brainlessone, I do not think I was defending the UN. I do not like the UN. The problem is that it is what we have to work with. Talk and negotiation is always better than war. That is what I am saying. I do not know about you but when a person who does not hold fundamentalist views reads the drivel that they are going to whatever hell is in the dementia of the religious intolerant be it mlsoft, Osama or the mad king Mugutu praying to his stone god they can get angry. When they then look at their children they get even angrier. That is the hate that can be bred by the arrogance of religious intolerance of the views of others.