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bradfordbros

06/24/20 10:35 AM

#305336 RE: loanranger #305329

Ask Leo.
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BonelessCat

06/24/20 10:52 AM

#305345 RE: loanranger #305329

I’ll try this once again: two sets of the same culture in the same nutrient medium. Both are infused with the same number of virus particles. Two treatment solutions are prepared. One is a solution of B at therapeutic concentrations (2 different concentrations). The other, the placebo solution, is the solute medium only. This is not a treatment efficacy comparative study. There is no secret ingredient or known antiviral in the control. It merely establishes that by some miracle the neutral solute didn’t destroy viruses. The B solution reduced the number of virus particles by 95 and 97 percent. The control viral count remained unchanged; therefore, B is responsible for the 95 and 97 percent reduction. Again, the placebo, more accurately the control is not a comparator. It only acts to show that the only difference between the two cultures and treatments was B.
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PlentyParanoid

06/24/20 12:08 PM

#305386 RE: loanranger #305329

Standard methodology at this stage of per-clinical work is to compare with freely growing virus culture. Comparison to active antiviral substances are usually introduced later, some times as late as in phase II/III clinical trials.

I know at least two ways of calculating viral load reduction. The common ones:
1.
Control is baseline viral load in cell culture or in patient's blood. This one you encounter when docs are demonstrating treatment progress (HIV, for instance)
viral load at treatment start, baseline: A
viral load after X days in treatment: B
reduction in percent: 100*(A-B)/A
reduction in log10: log10(B/A), B< A gives negative number, B>A positive
2.
Comparison between two near identical groups of patients or cell cultures (obtained by splitting initial cell culture in two, in case you will ask). One left untreated or treated only with delivery vehicle (liquid into which study drug is dissolved for delivery a.k.a. placebo) another gets the drug in delivery vehicle.
Viral load with delivery vehicle only at evaluation time is now A.
Viral load with treatment at evaluation time is now B.

In IPIX press release for VERO (kidney) cell results there is this :
"... compared to vehicle control".
No reason to assume that methodology would have changed between kidney and lung cell tests. So, it seems that they used method 2 to calculate load reduction. Good, I prefer it because it negates effects from delivery vehicle.

So, how good are Brilacidin results? One usually compares results to similar tests done previously with other antivirals. At this point I don't know any that would approach Brilacidin score. That may change.

Last: I love to have you around, LR. You make me think hard. That's good, very good.
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Hungry_Ghost

06/24/20 12:21 PM

#305395 RE: loanranger #305329

After 5,600 posts on this board you should know all the answers to your daily list of questions.