For those who don't understand the numbers in 2008, or the loaning method, or financing of operations, or MTN's, or SPE's, I would suggest you dive into the Year End Financials in 2005, 2006, 2007 so... 1. you understand your investment, or 2. you aren't a naysayer who looks uninformed when you say "they are only making deals with themselves and loaning money to themselves." (which by the way is the most idiotic and uninformed statement I have seen on this board to date).
I just like to know a sheep is a sheep and a wolf is a wolf without having to take its clothes off.