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Diamond, while I agree with you "follow the money", thus loaded with WAMUQ as I am, you keep referencing Health South.
There is one big difference, Health South did NOT actually file chapter 11 bankruptcy protection as it reveals when Health South is googled.
The problem with bankuptcy is they can re-write the whole case subject to "Big Dog" approvals, thus (I hope) giving rise to the commons which are generally cancelled 95% of the time.
GREAT NEWS, How are they going to get around this without paying LARGE GREEN???
US Is Still Facing Hurdles In Regulating Financial Giants
Topics:Barack Obama | Treasury Department | Recession | Economy (U.S.) | Banking
Sectors:Financial Services | Banks
Companies:Citigroup Inc | American International Group IncBy: Albert Bozzo, Senior Features Editor | 03 Mar 2009 | 07:19 PM ET Text Size For all the federal government’s intervention into the world of business and markets, there’s one thing it still can’t do to stop the bleeding in the financial system—even though a lot of experts would like it to.
Under current law, no regulator has the authority to essentially take over a troubled bank holding company—conglomerates with a wide range of financial operations—the way the government routinely does with smaller, commercial banks.
Both FDIC Chairman Sheila Bair and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke have made that crystal clear in recent days that even as the government injects more taxpayer capital into giant financial institutions such as Citigroup [C 1.22 0.02 (+1.67%) ] it can't actually shut them down even if officials saw fit and wanted to.
"You simply need a way of calling 'time out,' ” says former Treasury official Robert Glauber, who served during the savings and loan crisis. “They lack that and they know it. I believe you do need this.”
The regulatory framework shared by several different regulators is complicated. But experts and some in Congress even say the loophole of sorts may help explain the incremental approach of both the Bush and Obama administrations in dealing with the financial crisis, regardless of their ideological positions on nationalization.
"It's an incredible gap in our authority," Sen. Bob Corker. (R-Tenn.) told CNBC.com Thursday. "There's no federal authority to go through an unwinding in a way that makes any sense. You have to wonder if that influences your policy somewhat."
Corker, a member of the Senate Finance Committee, was among those who was somehwat stunned when Bernanke said that at a hearing a week ago. The Fed Chairman said as much again to another Congressional panel today.
Regulatory reform is on the agenda for the Obama administration and the new Congress, but it’s still stuck in the back seat of the crisis. There’s been talk of a super-regulator, probably in the form of the Fed, but it's unclear if the bank holding company issue is on the agenda.
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Still, with such high profile players as Bernanke and Bair talking about the shortcomings of authority, many in Washington are becoming more aware of the obstacle.
Under current law, the FDIC has so-called “bridge bank authority” to take over a troubled institution with government insured depositions. The FDIC essentially keeps the bank open for a short period of time before a pre-arranged buyer—meaning another bank—assumes control and operation.
The FDIC, however, does not control bank holding companies, the parent companies of the commercial banks. That is the responsibility of the Fed, but the central bank is only legally allowed to make the company take so-called prompt corrective, action, to deal with such things a capital requirements.
There is no temporary status for that company if it is in trouble. Like any other corporation, its fate is settled through the bankruptcy court system,
“When you have that high degree of integration, the idea of taking over the bank and letting the bank holding company collapse doesn't really work that well,” says independent bank analyst Bert Ely. “When a holding company is stripped of key asset, the company often files for Chapter 7 or Chapter 11."
That means liquidation or protection from creditors towards a hoped for restructuring.
CONTINUED : Bernanke: What's Missing In Dealing With Problem
Empty Pockets,
While I would agree for anybody to look for a great deal, but if people here are like myself, why on earth would anybody jeopardize a once in a lifetime opportunity by chancing a fraction of a penny for purchase. What if news comes out the stock is halted pending news and people are shutout?
Not being condescending but thoughtful!
JPM - JPMORGAN CHASE & CO. Trade
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News|Significant News|Conference CallsJPMorgan Chase & Co. - Special/M&A Call
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JPMorgan Chase & Co. (JPM) - Special/M&A Calls
Positive thinking but very realistic!
Viva,
Maybe certain people have to leave, like Bonderman and others to consumate some kind of deal...
My first thought would be negative, because why would someone leave if it had a future? Any time somebody quietly leaves makes me wonder.
WAMU Resignation
-K
UNITED STATES
SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
Washington, D.C. 20549
Form 8-K
Current Report
Pursuant to Section 13 or 15(d) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934
Date of Report (Date of earliest event reported): February 6, 2009
WASHINGTON MUTUAL, INC.
(Exact name of registrant as specified in its charter)
Commission File Number: 1-14667
WASHINGTON
91-1653725
(State or other jurisdiction of
(IRS Employer
incorporation)
Identification No.)
1301 SECOND AVENUE
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON 98101
(Address of principal executive offices, including zip code)
(206) 461-2000
(Registrant’s telephone number, including area code)
(Former name or former address, if changed since last report)
Check the appropriate box below if the Form 8-K filing is intended to simultaneously satisfy the filing obligation of the registrant under any of the following provisions:
o Written communications pursuant to Rule 425 under the Securities Act (17 CFR 230.425)
o Soliciting material pursuant to Rule 14a-12 under the Exchange Act (17 CFR 240.14a-12)
o Pre-commencement communications pursuant to Rule 14d-2(b) under the Exchange Act (17 CFR 240.14d-2(b))
o Pre-commencement communications pursuant to Rule 13e-4(c) under the Exchange Act (17 CFR 240.13e-4(c))
Item 5.02. Departure of Directors or Certain Officers; Election of Directors; Appointment of Certain Officers; Compensatory Arrangements of Certain Officers.
(b) On February 6, 2009, Stephen I. Chazen resigned as a member of the Board of Directors of Washington Mutual, Inc. (the “Company”), effective March 1, 2009. Mr. Chazen’s resignation is not the result of a disagreement with the Company on any matter relating to the Company’s operations, policies or practices.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Signature(s)
Pursuant to the requirements of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, the registrant has duly caused this report to be signed on its behalf by the undersigned hereunto duly authorized.
WASHINGTON MUTUAL, INC.
Date: February 12, 2009
By:
/s/ John Maciel
John Maciel
Chief Financial Officer
WAMUQ Ownership!
Form SC 13G/A WASHINGTON MUTUAL, INC Filed by: CAPITAL INTERNATIONAL INC /CA/
SEC filings - 10K Wizard
02/12/2009 06:16 AM
WMI & Visa!!!
Visa stock is soaring in after hours. WMI owns millions of shares!!!
JPM is claiming these assets because it knows it does not have any other choice, except to make an acceptable offer for the rest of WMI.
Because financial stocks and most stocks have been down so much lately, they have been buying/delaying time so they can use a stock transation to complete the deal. JPM may have to have a stock price of somewhere north of $35.00 a share to make the deal work, if one would assume around $15.00 dollars a share for WMI as an acceptable offer.
This article proves "Bopfan" is right AGAIN, most people do not understand the chapter 11 "avoidance powers" and "fraudulent conveyance" powers for this individual to be reporting this as a mere lottery ticket. He will soon be surprised and made a fool of.
This is by far the most exciting play I have ever seen, considering the potential. This is by no means the same thing as a lottery ticket as a lot of people want to say.
All one has to do is look at the facts that we know and all the facts do is spell MONEY and more MONEY.
If one leaves their emotions out of this, consider the facts and only the facts and you will come to the same conclusion as I.
It will be impossible to cancel the common share holders, as there will be way to much money in WMI. When WMI lawyers start squeezing the players gonads a little more there will be a deal which spells BIG MONEY!
Think! Common Sense=Money.
Even if WMI had no money and ten billion dollars in liabilities, the common stock will get paid.
Even in today's world, it is illegal for the government to take 2400 banks and banking locations, not to mention other assets and convey zero dollars for them.
By the most conservative estimates the property would have a twenty billion dollar price tag, when factoring in the properties real net worth and replacement value.
Chill out folks and buy while it is pennies because at any given moment this could and will explode.
Think! Common Sense=Money.
Even if WMI had no money and ten billion dollars in liabilities, the common stock will get paid.
Even in today's world, it is illegal for the government to take 2400 banks and banking locations, not to mention other assets and convey zero dollars for them.
By the most conservative estimates the property would have a twenty billion dollar price tag, when factoring in the properties real net worth and replacement value.
Chill out folks and buy while it is pennies because at any given moment this could and will explode.
Read carefully and you will read about refund.
Taxes/Great/News/read Carefully!
Washington Mutual Owes $12.5 Billion in Back Taxes, U.S. Claims
Email | Print | A A A
By Steven Church
Jan. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Washington Mutual Inc., the former parent of the biggest U.S. bank to fail, owes $12.5 billion in back taxes, the Internal Revenue Service said in court papers filed in the company’s bankruptcy case.
The company filed papers Jan. 22 asking U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Mary F. Walrath to void at least part of the alleged debt, arguing that because Washington Mutual lost so much money, it expects to get a federal tax refund. The company also said the IRS filed a claim in bankruptcy court before making a formal determination about how much Washington Mutual actually owes.
“In all possible situations, the IRS will owe WMI money,” the company said in court papers filed in Wilmington, Delaware.
The company, based in Seattle, filed for bankruptcy on Sept. 26, the day after its banking units were seized by regulators and sold to JPMorgan Chase & Co. for $1.9 billion. WaMu has said it plans to try to get a refund for previous years’ tax bills based on $20 billion in losses.
The IRS filed two priority claims against WaMu: one on Oct. 27 for $2.3 billion and another on Jan. 13 for $10.2 billion. The company also filed two claims that have a lower-priority as well, for a total of $87 million. The company hasn’t filed an objection to the $10.2 billion claim.
Claims in bankruptcy court are often disputed and ultimately reduced by a judge after a court hearing. Tax claims take precedence over many other kinds of debts owed by a bankrupt company.
WaMu has been working with the IRS to resolve the company’s tax liability, according to court papers. An audit, which covers the years 2004 through 2007, isn’t complete.
WaMu claims it has more than $4 billion on deposit with J.P. Morgan with which to pay bondholders and other creditors owed billions.
The case is In Re Washington Mutual Inc., 08-12229, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, District of Delaware (Wilmington).
To contact the reporter on this story: Steven Church in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware, at schurch3@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: January 24, 2009 00:01 EST
TPG Purchase/Bloomberg Article
TPG, CVC in Talks to Buy 45% Stake in Caceis From Natixis for $2.1 Billion TPG Inc. and CVC Capital Partners Ltd. are in talks to buy 45 percent of French custody firm Caceis from Natixis SA in a deal that may value the unit at about 1.6 billion euros ($2.1 billion), four people familiar with the matter said.
Soon to be a even exchange, one JPM common share for one WMI common share as JPM will drop into the teens!
The Short Case for JPMorgan
by: Value Investor Insight January 17, 2009 | about stocks: JPM
Value Investor Insight
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Become a Contributor Submit an Article Font Size: PrintEmail TweetThis In the December edition of Value Investor Insight, Soma Asset Management's Igor Lotsvin described how his portfolio is positioned for 2009. Key excerpts - explaining his bear case for JPMorgan Chase (JPM) - follow:
Describe the bearish case for one of your highest-conviction shorts, JPMorgan Chase [JPM].
IL: People want to believe that certain companies because they’re the high-quality players will ride out the credit crisis without that much pain. JPMorgan deserves credit for being much better positioned than others, but that doesn’t mean its pain from loan losses is going to be any less real.
As much respect as we have for [JPMorgan CEO] Jamie Dimon, we were frankly shocked at the purchase of Bear Stearns in March and expect it to be the biggest mistake of his career. We’ve worked on acquisition due diligence and can tell you there’s absolutely no way the decision over two days to buy Bear Stearns was much more than a gut trading call on Dimon’s part that Bear’s assets were fundamentally solid and that the government’s willingness to cover $29 billion in asset writeoffs had him covered. We just think that’s going to turn out to be fundamentally and disastrously wrong.
Why?
IL: As of the end of the third quarter, JPMorgan had $2.2 trillion in liabilities on its balance sheet, against which it has a market cap of around $116 billion. As we go through the various components of the loan portfolio and make assumptions about the level of writeoffs, big chunks of that equity value get eaten up quickly.
For example, the company has a credit card loan portfolio of $150 billion, on which we think loss writeoffs could go as high as 13-14%. They point out that losses on credit cards peaked at 8% in 2002, but we think this recession will be much worse. Consumers are more leveraged than they’ve ever been, unemployment rates will almost certainly go higher than they’ve been in decades, and there are no other sources of liquidity, like savings, for people to pay off their credit cards. There’s another $100 billion in home equity lines of credit, on which we think losses could reach 15-17%. They have $15 billion in subprime mortgages, on which losses could be 50%. They have $50 billion in prime mortgages, with losses on that likely to be 10-15%.
In all, we think there’s a reasonable chance that JPMorgan is facing $50 billion in losses on existing loans over the next year, which would cut its book value to the high-teens per share, from the current level of $35.
We assume you’d expect the share price, currently $31, to follow suit.
IL: The shares already trade below book value, which is highly unlikely to change if the company experiences the loan losses we expect. If we’re right, we’d expect to see the share price fall at least to $15.
What are the biggest risks to your thesis?
IL: The key here – and this is true of a lot of our shorts – is how soon the housing market starts to rebound. If that happens much sooner than we expect, there’s a good chance we’ll be wrong about how bad the loan losses get.
click to enlarge above image
I would not be surprised to see a 8 filing this evening (after 9:00pm) explaining a 30 billion dollar settlement from the FDIC to keep from exposing all of their dirty laundry and to keep from losing more faith/confidence in the markets.
Diamond, I agree with you. All one has to do is follow the money. I do not see why people want to make something so easy, difficult.
WMI common will be the trade of the century. Remember one thing, WMI went into chapter 11 to avoid the thugs, not because they had to.
With JPM moving their earnings to Thursday the 15Th, makes me wonder if they announce the rest of their purchase of WMI on Friday the 15Th. This could be buried over the long holiday weekend (presidents Day-Monday) and then the inauguration on Tuesday,making worldwide headlines and history,thus burying the WMI catastrophe.
I could not agree more, but more than likely it will happen when least expected. They will want very little media exposure, so I believe it will be tied to another huge media event, possibly the Superbowl weekend as well as the Presidential Inaguration.
I think merger Monday Morning January 19, could be the day an announcement is made so they can bury it in the Presidential Inauguration Gala at $9.75 per common share and the assumption of preferred to the extent possible.
That is great news...thanks
WMI monthly 8K is out. Looks like one billion more liabilities than assets. This seems too be much more than last month in liabilities...your thoughts
http://xml.10kwizard.com/filing_raw.php?repo=tenk&ipage=6060800
Mr. Williams was already an executive before the seizure which means he already had stock/stock options and other sources of equity. These prices you see for the options would not have been made after the seizure. It does not show him being handed anything after the seizure other than his hourly rate and or salary. Sorry, did not want to be negative but factual. I wish he would have been awarded something post seizure tied to common stock, as it would give me more hope.
Diamond, thank you as would give hope and another reason to believe, this could be the best bet on Wall Street.
WaS, thanks for the intelligent reply as I agree with most everything about WMI becoming worth anywhere from $5.00 to $14.00 a common share when you factor in the unknown worth, NOLS, and the illegal conveyance that is worth billions.
But as in any case where there is a lot of money involved, if they can get rid of the common stock, the new stock would be worth much more to those who would get it and the common stock would win the battle but lose the war.
I understand Health South traded down to around five to ten cents a common share, but they never filed chapter 11, but just had the same law firm as we do now. The law firm is great but if they did not actually file chapter 11, then it is not the same, as I am worried they will cancel our common shares.
Does anybody know of any company (s) that filed chapter 11 and re-emerged with their common stock worth something as opposed to cancelled and zero value? I would be talking firms that are not family owned or majority of family controlled.
I do not know of any and I am wondering if my large purchase of WAMUQ has a chance? I know a buyout is the best chance but the longer this goes on, I believe this is much less likely.
Thanks a lot as this put the "NOLS" under a better light, but I wonder if anybody knows for sure...anybody?
If you are right, that iss very troubling for the common stock.
I hope you are right, but I do not know what the truth on the "NOL" is, as this is extremely important when buying the common.
"NOL" is still good even with cancelling WAMUQ stock? Does anybody know for sure as this find is not good for common if true?
Stock Ticker: WAMUQ.PK
This is the common stock of Washington Mutual. This probably has the worst probability of any recovery unless there is a buyout or a significant change in assets. For some reason there is an impression that common stock must be maintained to carry forward the company’s considerable net operating losses. However, based on the information that has been gathered this is not true. These stocks currently have no representation at the bankruptcy court.
Information regarding NOL’s
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3857/is_199801/ai_n8786997
Hopefully, this article has been educational and will no longer allow persons to misrepresent the value of currently traded Washington Mutual stocks. This information was gleamed from public sources and was not reviewed by an attorney, so please do your own due diligence and read the information that has been provided.
For further questions regarding this, please visit WamuCoup.com or WamuRape.org
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zardiw Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 7:56:34 PM
Rank: Member
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Location: Palm SPrings, Kalifornia
Ok, explain how removing ALL the 'owners', i.e. current shareholders, does not constitute an 'ownership change', which negates NOL's.......z
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Mike Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 8:28:04 PM
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Joined: 9/28/2008
Posts: 129
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Z
if you read the article at the bottom it says that the creditors can become the new owners under the bankruptcy exception. As long as the creditors become the new owners, then there is no need for common stock. This isn't the only article I have seen on the subject but it is definately the most straightforward.
Bankruptcy Exception
There is an exception to these rules for bankrupt corporations under Section 382(1)(5). This exception would apply if a stock-for-debt exchange was approved by a court when: (1) Deadbeatco was under the jurisdiction of a bankruptcy court in a Title 11 or similar case (i.e., receivership, foreclosure or similar proceeding in federal or state court) immediately before an ownership change; and
(2) the shareholders and creditors of Deadbeatco own fifty percent of the value and voting power of Deadbeatco's stock immediately after an ownership change (the "continuity of ownership" test).
Only stock received by "qualified creditors" is counted to determine whether the fiftypercent continuity of ownership test is met. To be a qualified creditor, the indebtedness exchanged for the stock:
(1) must have been held by the creditor at least eighteen months prior to the date of filing of the Title 11 or similar case (most applicable to long-term debt); or
(2) must have arisen in the ordinary course of the trade or business of Deadbeatco and must at all times have been held by Deadbeatco (most applicable to trade creditors).
Only stock that is received by creditors in partial or full satisfaction of the prior indebtedness is counted to determine whether the continuity of ownership test is met. Stock received by shareholders or qualified creditors in return for new capital contributions is not included.
Special Rules Applicable to Bankruptcy Even if a stock-for-debt swap qualifies under Section 382(1)(5), there are several provisions that reduce the amount of pre-change NOL carryforwards that are available to Deadbeatco.
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This WMI mess could easily be settled for $10.00 to $14.00 a share when you factor in the illegal conveyance, cash, NOL and a possible bid from a competitor who would want to really damage JPM throught the potential lawsuit they would inherit with the purchase.
WMI does not have four sets of the best money can buy when it comes to lawyers for nothing.
WFC/WMI Combo?
I believe it is possible WFC is laying back like a smart tiger stocking it's prey. WFC did this to C and ended up aquiring WB for a still low price of six-seven dollars a share.
Can one only imagine the power of the WAMU name and WFC if they called it something like "WELLS FARGO-WAMU"?
This would blow JPM out of the water and be an immediate positive explosion for WFC.
Not to mention, a much wanted and exciting bidding war in the chapter 11 court.
I agree something big (positive) will have to happen. WMI, I do not understand why so many people are worried about the A/L's. When WMI filed chapter 11, this was the Saturday following the seizure which was on Thursday. WMI stock traded after hours on that fateful Thursday, down to around 16 cents or so. WMI filled out the chapter 11 paperwork on that following Saturday. If they had a lot of WAMUQ stock they would have figured at the price it was post seizure. WMI said they had 32 billion in assets and 8 billion in liabilities, so why on earth would they lie, knowing the truth will be out in three or four months. Wall Street is scared to death of bankruptcy, and quite frankly the majority of Wall Street have lost interest and I consider this the best opportunity I have ever seen on the street. Keep in mind WMI is far from bankrupt and the only reason they entered bankruptcy was to shelter themselves from the illegal seizure and a host of other illegalities. The reason everybody is so quiet is because the people in the know, know this will fly, but they have to go though the process of six to nine months. All one has to do is hold and increase positions when the bashers beat it down and then at some point Wall Street will find out and they will "Make My Day".
WMI, I do not understand why so many people are worried about the A/L's. When WMI filed chapter 11, this was the Saturday following the seizure which was on Thursday. WMI stock traded after hours on that fateful Thursday, down to around 16 cents or so. WMI filled out the chapter 11 paperwork on that following Saturday. If they had a lot of WAMUQ stock they would have figured at the price it was post seizure. WMI said they had 32 billion in assets and 8 billion in liabilities, so why on earth would they lie, knowing the truth will be out in three or four months. Wall Street is scared to death of bankruptcy, and quite frankly the majority of Wall Street have lost interest and I consider this the best opportunity I have ever seen on the street. Keep in mind WMI is far from bankrupt and the only reason they entered bankruptcy was to shelter themselves from the illegal seizure and a host of other illegalities. The reason everybody is so quiet is because the people in the know, know this will fly, but they have to go though the process of six to nine months. All one has to do is hold and increase positions when the bashers beat it down and then at some point Wall Street will find out and they will "Make My Day".