Jeff...The creditibility reference was for slurpy's sake(I know they all take notes from this board)....FWIW, I don't think I have ever accused you of not telling the truth. I have accused you of not telling all that you know. In my mind there is a big difference. BTW, my daughter is supposed to be testing for her first brown this week, and now she wants to quit. This close to black belt and it's driving me crazy! Any words of advice to get someone to stick it out?