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good call!
Hmm, I noticed that the Equity Committee is no longer on the court docket for today. I checked the previous hearings and current hearings and its gone. Anyone know perhaps why?
I see that the last hearings are Dec 18th, and then after that everything will be in the new BK location of St Louis.
My only thinking is that they delayed the EC for the new venue location. But, then again, they would have announced it.
UPDATE:
I found this. I guess Peabody may have filed an objection or noted objection on the very last day
http://patriotcaseinformation.com/pdflib/1656_12900.pdf
Anyone else have opinion on this?
MORE UPDATE:
Ok I see what they did, they moved it again. Most likely for St Louis court
http://www.patriotcaseinfo.com/pdflib/1668_12900.pdf
under section C #7
Motion of Certain Interested Shareholders for Entry of an Order Directing the
Appointment of an official Committee of Equity Security Holders Pursuant to
Bankruptcy Code § 1102(A)(2) [ECF No. 417]
Status: Adjourned to a date to be determined.
Anytime, Sam. It would be nice to get it back up to that area. My 'hope' is that they issue new warrants when they emerge from BK, or IF they do get bought out that they will buy all outstanding shares at a good price, or get new shares/warrants from the buyout.
Since the company trying to acquire isn't even IPO and has existing shares, perhaps they are willing to let the shares cross over. This is all pure speculation, and as many have pointed out, there is a good chance that share holders won't get anything. Unfortunately, that is a big chance that will happen. However, with all the law suits going on, proceedings, etc, I'm sure many people won't just roll over quietly and easily.
From what I've been able to dig up and find out is that we should hear something more on this in middle of January.
IF the company wants to do a quick acquisition, and have this go over smoothly, they are going to have to please EVERYONE. We know that won't happen, especially with the unions. So, it will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Equity Committee is being approved today, so that's also another huge step for share holders
nothing we can do is sit and wait (and speculate!)
We may not get jack crap from all of this, and I will lean towards that. IF we get anything, then I will count that as icing on the cake and be happy with it. Expect nothing, but if I do, then bonus.
yup, I agree. Some people I talked to said this is supposed to be in the mid .50s or higher. They feel that because of no good/positive news means it will keep going lower, and it took so long for them to finally say where this will be held. It took these people what, over 3 months to finally say "oh well it needs to be heard in St Louis".
We have the appointment of the Equity committee tomorrow, so it will be good to see that finally go through. That will be our biggest help for share holders.
So you have no news/good/positive, delay in saying where it will be held, etc. Lots of factors involved.
Some people also sold out of everything after Romney lost. I watched as it went from 45 to 50 million shares owned, down to only 7 to 8 million. People dumped it all after the election and helped bring it down to here.
Oh well. I'm going to hold on and see how the ride goes for a little bit. Like pretty much everyone, I'm down on this and can use it for a loss on taxes. Its a waiting game.
how I see it is, Bill Gates is still holding, possible and speculative deal with this other company that WANTS IPO badly, they have good assets that are in the positive. Nothing has really helped this so its going to stay really low until there is finally good/positive news. Once that finally happens (if it does) then we should see good movement.
There are lots that came out in tact, some came out and they got new shares from emergence.
There are probably more examples of no one getting anything. I know this, I accept this (as you have)
I'm not betting or banking on them keeping the shares, OR giving you new shares when they emerge. What I am hoping for is that this company can get its act together, formulate a good recovery plan, have a good outlook, etc. The stock price, and any good news along the way, should help the price go up. At that point, I may decide to exit out and count my blessings to make any money. However, I may not stay until the end to find out I get nothing. Granted, I may kick myself if they DO decide to keep or issue new warrants. But I'm not going to take that risk. Some will because they don't have much in this anyways. I don't have a ton in it either, but if I see a way to get out with profit, then so be it. I'm not going to get greedy along the way. Take what I can get, and don't look back and be thankful for it.
A lot of people (Sam) that are stuck in this at a very high level. To be honest, for them to stay is probably best because they are down so huge anyways. there is no point in selling off (unless this just completely blows up, but we know that won't happen). count it as a loss (as you mentioned) and "hope" the law suits for those pre-BK pay off, or some sort of compensation happens.
From the look of their tactics, I say they are screwed and will have to pay those that are pre-BK. anyone post BK I'm sure isn't going to get anything.
So that being said, any sign of hope, good news, is better than someone constantly being a negative nancy and pissing in everyones corn flakes
By the way, I also know a few people who made a killing with BK stocks. Some even got new warrants in the company when it emerged and made out like bandits. Not going to cite any names as they choose to not be named. But the fact that it CAN happen is key. Once again, i'm NOT banking that will happen because it is very unlikely. Just because someone says "I don't know anyone that has" just means they are 1 person out of millions. Need to do your own DD and Research to see for yourself. I've already looked at a dozen or more examples.
yup, me too. I tried to do some of that early on, but unless you do this full time, all day long and watch it every step to get in low and sell quick on the 10% or whatnot, you can lose.
I'm looking for some good gains here and there, yes. But, I'm interesting in majority of legit companies out there. Some friends are doing the APS, TBX, and other penny stock plays. You can make some good money real fast, or you can lose it real quick. I've seen some lose it real quick if you're not fast enough, or get too greedy.
yeah, I've been watching it since you mentioned it. Using it as a learning tool for BK stocks.
I can see how you can really flip it for quick 10%. That's probably all you can hope for with that.
Very interesting. I'll have to read up on AONEQ to see more about it.
I know this won't be a buyout or acquisition for probably at least 6 months or longer. I have a feeling that they are going to wait until they emerge from BK, OR when they got everything done in BK. Like someone else had pointed out, you would want to get something done with those unions before anyone would want to buy them anyways. You don't want buy out a company that has that huge problem and take over that debt that was slowly draining the company. Can't be profitable with all of those union workers, retirees, benefits, etc.
like you said, this has a long ways to go and 6 months puts it at 1 year and should have a plan already in place for BK. Granted this can go longer than another 6 months, but if they want to get things moving, they may look to not extend it much longer (unless no sides agree on anything, such as unions, Equity Committee, etc)
Ernie,
What's your opinion on comment by someone on pcx board that a buyout means all existing share holders gets nothing.
i was under the impression a buyout means they buy out all the shares for a certain price and that's how they "buy out" a company
Correct me if I'm wrong and maybe you can see what "fung" is trying to say with his comment. I've got him on ignore, but my phone application for some reason sent me his response. I have him blocked now on my phone, but curious to see your thoughts on that statement by "fung"
thanks
Agreed. If the outcome is even $1 it will be worth the wait for 6 months. Here is to hoping Sam is right and we can be looking at $5 or higher buy out, OR shares in the new company. Would be nice
yup, that is the other hurdle they need to get out of the way. This is probably why they are saying not to expect anything much for another 6 months. I'm sure once that is done, then we may see the possible formal buyout.
Agreed. From the guy's comment, he does agree it is speculation until that formal announcement. He doesn't think that will happen for another 6 months. Could be they are getting everything lined up to do the acquisition.
Not sure how that works when they are going through BK proceedings, or how it will treat the stock in terms of keeping it in tact, or issuing brand new shares and buyout the old. I would think they would buyout the old shares and start with new. Definitely a good and smart way to get around from being denied IPO.
Indeed. If we had him even talking about this, it would help the case a lot. It is definitely still speculation and I believe that there could be a chance in 6 months or longer.
I don't think they will buy it out during BK, but then again what do I know. They could just buy it out and save it from going through all of the BK. If they are trying to get all the funding to not only get themselves in position, but to get PCX out of the creditor situation (or re-org) and take it over.
IF this is going to happen or a good possibility, we are still ways away from it happening, but knowing it might is a good thing. Have to keep waiting and seeing they will do any attempts and keep it "hush hush" until they are able to go for it.
Would be nice for Mr Bill Gates to chime in and do something. Not sure if he would get into trouble talking about it as it might influence the stock price. Something would be nice. would be nice to at least know what he is thinking and planning on doing since he is holding so many shares.
I would say he has an inside track as to what will happen (e.g. get new shares in the new company) but that's illegal. Something is keeping him from dumping them all. Man is a genius, so who knows what he is thinking
Yup agreed. Anyone can say they are going to buy. Research on the company n mentioned showed they tried to get IPO last year and it was denied. Not betting on it but it's interesting
yeah, i just read that. I thought at first it was this:
http://armstrongenergycorp.com/
But that's oil
I'm going over some of the other info now. I see they are trying to get the $200 million to get out of debt. Perhaps thats what was hindering them from IPO.
Not sure if they are looking to merge it, or do some sort of big huge buy out or who knows what. I don't have twitter so I couldn't hit that guy up to see where he thinks this is even a possibility.
this seems to be very new, so it could be squashed this coming week. The guy on the twitter looks like he has some good stuff, but I'm going to be cautious and not get all "excited" just yet
I just saw this and posted it on pcx board.
possible buyout?
Armstrong Energy will acquire Patriot Coal $PCXCQ
— Hasan (@hasan1) December 7, 2012
possible buyout?
Armstrong Energy will acquire Patriot Coal $PCXCQ
— Hasan (@hasan1) December 7, 2012
no doubt, that is definitely horrible. It makes sense that they can't sell it because they know what is or what will happen. So that's good to have those guidelines in place
But, like you point out, no way in hell you should be rewarded for not keeping a company out of BK. You're not doing a good job protecting the share holders and the employees. Should be able to take your stock, sell it, and use it to pay those employees
like the citi bank stuff. Layoff thousands of employees, this way the big execs can claim their million dollar bonuses. horrible.
good points and examples. In this case, I do hope that IF I stick with pcx for the really long haul that they will do the same thing and issue warrants for the old shares that I currently own now into the company when it emerges.
However, if the EC that is to be heard on Tuesday is successful and that helps this a little bit, and then eventually much higher, I may just end up selling out and moving on. No point in keep on waiting IF they aren't going to issue warrants for old shares at all.
I'm hoping that they do something like that as that would help people that are trying to sue them drop the cases. If they sit there and say "look, we are going to get rid of the old, issue new, and if you have stock we will issue new stock of the company when it emerges". I know IF that is even a possibility it won't be announced for awhile.
one of the things that I've been watching is bill gates still hasn't sold any, and I also see the top execs still own their shares and are on top with the most shares being owned. I think one has over 450k shares and another is over 500k shares. Value was at over 2 million and 3 million. If they are holding, they may be holding because they want it to go into the new company, or they can't sell it anyways. I do know one of them is now the former CEO, so not sure if he has to hold it and can't sell for whatever reason.
hmm, interesting. You think something like that could be a possibility for pcx? Of course, I bought post-BK, so not sure if anything like that would even apply to me. I know with the current law suits they have all going on are all for pre-BK holders. I'm not part of any of that.
Have you seen many law suits like that before? If so, what is some of the outcomes of those? If not, then this is a first to see how it goes
it will be interesting to see how those pan out IF the company decides to either keep the existing shares in tact, OR issue new shares in the company for those who are holders. If they do that, I wonder if the law suit would be dropped, but how would the lawyers get paid?
I wonder if that also would apply to all holders, whether its pre or post BK
I've tried to dig for some examples of different types of outcomes, but haven't had much luck. I've seen a couple where they kept the shares in tact after BK, but it doesn't say whether or not it matters if you buy post or pre BK. I would assume it won't matter. However, if they issue new shares, I wonder if they can say only pre-BK holders get new stock and post-BK holders get whatever it is the time since they knew what they were getting into.
Lots of "what ifs"
any insight is appreciated
makes sense. its not like you are under water on this ticker (like I am!)
its nice to move on if you have the chance and make a profit elsewhere. It beats holding and waiting on a ticker that may not do anything for another month or much longer. meanwhile at least you can buy into another and make more money.
I'm hoping to be able to do that soon. For now, I'm going to wait and see how it goes. My goal is to hopefully wait out the end of this month and see where it is, then decide after that.
only thing I can see now is some bought in at .10 or so range and when it got up to .12 they sold out and made themselves a quick 10 to 20% and moved on. Oh well.
other than that, i can't figure out why it popped yesterday, but it looks like it corrected itself back down again.
I'm hopeful of the EC on Dec 11th to help this a little more. here's to hoping!
i should have bailed at .18 right before the election and jumped back in around .10. Oh well. I'm stuck anyways and in holding pattern
hopefully you can jump in a good spot!
still haven't been able to find any indication for the little spike yesterday. I know it wasn't much, but still was something.
I see that it has been completely destroyed today and has been brought back down. Amazing.
but, no news (good or bad) this isn't going to do anything anyways. I'm still digging around, but haven't found a reason for the uptick yesterday. Of course, today isn't over yet and it might be able to recover, but I doubt it. It did another movement this morning higher, only to be sold off huge down.
I'll keep digging around to see if I find anything though and share if I do find anything
On a side note, I saw the one you mentioned the other day that jumped almost 700%. Have you seen a stock like PCX just pop like that for no reason? Or even if it gets some good positive news to pop up that much? I didn't see too much reason for that other company that you mentioned jump up like it did. I noticed the volume was really low too and it still popped very high.
Just seeing what possibilities are with something like pcx to actually do something like that. Hasn't done anything in a long time. Of course, as you said, no positive news and it won't do anything much anyways.
Well, takes care of that. Watched the good opening this morning and trying to figure out the reason for the good push up, only to watch someone systematically sell off to make it drop way down again.
That, in itself, is very interesting. Still haven't been able to figure out why it went up a little bit yesterday. Day isn't over yet and can recover, but someone felt the need to sell off to push it back down. I'm NOT saying its being done on purpose. I'm saying that it appears when it finally starts the up trend, someone finds a way to push it back down. Odd enough that volume was over 1 million yesterday to get it up a bit, and volume is still very low and it destroyed everything it made yesterday.
yeah, I see it went up even more in "after hours" trading
I can't find any reason for the small little pop in volume and rise. Maybe something will come out tomorrow that explains it. we've seen that a couple of times where it goes up for no reason and we see why a day or 2 later
I do know the EC is coming up on the 11th, but that's not until next week.
I also agree, if HQ was going to make an announcement like that, it would have gone to $1 or higher.
will be interested to see
Damn! well sorry to hear that Morning. I hope IF you do jump back in at all, you are able to make your money back and more.
Will do. I noticed the link you shared with me that had the shorts on it went up a lot yesterday. It only shows the day before, and not today. Will be interesting to see what it shows tomorrow for today.
pcx shot up towards the end today with huge volume. can't figure out why. I don't see any news or anything else. I see it even says it went up in after hours trading as well, up another 2%.
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=squote&symbol=PCXCQ
only thing I can think of is the EQ is coming up on Dec 11th. Volume is up higher as well
thoughts?
ahhh, well in that case, you are good to go.
ah those bastards! sorry to hear that, but you expected it anyways
on the bright side, I never got one of those notices, but then again I haven't been in it for years. How long have you been in pcx if you don't mind me asking?
Hey Morning, you still holding pcxcq? Just seeing who is still holding. I've seen a few who have moved on. Looks to be quiet still, but at least they finally decided where to hear the BK. Should finally see some movement on this
Well in that case that sucks!
If that's the case, you would like to "think" that may be a good thing. He may be able to help push to have either the stock not change, or get new stock when they emerge from BK. Or at least some sort of payout at the end, but I doubt that last one. Don't think they would do a payout in the $20 range
believe there are 89 million shares and less than 7 million shares are owned. I know Bill Gates owns 2.4 million of those 7 million
not sure what happens if there aren't many "share holders" left to "sell". If there are only less than 7 million shares owners and they don't want to sell, not sure how or what happens if others want to buy. I'm assuming someone who controls those 80+ million shares left decides to sell them, but at what price will they sell.
Well, I think it's good that it will be there. Yes, I agree they wasted a lot of time and lawyer fees just to see where the BK will be held, but it will be better for the company in St. Louis than WV area. Their main HQ is there and since its a major city area, it will be easier for all lawyers and everyone else to go there, rather than WV.
I think its a smart move, but it would have been "better" if it stayed in NY. But we all know they were trying to pull a fast one by keeping it in NY and the judge saw right through that BS.
hahaha, deal!
anytime jaybird. Thanks for the PM, sorry I can't respond, I have the free account
if you want to PM your email address I have a list I can pass on. We can keep each other in the loop. I've been lucky to have another that I share some tips with and has been very helpful. I haven't been able to capitalize on it yet because I'm holding this long term. But good news is, when I do get out, I have lots of others to jump to.
I know some people think I'm stupid to say this is a long term hold, and they are right. But I'm so far in the hole, it makes no sense to jump anywhere else as it won't do me any good. I might as well stick it out here and claim the loss (unless a huge thing comes out before the end of the year)
I'll shoot email to you once I get your PM!
thanks!
right now its a very good buy. I wish I could get more, but I can't. A lot of people may be avg down if you can.
The only thing is, it can be a month, or longer before it does anything. It's tough to say. If you don't want to keep waiting, then you can move on to something else. For me and several others, we are down huge so we are going to wait this out for a long time.
be lucky you are in post-BK. some are in pre-BK and are avg in at $4 or higher.
some of the things that I've found out is that Equity Committee is still meeting Dec 11th. Even though this is being moved to St Louis Missouri for the BK, they are going to meet for the Equity Committee still. That is the committee to represent the shareholders.
There are also several lawsuits for shareholders that are pre-BK, and other law firms for the interested shareholders (such as the one I mentioned before)
What a lot of people don't realize is that Bill Gates investment firm (Cascade Investments LLC) owns 2.4 million shares that they got in 2008 and 2009 for an avg price of over $20 per share ($56 million). Unfortunately, its only work over $250k. One would think that Mr. Bill Gates and his company isn't going to go quietly on a $56 million LOSS. They won't get their $20 per share back, but they will try to get as much as they can, OR, find way to get those shares in the new company when they emerge. Of course, it can all go to hell and he has to write it off as a loss. We have no clue what will happen.
This is still in the beginning stage so we still have 6 months to a year before this is over. Good news is now they have the place where its going to be held so now it will start to move a lot more.
choice is yours. if you aren't stuck, then feel free to move. But if you're in at .22, then you are down huge. May want to wait until past December before moving on and just take it as a loss if it doesn't bounce past what you are in at. Then in the new year you can move to something else.
not much else going on with this board, but that's not going to stop me from all my digging to see what else we can look forward to
What do you mean? Besides the fact it's in BK proceedings