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Nothing wrong with telling the truth. I'm an advocate, as a matter of fact..
I don't believe they have officially stated when they will release the audited financials. I think the first PR on the matter said the audited financials would be completed by May 31 - nothing about releasing those numbers to the public. Well, sh*t happens, and the audits took longer than they hoped. As far as I can tell, they haven't lied about WHEN the financials will be released, because they have not specified an official date. I believe "as soon as possible" was the verbage.
That said, I think it is not true when you say that they have lied about the release date of their financials, because they haven't actually given a solid release date. Have they been elusive? Maybe, but they have not flat out lied about it.
As for Ed's history - there's nothing wrong with pointing the facts out. It's also fine that you want to let the world know that Carol is Ed's wife. As for the the PPS going to no bid? Who cares?? Seriously, who cares? Despite some people making a HUUUUUGE deal out of the PPS fluctuating between .0001 and .0003, nothing significant has happened yet. The current PPS movement is strictly due to speculation and conjecture (and manipulation by those who want to make a quick buck).
Honestly, I don't think the financials will necessarily be the "significant" event that makes this PPS go north. Frankly because 2006 and 2007 will show negative numbers and 1Q 2008 may show nominal profit. I think it will be time to sell this stock if, and only if, the company fails to announce official closing of loans (with proof). Until then, this company is still in the kennel. It's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too early, in my opinion, to count them out...
Tell me Frogg, is there really much of a difference between .0001 and .0003? Seriously.. Is there? Nothing of REAL significance has been PR'd.
Bare with me here for a second. Let's say a year from now HCPC is worth $0.50 a share.. For the sake of argument, let's say they do NOT R/S between now and then.. We sit here and bicker about PPS changing from .0001 to .0002 to .0003 at this point in time, but those numbers will be extremely insignificant if/when this stock takes off. And if the stock doesn't take off, it still seems like splitting hairs..
I know you are of the opinion that HCPC will not take off and is a dud. That's fine - I respect that. But to me, nothing significant has happened yet. Why does eversyone bother making a big deal out of PPS changes at these level? Whether you believe in HCPC or think it's a dud..
Hey Howard,
All of us in Seattle certainly hope the "big earthquake" doesn't hit.. Right now, I live about 4 miles from Puget Sound, but a big (HUGE) earthquake could give me some waterfront property at my current location :).
I'm with in regards to the completed deals they have posted on their web site. However, I must remain somewhat skeptical until it's actually PR'd. My analytical way of thinking oftentimes overshadows my use of faith ;)..
Hey Worm,
I'm not a very experienced investor, either. Only been serious about my investments for the last 9 - 12 months or so...
I could go off on a tangent, but let me quickly sum up why I think HCPC can do more than just spike.
1. If they are serious about their loan programs and that the works in progress are really happening - then I see this company's bottom line moving from the red to the black...IF they follow through with their business model
2. They want to uplist to the OTCQX exchange... I am simply remembering this from another's post/DD a couple of months ago, but I believe a minimum PPS of $0.25 is required for uplisting. Furthermore, I think that a company needs to hold, at LEAST, at that PPS for 90 days or so before it can uplist. Thus, I don't think a reverse split (at this point in time) would strengthen the PPS enough to hold at those levels. I think the company needs to get the PPS up much higher than it is now.. It'd be great if they could reach $0.25 with the current share structure.. However, I kind of wonder if they'll get the PPS up to the levels of $0.01ish and perform a smaller reverse split at that point.
Assuming the company is serious, I think the two points I have listed above are enough reason for me to stay invested in HCPC. On the other hand, if it all turns out to be a sham, I will not have lost too much money. Moral of the story? Only invest as much as you can afford to lose..
Hey Indian,
I understand peoples' apprehension about promises given in the PR's vs. the (lack of) action. I attribute part of that to the fact that HCPC is a small business... Not much of an excuse, but I have worked for my fair share of small businesses - they say they want to do a lot and only come through on about 5% of the things. Then again, I haven't worked for a small business that is publicly traded, so it could be an apples-to-oranges comparison :/.. Needless to say, I am with you and think the next 90 - 120 days will be a critical time for HCPC to instill investor confidence. We'll see what happens.
Hey Heels,
I've give this my best guesses. My IT specialties rest mostly in network infrastructure and database management. My exposure to web technologies is limited (from a technical perspective, anyways), but I think I can help answer your questions.
1. "To develop and support it's web-based shareholder portal"
Basically, Valex will most likely gather requirements from HCPC leadership on how HCPC's customers will interface with their accounts online. For those of you who do online banking - your bank has a login prompt and once you're logged in you can see your accounts, etc.
2. "Document management"
Going back to the example of the bank, you can view images of checks you have written (and have been cashed by the other side). I imagine HCPC's customers will have a way to view their loan-related documents online.
3. "Profile management" - If they are using "profile" in the typical IT term - then it means the user/customer will be able to manage their profile online. So if they change their address, phone number, etc., the web portal will allow the customer to make these changes online (as opposed to calling HCPC and trying to talk to someone on the phone to make the profile changes).
4. Security/permissions. To the end-user, this means that they are the only ones who will be able to see their personal and confidential information. From a technical perspective - in the back-end, it means that Valex will set appropriate security parameters on customers' folders to ensure they no one can hack in, and making sure that the customer is the only person/set of people who can see the information. Whether the portal is hosted on a Windows or UNIX/Linux box - security will be good. Also, security/permissions could mean that the customer has the ability to give others permission to view the account. For example, my girlfriend and I have a family-talk plan with our mobile phone carrier. My social security number is the main one on file, but I was able to login to the web portal and give my girlfriend equal authority to make changes to the account.
All in all, these are the kinds of things you expect to see on a web site with a customer portal. For one, it's nice to see that HCPC is pursuing this avenue. Secondly, it's nice to know that they are outsourcing the project. Obviously HCPC knows that they don't have the means to have someone do this for them in-house. Maybe if/when they become profitable and larger, they can bring this sort of thing in house.. In my experience (and my opinion, of course), HCPC is going about this the right way, FWIW..
Firstly, my posting-friend, the reason the share price is hovering between .0001 and .0004 is that nothing of big significance has happened. Yeah, there were announcements in December and February that spiked the price up. In my opinion, (in the grand scheme of the life of a business), NOTHING significant has happened that makes me lose confidence in this stock. People like to blow the PPS "flucuation" (if you really want to call it that, since I think of it as "hardly moving much at all") way out of proportion. NOTHING SIGNIFICANT HAS HAPPENED YET!! Plain and simple.
HCPC has mentioned offering a web portal to allow its customers to perform e-commerce functions via their web site. The post I originally responded to confirms that HCPC is pursuing that avenue. To me, it means that they are on track.
Will this all work out for them?? Your guess is as good as mine. In my opinion, if you read between the lines, you'll see that the PPS movement over the past few months is fairly meaningless. Sure, it's spiked, but at these levels, I can hardly think of it as significant. Why? Because nothing has changed. What will significantly change the PPS? I think the audited financials will be the beginning of the process. Thereafter, I think the company will need inform the shareholders of where they business plan stands.
If you think HCPC is a POS - that's fine by me. Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's. However, rants about Carol and her husband are lost with me. Conversely, pumping this stock is also lost on me. I play with the facts (not conjecture that is stated as fact). And right now, the facts this far give me confidence in HCPC. If it doesn't work out? I don't care that much, because I've only invested a small amount of money. Compared to all of the expenses I have recently acquired with the purchase of a new home?? My potential losses (if HCPC turns out to be a dud) are pocket change.. Though, I could really find some use in this stock spiking simply because buying a home is not cheap :).
Very interesting indeed. Funny how those posters who dislike HCPC haven't bothered replying to your post ;). Nice find...
Because people would complain if they didn't provide any PR... It's a lose-lose situation for them. If they don't PR, people get mad. If they do PR with no substantial news - people complain. I like the fact that they are communicating with the shareholders, at the very least.
You may be right, but I'm sure some people on this board would be complaining if there was no PR.. There's no way to win in this situation :).
I agree that today's PR was of very small significance, but I just look at it as the company saying, "we know you want news, we don't have it yet, but we'll give it to you ASAP."
In my opinion, 80% of the posts on this board are meant to get under people's skin. 10% are good, honest debate, and 10% are the facts. The tricky part is being able to ignore the former, and see things for what they really are. In my opinion, there is nothing out there that convinces me that HCPC is trying to dupe us. I feel like there are facts that support the potential for HCPC to take off. Right now, I still have confidence in this prospect, and will not consider changing my outlook until the financials are PR'd.
Frankly, I see people "pump" and "bash" all of the time. The fact of the matter is that nothing has really changed since February. People make a huge deal out of the PPS going from .0001 to .0003 and then back to .0002. Come'on - nothing has happened to significantly change the PPS. Why say this stock is going "to da moon" or is a "POS" based in miniscule changes in PPS (that have been the mainstream pattern for a long time)? NOTHING HAS CHANGED in the past few months. I don't expect any changes until the financials are PR'd. Until then, I kind of feel like we are all repeating ourselves and arguing the same points over and over and over and over and over..
Breharb - this isn't meant to attack you. I just happened to reply to part of your last post and it blew up into this short story :).
Always the optimist, William ;).
I actually saw this back in early May. It's been around for at least that long, but very interesting to say the least. Hard to say if it's just a domain HCPC (and its related companies) use for testing purposes... but.. we'll see.
Yeah, while I like playing cards - I usually lose my money within a couple of hours. With stocks - at least the gamble is long term. It's interesting to see how the different variables effect the PPS. Based on my limited knowledge of things, I get the feeling the last few months have been the calm before the storm. I'm not just saying this because I hope the PPS takes off - it's just a gut feeling I have been having lately :). No evidence to back up my theory, but I do this the DD that has been presented on this board in the last few months has been great. It's easy to forget the facts and get caught up in the emotion of the moment.
What I do find very interesting is that the volume has been waaaaaaay down over the past couple of weeks. Some might say that this means people have lost interest and are no longer buying shares. I tend to think it means that people are holding and not selling their shares..
That's my feeling, too. With all of the speculation (from both sides of the spectrum), I am just waiting for the facts to present themselves. We'll see the numbers and that will be that. Based on the trading volume today, I'd say that many people are holding in anticipation of the next PR. Based on the DD I have seen over the last few months, my hope is that we'll see the PPS move north somewhat. If not... oh well, it has been fun to invest, and I will not have lost my life savings :).
Because they obviously don't spend much money on their web site development. Seems to be a common trend among businesses of all sizes.. I understand the desire for updates from the company, and their statement of updating their web site, but I've found that many businesses who don't rely on their web site to make money - generally forget it's there.
Personally, I take their web site with a grain of salt at this point in time.
Purely taking things at face value - the company released a PR stating the facts - the audit isn't done. Naysayers say this is company "robbing us blind," while pumpers keep telling us that "we'll have news tomorrow" or something of that sort. Most of us live somewhere in the middle of the two extremes. Facts are facts. The audit isn't done, the company NEVER promised a PR on or before May 30th, so everything said here is conjecture and speculation. I plan to wait for them to report on the audits and then make a sound, critical decision on what I will do with my money.
Two reasons I haven't posted:
1. Just moved into a new place and our ISP flaked out for four days past the due date
2. While I enjoy reading everyone's perspective's, the posts are just the same thing over and over again. I understand that this type of posting can be the nature of a bulletin board, but it gets old after a while. Therefore, I am limiting my posts until the company PR's the Q1, 2008 financials and/or the big loan.
Here here!
It's nice to see a well-though post on this board! You bring up a great point, in my opinion. To what benefit is it for the company to add shares without a good reason? The shareholders have been watching this very very closely. If they (we) think the company is up to no good - then we'll cash in what's left of our shares and employees of HCPC will be fine-tuning their resumes for finding a new job.
Again, I do think the PR of their financials is important as well as divulging share structure information.
Personally, I have decided to ignore the ups and downs in the PPS until the company's PR of the financials for Q1, 2008. I can't stress myself too much during these times of flipping. It's the calm before the storm right now (at least, I hope - though I suppose the predicted hurricane may just amount to a rain shower). We'll see! Good luck to everyone.
Hey Milo,
Honestly, you are one of the people whose posts are consistent and well thought. Sorry if my "lack of trust" message seemed directed at you in any way. It was more of a blanket statement and perhaps the words, "trust in other posters" should actually be phrased as, "no one poster on this board has 100% convinced me of anything, thus, I can only trust my own reasoning (of course, with the help of other great DD done on this board)." It's difficult to properly express myself via a message board.. I forget that people can't hear my tone of voice or see my facial expressions.
Also, I think I am more frustrated with the "pumpers" and the "bashers." I like looking at things somewhere in the middle and feel like there is a lot of posting going on that is based more on emotion than reason. It seems like we have all figured out ways to press each other's buttons :). I have no doubts that you learned of information about the A/S growing 6 billion - it's just the reactions of others (myself included, intially) that is getting old. I wish we could just be patient and wait for offical word from the company. Easier said than done.
Thanks for all of your thoughts, Milo. Good luck to you!
You hit that spot-on.. I have only risked as much as I can afford to lose and am actually ahead right now :). Maybe not a millionaire by any means, but in the green nonetheless.
Iron,
While I like to think that everyone on this board has benign intentions and, like me, hopes the PPS will take off (as opposed to being flipped constantly). But, I just don't trust anyone more than anyone else on this board. There are some I feel provide level-headed, well thought and researched information, and others who say things simply to fulfill their own agendas. That said, I still can't be entirely sure who is telling the truth (as they know it). Thus, I can only rely on facts and PR's from the company.
I propose that we all refrain from posting all day tomorrow and commence posting after the markets close... Anyone with me?? :)
The storm of speculation before the truth is revealed :).
Well said... There is a lot of speculation here, and the timing of the newest speculation(s) is a bit peculiar to me...
With all due respect to everyone on this board, the only person I can truly trust is myself. I'm sure that 95% of you are like me, but there it's hard to know the motives of everyone who is posting.
If the latest rumors come to fruition, so be it - but to me, there is not too much sense in worrying about it. Let's at least let the company give a PR before we jump to conclusions. Just my opinion
....and this is where my confidence in HCPC begins to crumble - however, I'll not get too upset until there is a PR :). Not like I have much invested anyway. If this is true, maybe I'll check my portfolio again in a year :)
Mimurray,
So you think that HCPC's goal of uplisting in 2008 is an "aggressive goal" at best?
I seem to remember the company saying that a R/S would not be prudent at this time. Perhaps they meant the time of that PR (back in Feb/March?).. I don't think a small R/S is out of the question, but think they need to let the PPS grow on its own for a little while. Otherwise, they'll not be able to uplist...Time will tell..
Hey William,
1. The big deal fell through
Given the size of the loan, I think this is a legitimate concern. Guess we'll find out soon (hopefully).
2. There is another two billion shares in the O/S.
I suppose this could happen, too. There is sooooo much speculation about "buyback" and "dilution" on this board that it makes my head spin :)
3. Reverse split
While I completely understand your ration for thinking this to be a possibility, this is the one topic I would disagree with. Bare with me here for a second - the company has stated it's intention to uplist to the OTCQX by the end of 2008. Let's say that this is a feasible goal. In order to uplist, I believe they need to hold the PPS at or above $0.25 for 90 days. I base the 90-day figure on heresay, but am 95% sure that $0.25 PPS is required for uplisting.
A reverse split would not hold the PPS at $0.25 long enough to uplist, in my opinion. Therefore, I think they need to find other means of strengthening the PPS to achieve those levels. I think having audited financials (with 2008 showing some profit), along with the funding of the big loan could move the PPS in the right direction. A reverse split at these levels would surely be a bad idea if the company wants to become credible and uplist..
Frogg,
Thanks for sharing your opinions... I think you present some valid points, though the pros still outweigh the cons for me on this one :). If it bombs, oh well. But I have invested in several pink sheet and OTC stocks in the past 9 months. The DD I have seen for HCPC gives me confidence that they are moving along in a positive. The stock market, in general, is a big crap shoot. Pinks might be a higher risk than a company AAPL, but we're all adults. We can make informed decisions..Good luck to you..
Thanks for the clarification, Heels. That makes sense..
1. Is it possible that the PPS is extremely undervalued at this point in time? If so, maybe not Titanic.. Just a thought, based on a hunch..
2. True, there is no solid proof that the 672M loan has closed. Perhaps I am foolish for trusting the company's web site when it says the loan has closed... Far from wishful thinking, in my opinion.. Though, I do understand the need to keep in mind the known facts. What can I say, the glass is half full for me in this case :).
3. I've made money so far from HCPC. I'd say that this shareholder is actually doing well :). Your point is taken, but I think confirmation of the 672M loan closing, coupled with the PR of the audited financials will bring the PPS up. Maybe not as high as some on this board would like, but north nonetheless. Just my opinion.
William,
I appreciate your skepticism.. Who knows why they didn't/haven't lived up to some of their "promises." Some of it may be due to changes in plan. Some of it could be due to unexpected events. Some of it could be due to incompetence on the part of HCPC. It's also possible that some of it was meant to mislead the investors.
The differences between now and then, in my opinion, is the fact that the company has closed and funded loans. If this turns out to be a hoax, then I will eat my words. I just think the pattern is changing - the company may actually become profitable by the end of 2008.. If not... Well, I won't lose much money. I feel bad for those who have invested more than they can afford to lose, because this is truly a lotto play...
Newtrader,
I could very well be mistaken, but believe I read something that stated that HCPC would pay the monthly fee only after funding began on the first loan.. Honestly, I don't have the time or patience to dig up where I read this.. For now, we can agree to disagree :). Hopefully the financials will shed some light on it.
Newtrader, they didn't begin paying the $32,500 a month until closure of the first loan... approximately 3 months ago.
True William, but the following ICCC pages were modified on March 17, 2008. So there has been activity on some pages in the very recent past.
http://independentcapitalcreditcorp.com/index.html
http://independentcapitalcreditcorp.com/id1.html
http://independentcapitalcreditcorp.com/id5.html
http://independentcapitalcreditcorp.com/id9.html
http://independentcapitalcreditcorp.com/id2.html
I understand what you're saying. Based on what we know (or don't know) at this point in time, it seems like it could be rough. I guess it would depend on if there is dilution taking place to payoff using shares of common stock.
The fact of the matter, is that we don't know what is in their plan for sure. I think everyone has provided good ideas from all angles as to HCPC's true numbers. The truth will be revealed soon.. It's too hot outside for me to speculate anymore about HCPC. My time is better spent wondering why no one in the Seattle area has central AC :).
A reasonable opinion, I think :). Hopefully we'll get a glimpse of the share structure in the near future. I'm not extremely worried, no matter what. If the software is capable of streamlining the business, the ROI will be relatively quick.
They can payoff using shares of common stock in lieu of the fees.
I agree with you.. Maybe that means the weak hands will be gone, and those who are willing to hold longer will be patient. Yes, it's possible that nothing will ever happen with the PPS - but remember, NO ONE has promised a PR this week.
I've said this before - a PR this week would be prudent to instill investor confidence (even if the PR is, "our audit is done, we'll release numbers soon").
I like your methods :). A critical approach is always best, in my opinion. Hopefully it'll work in our favor for HCPC. If not, at least we did our best research..