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lostcowboy

05/26/03 3:24 AM

#8255 RE: The Grabber #8253

Hi Grabber, I have been liking the idea behind the Stochastic Oscillator myself. http://stockcharts.com/education/What/IndicatorAnalysis/indic_stochasticOscillator.html
I don't see why you could not take that formula and adjust it to use the 26 week average. You should get both a positive and negative percentage depending on where price and the average are in relationship to each other.
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Myst

05/26/03 7:18 AM

#8256 RE: The Grabber #8253

Hi Steve,

"...What is "Magic" about the 26 week moving average?"

I'm not sure about the origin of the "26 week ema", but I am aware of several "important" ema's that are generally accepted by most software vendors or charting applications. Probably the most common are the 13 period and 50 period ema's. For example, if you ever visit Clearstation.com, their charts have the 13 and 50 period ema's as default settings. Many of the better charting websites.......ie., BigCharts.com, StockCharts.com, etc., give you the option to use whatever ema's or sma's you like.

"...Could some method be used to measure percentage movement up and down from that level? And then the relative difference between these 2 be used to 'shift' the 'Sum of Settings' from center more towards the Buy or Sell sides?"

When I originally attempted to tweak AIM I tried to do something similar. I found that the nature of AIM's algorithm didn't really allow for......additional mathematical component's. At least not if you wanted to preserve the AIM model as it was intended. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, for Lichello developed a very simple, stable piece of work. Perhaps an analogy would be, he created a very fine wine that can't be altered unless one desires to produce a different flavor entirely, but still be classified as wine. (Probably not the best analogy, but I think you get the point).

Anyway, in order to use what you suggest, (a method to measure up and down from some level and then the relative difference between these 2 be used to 'shift' the 'Sum of Settings' from center more towards the Buy or Sell sides), I created X_DEV by using a 12 day sma and then structuring the algorithm so that the X_DEV bands could be spaced at different distances from the stocks 12 day sma to find it's "optimal buy-sell range".

As you know, AIM's buy-sell range and trade sizing are determined by your PC (portfolio control) and SAFE settings. With AIM, the price of the stock is all important. The price determines your SV (stock value) which is then measured against the PC and SAFE to determine if an action (buy or sell) can be made and how large or small that action should be.
Because you can't alter price, AIM's algorithm prevents much.......manipulation......to determine if that action will produce optimal results (or returns). AIM just assumes it will (produce optimal returns) based on the current size of your stock value as determined by the current price of the stock. AIM can't know (doesn't even care to know) what the current trend of price may be. This is a very important aspect of AIM and a crucial philospohical and therefore debatable topic for those that think AIM is fine the way it is and should not be altered, and those that develop all the AIM variants. It's the "black box" non-subjective vs. semi-subjective argument. Which approach is better can only be determined on an individual basis, and dependent on the individuals experience and skill level......in my opinion.

The AIM variants and X_DEV (whether X_DEV is an AIM variant is also debatable I suppose) can show optimal returns in comparison to AIM BTB because they are not limited by price alone. Most of them, certainly X_DEV, take into account the quality of price action (it's current "bias" or trend) along with it's absolute price to determine action (buy or sell).
Some AIM variants will be structured so that the "trend" can be determined as mechanically as possible. More flexible AIM variants will allow the trend or "bias" of price action to be determined both mechanically and semi-subjectively, which I feel can lead to exceptional results for those with some degree of trading experience.

The methods used to determine the quality of price action is what will separate the superior AIM variants from the less superior. I believe this is the underlying question of your post. The "magic" is not in any particular static setting, but in how the particular setting is found.

I hope that gives you something to think about as you "slather the sauce" today. g

Happy Memorial Day everyone!







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OldAIMGuy

05/26/03 9:57 AM

#8260 RE: The Grabber #8253

Hi Steve, Hope you remember to slather on some sun screen before spending the day tending to the BBQ. It looks like it's going to be a great day here in WI. Sun's out and warming up nicely.

One of the first things I did when switching from paper to computer with AIM (this was 1988, BTW!) was to plot a 26 week moving average against the price/trade history. I wanted to see what its relative "technical efficiency" was compared to this rather basic measure. As you know, I still keep the 26 week MA line on my graphs. I've been asked by people who don't know AIM how I factor in the Moving Average. There I am forced to tell them that AIM doesn't care about it!

It would seem to me that something approaching Myst's X-Dev could be developed around such a basic value as the MA. Develop a data base that shows that 80% of the time the deviation from the MA is a certain amount + or -. Then trade the 20% of the time that it varies beyond those levels. You would then be trading the "break outs."

Of course such a system would not be tied to one's costs, so would suffer at times from whiplash.

I don't know what "Magic" there is in the 26 week MA. I guess it would look the same on a daily chart with 125 days being the baseline. I just remember being very impressed that the AIM trades occurred on the "proper" side of the line most of the time.

There might be some relationship between the overall Hold Zone's size (with 30% being AIM BTB) and the natural rate of change in prices. If one could factor in the psychometrics of the investment community, one might find that it is difficult to move a price 30% in less than a certain amount of time. This would have to do with the variety of prices of stock ownership that the community owns. We could assume that it's a Bell Curve of some sort that floats around the current price. As the price shifts, the Bell Ccurve falls off center. Buying and selling takes place which shifts the Bell back toward center. However, to shift the Bell a significant amount, like 30%, takes a very large shift of ownership of the total shares outstanding.

Different classes of equity are going to have different size and shape Bell Curves. High dividend payers will differ from biotech. I guess this is because the different classes attract different groups of investors. Someone who buys for "income" tends to be closer to the Buy & Hold end of things that someone who's looking at "story stocks."

I've owned some companies stocks long enough to see their trade patterns change with time. Where once wildly volatile, as the company matured and became more consistent in earnings, etc. the amplitude and even frequency of price swings dampens. I've usually been slow to adapt.

At first blush it would seem if we're going to have a more frequent trade rate (weekly or daily VS bi-weekly, monthly or quarterly) that our base line of measurement would benefit from being shorter also. However, the longer term measure seems to still have merit. While we could be trading for smaller "round trip" gains with the price above the longer term MA, we might be setting ourselves up for disaster if the longer term trend were to change to bearish.

I would look back at my VTSS history from 1993 as verification of this. Between 1993 and 1998 VTSS very rarely dipped below its 26 week Moving Average. If we'd set up an over-ride to AIM of never making purchases unless we saw a breakdown below that measure (as I had) we would have missed many round trip, albeit lower profit, trades. However, when the price/share did dip below that measure and we finally executed our pent up buy demand, it was highly profitable. Why did I single out VTSS at that time for this treatment? It was the company's extreme P/E which held my attention.

Actually I treated GNSS in a similar fashion. However, with GNSS, it wasn't the 26 week MA that I watched, it was trailing earnings and P/E. From its peak it rather quickly passed through the 26 week "barrier" I had used on VTSS successfully. However, I'd chosen a price where the P/E would make sense if earnings were stable. I then waited to restart AIM until that price/share barrier had fallen. As it turned out, by the time that happened, I'd already "borrowed" all the cash reserve from GNSS anyway, so didn't restart it for another year! (STREWIE Award Candidate??)

Don's contribution of the Zig Zag analysis gives us insight into the "personality" of the potential stock or fund in which we would like to invest. Call it constructed experience for lack of a better term. It also can be used to test if there's been a change in the personality of an existing holding. Also, if one wanted to review the entire portfolio for AIMworthiness, Zig Zag (ZZ) offers a very handy method.

Visually ZZ gives us a nice picture of the Frequency of potential trades at a specific Amplitude. We then can decide on its AIMworthiness relative to our own business plan. It might also help us decide on where in our portfolio such an investent is best suited. For instance, if we find a fund that has relatively few ZZ peaks over three years at 30%, but has many more at 20% we might think about this one for our Retirement account. Since there's no direct taxation of capital gain in the retirement account, we would gain the most from the more frequent, but less profitable round trips.

It is encouraging to note that when we set up a weekly StockCharts.com graph with a 26 weeks as the MA and then play around with the ZZ size (our AIM Hold Zone) we can see where it starts to become less efficient in trading. Maybe at 20% ZZ we still have essentially all the trades on the "proper" side of the MA, but if we drop to even 18% we start to see many more on the "wrong" side.

My fingers are getting tired and I have to conserve strength for flipping burgers, turning bratwurst and BBQing chicken parts. I'm sure I've mentioned my Crock Pot BBQ chicken before. It's a quick pass on a hot fire for breasts, thighs, drumsticks and wings. This gives them color and grill markings, but doesn't attempt to cook it through. Then in a ratio of 2:1, mix beer with your favorite BBQ sauce in the crock pot. Load the chicken bits into the crock pot and cook on low for 12 hours. Makes a great meal with little fuss.

Thanks for the question and restarting my brain cells.

Best regards, Tom
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OldAIMGuy

05/26/03 12:39 PM

#8263 RE: The Grabber #8253

Hi Steve, Just for fun this AM, using StockCharts.com, I took
a couple of favorites from my portfolio and built three year
weekly graphs. I then played with Zig Zag all the way from 1
to 40 just to see where things occurred.

Obviously the most zigs and zags occurred at 1 and the least
at 40. That I assume we all could have guessed. However,
there appear to be places where just a percent or two shifts
the number or round trips significantly. At other places no
change occurs at all over the spread of several percentage
points. In other words, just in these two examples I found a
large degree of nonlinearity. I had seen this before, and
maybe even commented on it, but relative to our discussions
today, feel compelled to make the point again.

In one case, CGNX, large discrepancies occurred in several
spots. For fun I used the 26 week moving average and also
counted "inappropriate" or "bad" trades, where the activity
occurred on the "improper" side of the M.A.
 
ZZ Value # Of Peaks # of "bad" trades
15 24 14
16 22 12
17 21 11
18 18 9
19 18 9
20 16 7
21 15 6
22 13 4
23 12 3
24 11 3
25 9 3
26 9 3
27 8 3
28 8 3
29 7 3
30 5 2
31 5 2
32 4 1
33 3 0
34 3 0
35 3 0
-
-
40 3 0


I started the list about where the "bad" trades became about
1/2 the total trade amounts. From there both the number of
trades and "bad" trades decrease as the size of the Zig Zag
(AIM Hold Zone) increases. This is logical. However, you will
note that there are spots where we gain more in "efficiency"
or good trades with only a single point change in Hold Zone
size and little change in the number of trades. These sweet
spots may suggest our best Hold Zone sizes for an individual
equity.

Of course we could pick a different time frame for the same
company and it might give us different settings. This won't
predict the future, but does give us an idea of what settings
might be appropriate for our business model. As mentioned, in
my Individual Retirement Account I will trade with a smaller
Hold Zone usually than in my Taxable Account. This is because
there's no loss to taxes. Since our "overhead" is less, we
can therefore act differently.

In this case, I might choose a Hold Zone of 20% to increase
trade activity. There, the number of "bad" trades is half of
what it is at 15% yet we've not dropped a linear amount in the
total number of trades. In my taxable account I've been using
30% overall (20% Total SAFE plus 5% min. trade size) but might
consider reducing it to 26%. I'd theoretically gain 80% more
trades with just a 13% reduction in LIFO return. This would
seem to be a reasonable trade-off. Also, only one extra "bad"
trade is added.

Best regards, Tom
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OLD NO.7

05/26/03 6:06 PM

#8267 RE: The Grabber #8253

Hi Steve,

There are some technical analysis folks who do a Fourier Transform analysis on a chart. What this does is take a chart that looks like nothing but garbage (like the chart of an earthquake) and makes is look like a sine wave. Now tht you have a simple chart where you can see how many days are in a cycle you can make decisions on what moving averages to use. So if some stock or exchange has a 52 week cycle they the cross over point would be 26 weeks. BTW that is how they simulate earthquakes for designing buildings. Keep in mind that I have forgot most of what I ever knew about TA. But I got an "A" in Fourier Analysis.

Larry G
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OLD NO.7

05/26/03 6:06 PM

#8268 RE: The Grabber #8253

Hi Steve,

There are some technical analysis folks who do a Fourier Transform analysis on a chart. What this does is take a chart that looks like nothing but garbage (like the chart of an earthquake) and makes is look like a sine wave. Now tht you have a simple chart where you can see how many days are in a cycle you can make decisions on what moving averages to use. So if some stock or exchange has a 52 week cycle they the cross over point would be 26 weeks. BTW that is how they simulate earthquakes for designing buildings. Keep in mind that I have forgot most of what I ever knew about TA. But I got an "A" in Fourier Analysis.

BTW thanks for the spreadsheet.

Larry G