousands of people who volunteered to be in studies of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines are still participating in follow-up research. But some key questions won't be easily answered, because many people who had been in the placebo group have now opted to take the vaccine.

People signing up for these studies were not promised special treatment, but once the FDA authorized the vaccines, their developers decided to offer the shots.

Dr. Steven Goodman, a clinical trials specialist at Stanford University, says losing those control groups makes it more difficult to answer some important questions about COVID-19 vaccines.

"We don't know how long protections lasts," he says. "We don't know efficacy against variants — for which we definitely need a good control arm — and we also don't know if there are any differences in any of these parameters by age or race or infirmity."