doma, folks are struggling, this is perhaps your clearest post of what one would suppose had been clear for some time. and hence Wave+NTRU = a solution without a TPM but interoperable on any TPM (NTRU providing much of that interoperability). Glad we cleared that up. Regards, Dig Space. PS and you did refer to the Sept 2002 patent as protection for the TAN at one time, no?