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amechi,
I really do appreciate your honesty and I hope the best for you and yours. As far as not missing a run, all I can say is that two of my much uninformed opinions is that IMO, one indicator is there might be a bottom around here and we seem to be oversold. As usual, very inexperienced observations but FWIW and I do believe she will be fine.
Angels come in many different disguises,
GLTY,
Nez
amechi,
Just curious and take no offence as none is intended; Is your interest here still for the reasons we spoke of in the past, if you don't mind my asking? I won't say I don't care one way or the other as I do and feel you are doing what you should in lite of your particular situation. I guess I am curious if you are still "watching for others" or did you also take an interest?
No offense will be taken if it is none of my business,
Thanks for the time,
Nez
Misterfixit,
I agree but how do we know something of this or other "natures" are not, in fact happening at this time?
IMO it is difficult to imagine Mr. Wiley sitting around doing nothing after demonstrating uncommon commitment to obtaining a goal.
JMO and I do agree but I also feel there is much more going on and at this point I would not be surprised to learn latter that during this time circumstances were being aligned which when released, will place ATWT front and center. Conjecture,(?) of course, but I think Mr. Wiley is too bull headed to give it up without putting it all on the line, which we definitely haven't seen yet and I feel he knows it is going to take one perfectly placed shot to leave no doubt.
The fact that so few companies make it on the Pinks alone would propel ATWT story to front page status which IMO could not be ignored or slanted. Especially with all of the "human interest angles" it would contain. Child safety, greedy mega corporations and greedy local governments as well as the "American Dream" attained by the first minority owned and publicly traded company in history.
Precisely at a time in our history when tensions of all social types are high and can be show to be progressing from where we were in the beginning of the 1800's or for that fact at the end of the 20th century, rather than just focusing on the negative.
JMO,
Nez
Anyone know anything about SNMD? I got an alert about heavy insider buying by three 10% holders.
Just wondering as it is a bit out of my price range but I am trying to determine the degree of influence insider buying has and how much one can use the trades to figure out what the O.S. is for a PK that is not sub penny.
TIA,
Nez
Is this a new twist in the" mind game?" I do remember seeing advice here in the past touting other stocks and they drew responses that called these types of posts "spamming."
We have seen bashing, fear mongering, chart painting and probably other numerous chart or technical falsification techniques and now it appears that the board is drawing many more "since your stock isn't doing what it should be doing, check this one out! Just sell some of your shares and put them over here in this stock and you will make so much more money than with ATWT. It may take a few months though." IMO, the thing that makes me most suspicious, is that a person or group, with the right know or experience, would need little help from us, to add to an ongoing, prefabricated effort to possibly encourage or build a "panic sell" and allow for a few more shorts to cover.
IMO, to add insult to injury, posts like this seem to be done in a manner that suggests strangers are compassionately taking pity on poor old ATWT holders. Why the sudden altruistic attitude in a world that for the most part, IMO, is witnessing a decrease in concern for ones fellow man? Just wondering and puzzling over my own opinion. Does anyone else feel suspicious about this or do I just sound overly cynical?
JMO,
Nez
Scooter1,
Back on 9/25/2006 1:13:53 PM we started with the "zipped" idea. This followed the .01 spike in Aug. Click on my name, Nez, and type "zipped" in the "Search this members posts" box.
9/25/2006 was the first time we gave this a shot. Putting GTC orders based on the theory that if the shares were tied up in large GTC orders, the MMs couldn't "short or naked short" the shares.
Then if you check the "Monthly Share Volume Report" on
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/tradeact_mv.asp?SearchBy=issue&Issue=ATWT&SortBy=volume&Month=1...
for Aug. which is the month of the spike and then check for September, the following month when we started the "zipped" idea,
the total share volume was
Of this 610,787,603.
Nite did: 258,641,455
UBSS did: 167,980,801
Combined: 426,622,256 This is almost 1/5 of the total and the result was a continuous drop in pps until the end of Sept when they threw us a bone or possibly a head fake and allowed the pps to drift to .007 on 9/26 and 9/27.
Total Share Volume for Oct. was
249,754,592
At this point, ETRD joined the fray and between NITE, UBSS and ETRD did
241,828,911 combined volume.
What it all means I am not sure but my opinion and suspicion is that the posts about how MMs can orchestrate a situation that "appears" to be dilution by the company when in fact it is them all along. IMO, this is nothing more than psychological warfare and when you add to this the fact that the MMs are reading the boards and have a fairly accurate idea about what the "Longs" are thinking they can plan and play our emotions that much more effectively.
Judging by the reaction that the "zipped" campaign evoked, I would say it caused a situation where the MMs pulled out the big guns.
Now we see in Feb an increase in volume, general interest and pps and suddenly, this VNDM shows up pounding the bid and holding the pps down in what appears to be a concerted effort with other MMs. Is this another "Big Gun effort?" Don't know but as a syndical person at this point and after reading the little I have about "them," IMO, yes, when things started looking up, MMs brought out another "Big Player."
IMO, if my math is right and the reports of "huge short interest" are correct, then what else can one conclude other than the MM's are in the process of breaking our resolve and at the same time setting up Mr. Wiley and Company to take the rap which will ensure the MMs continued ability to fluctuate the pps and dupe any new investors that come in by taking up the shares tired or disillusioned hands drop.
Remember, there has to be a ratio of supply and demand for the MMs to make the market and IMO, the last thing the MMs want is to kill the "Golden Goose" which is a rare company that can attract new investors into a solid, high potential stock but where the MMs control the resolve and emotions of any unprepared investor by playing "mind fork."
What is the solution? IMO, I have to agree with the "read" from the Dragon site that takes the position that the really solid longs are the ones who cause the MMs the most pain. But they have to wait until circumstances develop such as the one contained in the last PR where Mr. Wiley stated, "I am very anxious for the company to move itself beyond the Pink Sheets, but my primary concern right now is for the company to become totally transparent whether we're on the Pinks or BB. This process has taken longer than expected but we are determined to get it done. The best thing for the company is that we will find ourselves reporting on the Pinks and can easily transition to the next level provided the overall financial strength warrants it," said President/CEO Alex Wiley.
IMO, there are many things we have heard about and are waiting for which could precipitate a situation in which "the overall financial strength warrants it," (a transition to another board, cupid change, name change who knows,) but the fact that Mr. Wiley doesn't want to spend the money in the bank, makes me anyway, feel like he is not going to commit the reserves until it is thoroughly unavoidable which indicates IMO, that things are not as dire as those controlling the "smoke and mirrors" want us to believe. Having that money in the bank also provides options that wouldn't be available if it were committed too early. I seem to remember that there is an investor who is willing to commit a large amount if the pps comes near less than .001. Together with that and the money in the bank if I was an MM, it would cause me concern.
As for your original question Scooter, history here has shown that when we tied up large amounts of shares with GTC orders, it caused a major reaction from the MMs.
IMO, it didn't work due to the fact that the MMs scared the heck out of enough people that they let go of their shares and then those shares were used to replenish the MMs "ammo dumps." Could it have worked? IMO, YES but the longs would have to not continually watch the ticker for the entire day to avoid what IMO are false appearances of doom.
One last theory, IMO, the "blackout" is due to the fact that in addition to the MMs knowing our (investors) feelings, PR's put out by the company, gave the MMs an idea of what the company was doing and what their plan of attack was. Add to this, insiders who got fired and leaked questionable information to those who posted it here and now, not only do the MMs know the longs feelings but also what the company's plans were. So the company just went silent. This is all conjecture on my part and I hope to at least stimulate others to come up with alternatives or if this is at all accurate, then hopefully inspire the longs to "bear down" and wait and not pay attention to machinations and daily fluctuations of the pps.
All JMO,
Nez
jk21,
Good idea and nothing I have posted has been done saying that shorting is "definitely happening." One way I have not looked at things is from the perspective of "is dilution by MMs occurring and effecting the pps?"
If the following is accurate, then it is possible for MMs to cause dilution as they might already have things set up.
Just some thoughts and definitely JMO, I have a lot to learn,
Nez
FROM LINK:
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=11994355
Found withinin I-Hub box at:
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=5966
Again it's JMO,
But the easy and maybe dangerous thing to do here might be to underestimate Mr. Wiley's intelligence while at the same time underestimating the experience of the MM's have with manipulation or smoke and mirrors, what ever, the fact that this is their business and we are the "crop" and the free "financial information" available on them from the OTCBB site alone, indicates to me anyway, there is a lot of activity going on here which the average investor (myself) doesn't completely or maybe even partially, grasp.
Unfortunately, when one "buys" a report which is pretty specific and has to be filed by the MM's, it can't be shared on public boards from what I understand.
But before one goes and sells out for a loss greater than the sales commission and the loss of pps, if might be prudent to purchase a report for $15.00 and get some real facts.
I am not a lawyer or even an experienced trade but even if a company is "incorporated" in a state that doesn't require total transparency, doesn't it make sense that the MM's might be bound by different laws in order to maintain their ability to operate in this business? Could it be this is why when individual traders sign up for different types of services they have to specify if they are professionals or not?
Also, why are there 9 different MP types of MMs in the US?
I noticed that Canadian MMs aren't bound by the same rules. Could this have something to do with the differences in the laws and regulations?
I don't know for sure but to underestimate the MMs because of my own ignorance of their world, IMO, would be really foolish. At the same time just because I know a little more about the CEO's world, just from watching the news or following one of them on trial and then to demonize them without learning at least as much about the MM's world, would be lazy on my part to say the least. It is always easier for me to make the bad guy out of the known rather than make the bad guy out of the more unknown or obscure quantity (MMs). Just some of my thoughts because IMO, there is a pattern here and at least one can buy a report on the MMs before casting stones.
As so many have said, "There is not a whole lot of evidence with ATWT, other than the inability to tell the future, things are a miss." How many things (rule changes etc,) has the NASD delayed or so far entirely missed, in the past year due to projections and other unknowns, which couldn't be quantified by anyone?
I can't justify holding them, NASD, to a lower standard than a start up company which is competing in the market while also fending off the unknown called MMs.
ALL JUST MY OPINION,
Nez
JMO,
Anyone notice this MM, VNDM, "Vandham Securities Corp" appeared in Sept. 2006 according to OTC Bulletin Board Monthly Share count Report?
I wonder if there is anything similar to the "cooler" we have seen depicted in movies portraying casino inside life?
I ask this because if you look at the pps chart for ATWT, after this "VNDM" got involved, the pps never again came close to the .007 it was at their arrival and has never seen this level again since. The highest since after their arrival was .006 to .004 on the 17th of September 2006 and has not been there since except for one day at .0055.
I don't know but I find stuff like this interesting. Maybe there are coincidences after all, NOT, I still don't believe in them.
JMO and TTYL,
Nez
JMO,
Run it up in the morning and bring it down by close.
JMO,
Nez
Also My Opinion, Level II looks like an NHL power play!! Pass it here and pass it there, find the weak point and exploit it!
Remember, JMO.
Cat,
Thanks for providing the links and making the effort. IMO, Mr. Wiley and Co. are painfully aware of the O.S. situation and IMO they have the confidence in the product, the company's capabilities, business plan and ongoing developments to increase public awareness and once that happens, the O.S. will be soaked up as the MMs start to loosen their grip and new blood comes in.
I also agree with some, that in the last year a couple groups that usually flip, day trade or generally hold for the short term, bought major positions and got stuck like many others. They too have to be figured into the equation as they are not the kind of traders to hold for as long as they have and I really believe that after some period they have as an unofficial benchmark, will sell, even if at a loss. This could account for much of the odd selling we are seeing. People in these groups may even be posting here at the same time. Also IMO, these are unofficial groups that will never be able to be identified or quantified. I forget what their names were but I think at least one of them have boards on I-Hub. I do remember many posts discussing them though. Once they are done with their "controlled dumping," this will reduce the amount of shares available for MMs to snap up and control. May be just my imagination but I think we should consider all possibilities.
JMO,
Nez
Folks,
(Please cut me some slack as this is a lot of information to keep track of and if I get something wrong of a link doesn't open, let me know and I will try and correct it. Remember, I'm just trying to help as well as learn myself)
In order for it to be easier to make sense of the monthly trade totals by each MM, it is easier to go to the link,
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/tradeact_mv.asp?SearchBy=issue&SortBy=volum%20e&Issue=XXXX&Mont...
call up the lists for each moth for ATWT (there are 11 months you can view. Then you can see the differences between the volumes dumped by different MMs each month. If this isn't Dilution I am very mistaken and confused. Happens often! LOL
It is becoming apparent, if I am looking at this right, the MM's can flood a market with shares any time they have enough.
In past posts I have put up pieces of the apparent MM story and now that I see this board;
http://www.hotstockmarket.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14938
Read the posts for how to view things, there is definitely a pattern here and it is being wrongly laid at the feet of management. If all of the previous information I have posted is true (if not then there some who are posting false and libelous information which paints a negative picture of the MM and to make it worse, they are using the OTC Bulletin Board official site.
This I doubt very much as I just can't see someone with a high profile in the investing community, providing help to new traders and who have compiled years and sometimes decades of experience trading and building good reputations, risking it all and wasting huge amounts of time doing so for no apparent reason. What follows if FWIW and if it is redundant, my apologies. I know many don't have the time to do all this 'tail chasing" so I thought while I am recovering, I'd put in some time with the help of my "better half" and share what I find. I am just searching for the truth and this can only be found with information.
JMO and FWIW I didn't have to pay for any of the information I have posted,
Nez
http://www.otcbb.com/ site. Home page
Also at this site there is the "daily list" which supplies valuable information stocks, even PK and OTCBB
http://www.otcbb.com/otherdailylist/index_2007.htm
this is the "daily list" for Other-OTC / Portal Daily List Index
This is where the "Daily List Column Headings" is needed to be able to decipher the list and this is the link for that;
http://www.otcbb.com/DailyListContent/columns.stm
Now I see there are also links at the site where for $15.00 one can buy a MM Movement Report, on any company BB or "other-OTC and Portal securities," which are where the so-called PKs are listed.
from site
Market Maker Price Movement Report
Description of report
Description: The Market Maker Price Movement Reports details all of a Market Maker's updates (price and size) for a security. The report also includes the inside bid and ask at the time of each quote update. Click here to see a Sample Report (pdf format). To order this report, please be aware of the following:
Data for this report is only available on-line after 7/1/2001.
You must submit your request using the symbol as it appeared on the OTCBB during the date range you are requesting. Use the Daily List to determine symbol changes for the desired security.
https://www.otcbb.com/secure_asp/tradeact_report_request.asp?type=mmpmr#Desc
OTC Bulletin Board® Market Maker Price Movement Report
BICO - BIOCONTROL TECHNOLOGY,INC April 28, 2000 – April 28, 2000
Date Time MPID Bid Bid Size Ask Ask Size Status Inside
Bid
Inside Ask
Source: www.OTCBB.com/Nasdaq Trading & Market Services (202) 728-8477 page 1 of 5
04/28/2000 Sys. Open AAWC 0.21 5000 0.47 5000 0.247 0.25
ABLE 0.2 5000 0.3 5000
ALEX 0.242 5000 0.262 5000
ALFR 0.16 5000 0.258 5000
ALWC 0 0 0 0
AMPM 0.2 5000 0.5 5000
BELI 0 0 0 0 S
BISH 0.1 5000 0.39 5000
DONC 0.12 5000 0.3 5000
EDGE 0 0 0 0 E
ERNS 0.22 5000 0.26 5000
FLSC 0.172 5000 0.605 2500
FLTT 0.245 5000 0.27 5000
FLVL 0.125 5000 0 0
FRAN 0.24 5000 0.3 5000
FRGP 0 0 0 0
GFIN 0 0 0 0
GMFI 0 0 0 0
GVRC 0.247 5000 0.258 5000
HILL 0.237 5000 0.25 5000
HRZG 0.24 5000 0.27 5000
KENS 0 0 0 0
MASH 0.247 5000 0.251 5000
MHMY 0.22 5000 0.28 5000
MPAC 0.16 5000 0.37 5000
NAIB 0.15 5000 0.9 2500
NITE 0.245 5000 0.27 5000
PFSI 0.105 5000 0.285 5000
PGON 0.125 5000 0.28 5000
PRGM 0.23 5000 0.31 5000
SHRP 0.23 5000 0.26 5000
SHWD 0.24 5000 0.27 5000
SLKC 0.222 5000 0.25 5000
WDCO 0.24 5000 0.33 5000
WIEN 0.24 5000 0.27 5000
Amechi and EVERYONE,
First, since you a professor and most likely have an analytical mind and you made the observation which inspired me to go "web surfing" in search of a connection to level II, MMs and "smoke and mirrors" they might use, I give you this information and links. I personally don't have the experience to "grasp" it and be able to explain it in a way all here might benefit from. I feel very strongly that there is a good chance there are many here who can help the rest of us understand this information.
Also there has been much talk and speculation about DILUTION. Well it appears that MMs have the ability and do frequently DILUTE! LAST PART OF POST
Those who would have the board think just the company can do this are blowing smoke, IMO and based on the last part of this or S-8 Dilution. When reading this, I found many familiar things.
I encourage everyone to try and understand this and hopefully a concerted effort will yield important understanding for us that may explain things like yesterday's activity.
Follow these links. There is a lot here and many threads but if folks can get a handle on the MMs behavior they might feel less apprehensive and see that the MMs really play a "not so innocent" part in the stocks movement.
Maybe many heads can figure this out and how it applies to us.
I posted the 1/2007 report and I think many will see some familiar things. 45 mil + shares traded by one MM! IMO, that has to have an effect.
Apparently, it is not just companies who dilute as many here would have us believe. I may be misinterpreting this but check out the last section of this post. Seems clear as day other entities cause "dilution." I KNOW THIS IS A REPEAT OF PREVIOUS THOUGHTS BUT IMO, THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
MAKE SURE YOU READ LAST PART;
V) S-8 Dilution. I pasted and made it bold. It is towards the last part. All interesting and may explain days like Tuesday. I don't have the experience or time at this point to figure it out exactly......but I will!!!
JMO and FWIW, lets crack this information!!!,
(no proofing done)
Nez
http://www.hotstockmarket.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14938
Found on link:
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/tradeact_mv.asp?SearchBy=issue&Issue=atwt&SortBy=volume&Month=1....
February 21, 2007
Symbol:
MarketsQuoteLevel IIChartsNewsFilingsStreamer
Monthly Share Volume Report
Select a different report by entering an issue or MPID: Sort By: Report Date:
Issue Market Participant
Volume Issue/MPID
Jan 2007 Dec 2006 Nov 2006 Oct 2006 Sep 2006 Aug 2006 Jul 2006 Jun 2006 May 2006 Apr 2006 Mar 2006 Feb 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ATWT - ATWEC TECH INC
Page of 1
January 2007 December 2006 Year-to-Date
Volume Rank % Volume Rank % Volume Rank %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Share Volume 157,600,094
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETRD
E*TRADE CAPITAL MARKETS LLC 58,962,982 1 37 33,775,464 3 21 58,962,982 1 37
NITE
KNIGHT EQUITY MARKETS, L.P. 45,957,698 2 29 37,435,026 2 24 45,957,698 2 29
SBSH
CITIGROUP GLOBAL MARKETS INC. 38,878,902 3 24 57,101,545 1 36 38,878,902 3 24
UBSS
UBS Securities LLC (UBSS) 8,292,212 4 5 20,738,739 4 13 8,292,212 4 5
SSGI
SETON SECURITIES GROUP, INC. 5,003,300 5 3 1,076,700 6 <1 5,003,300 5 3
JEFF
JEFFERIES & COMPANY, INC. 460,000 6 <1 765,000 8 <1 460,000 6 <1
HDSN
HUDSON SECURITIES,INC. 35,000 7 <1 1,000,000 7 <1 35,000 7 <1
FRAN
WM. V. FRANKEL & CO., INCORPORATED 5,000 8 <1 - - - 5,000 8 <1
VERT
THE VERTICAL GROUP 5,000 8 <1 - - - 5,000 8 <1
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Page of 1
©2006 NASD. All rights reserved. | Legal Notices and Privacy Policy
EXPLORE LEVEL II
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IV) MM Behavior On Level II
Example of an ax who is selling:
When the market is rallying, the stock has a hard time moving higher, seemingly hitting a wall every time. And every time the wall seems to have the same initials and yet, when the strength subsides, the stock has no trouble falling. And funny enough, the ax seems to be following the stock down. That's where Level II comes into play. You have now found the missing link per se. You can see around the corner and start to see patterns. MM AX is on ask - it means he is driving price down - not good for us because we are buying and not shorting the stock (can't short OTCBB).
The ax seems to be following the stock down, he's killing the stock on the ask! If this behavior is recognized what would be the appropriate course of action? Going long the declines or selling the rallies?
Answer: selling the rallies. Since we can't on OTCBB and Upside is limited every time the stock tries to advance. Instead of trading against the ax and hoping that the buyers will overwhelm him, it is much smarter to sell with the ax and watch the stock fall as buyers pull away. Hence you would short it. The only kind of buying which should be going on is the covering of short positions as necessary. Work with the ax to your advantage.
Example of finding the dilutor on RWNT:
Input RWNT into monthly share report. Remember focus on top 5 spots. Don't count wholesalers. VERT is the dilutor. Explanation: Look at April. Then look at May. Nothing in April. Then he dumped 57mil shares in May. You can even go back to March and he wasn't even a listed MM. So he came on in April and then he started his selling. Keep in mind that RWNT is extreme and you're not always going to see that.
Example of MM supporting PPS stock northward:
Let's say that a stock (shell) has been lying quietly at $.25 bid $.50 offered. A limit order comes into one of the MMs to buy at $.50 for a thousand shares. Prior to this trade that MM may be "flat" (neither long nor short any shares). He fills the order and is now short 1,000 shares. He may raise his bid hoping to find a seller to "flatten" out his position. But before he realizes it a wave of buyers have come in and cleared out all the $.50 offers. Now the stock is $.50 bid .75 offered. Here comes that "Big" firm he just sold the 1,000 shares to at .50 with another bid for 1000 at .75. He makes this print. Now he is short 2,000 at an average of .625. The market keeps moving and now its .75 bid 1.00 offered. Now he has to make a decision. Just like investors, MM Hate to take a loss. So 9 times out of 10 he will now sell 2000 at 1.00 making him short 4000 but with an average .81. At this time he would love to see a seller at .75 so he can cover his short and make a few but instead the market keeps moving up. Now it is 1.00 to 1.25 and here comes the buyer again at 1.25. He doesn't want to lose the call so now he needs to sell 4,000 at 1.25 to keep his break even point above the bid. Now he is short 8,000. Market moves up to 1.25 bid 1.50 offer here comes the buyer now he feels he must sell 8000 here because "stocks don't go up forever". Now he is short 16,000. And so on and so on. If the stock keeps moving up, before he realizes it he could be short 50k or 100k shares (depending how big his bank is). Finally the market closes for the day and on paper he may look all right in that his "break even" price may be around the closing price. But now he has to figure out how to entice sellers so he can cover this short. It is important to note that if this happened to one MM it has probably happened to most all of them.
Some ways MM's entice sellers:
1. Run the stock up with a "tight spread" in a fast market, then "open" up the spread to slow down the buying interest. After it has "cooled off" for a little while lower the offer below the last trade right after a small piece trades on the offer then tighten the spread so that the sellers feel they can take a "quick profit" by "hitting the bid" on the tight spread. Once the selling starts the MM's will walk it down quickly by only making small prints on the way down with the tight spread.
2. Another way is by running the stock up in the morning, averaging up their short then use the above technique to walk it down in the afternoon. Hopefully, after doing this for several days, it will demoralize the buyers. The volume will dry up and the sellers will materialize thinking that the game is over. Contrary to popular opinion, MM usually Do Not Cover in Fast moving markets either Up or Down if they are short. They Short More. They usually try to cover after the frenzy is out of the market. There are many other techniques they use but the above are the most popular.
These techniques work about 9 times out of 10 particularly in a BB market. However, that is because 9 out of 10 BB stocks are BS. Remember what I said above. Most MM's don't have a clue as to the value of a Company until they get trapped.
Continued...
__________________
Re: EXPLORE LEVEL II
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V) S-8 Dilution
Look in the filings of a particular stock for S-8's. The filings aren't that bad of a dilution, some can even be employee stock options. The MM ax will remain on the ask until the S-8 share selling is completed. The price at which they sell isn't important since they are shares TO BE SOLD, the ax won't be looking to BARGAIN SELL THEM.
Once the ax seller steps off ask and starts supporting the bid, look for a run upwards. You will see a lot of market maker shifting as well as MM's need to get ready for stock to reverse into the opposite direction (upwards). You usually want to buy a little right before the S-8 is completed to benefit from such runs.
S-8 share selling doesn't always drive the price down as opposed to any other form of dilution.
Example of an S-8 dilution done smart : BMIC was diluting ONEV, but he did it right and it still ran hard with him selling the whole way up. Look up BMIC's monthly share report on ONEV (APRIL 04). *
VI) Key Level II Players:
TOP 5 MOST IMPORTANT (typically out of dilution) : NITE, ETRD, SCHB, TDCM & ARCA.
NITE & SCHB are wholesalers, TDCM a retailer, ETRD a retail ECN and ARCA an ECN.
NITE : This is the king MM of the OTC. He intimides traders and other MMs use that to their advantage knowing that he scares them. That's why NITE is the shaker on most stock runs; he is the most common ax. NITE could be on the ask all the time, he could be leading a dip scaring sellers to his buddies SCHB and TDCM on the bid.
TDCM : Retailer MM, you love him on the bid.
Biggest OTCBB ECNs : GNET, TRAC & DATA - you love them on bids also.
Other ECNs : ARCA, BRUT, BTRD, INCA, INTL, ISLD, REDI
Big Shorters : JIMK, POND, GNET or ARCA (anyone can use GNET, even other MMs because it's an ECN).
Wholesalers : ETRD, HRZG, MASH, NITE, SHWB
Top Retail Dilutors : ACAP, AGIS, BAMM, BMIC, CHIG, CLYP, FANC, FRAN, JIMK, MAYF, NATL, PERT, SACM, UCAP, VERT, VFIN
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's it for Level II, always keep learning!
Sincerely,
RG
a big thank you goes to ATS for all the help on this
*** Also read JP's explanation on L2 http://tinyurl.com/4wap3 ***
V) S-8 Dilution
Look in the filings of a particular stock for S-8's. The filings aren't that bad of a dilution, some can even be employee stock options. The MM ax will remain on the ask until the S-8 share selling is completed. The price at which they sell isn't important since they are shares TO BE SOLD, the ax won't be looking to BARGAIN SELL THEM.
Once the ax seller steps off ask and starts supporting the bid, look for a run upwards. You will see a lot of market maker shifting as well as MM's need to get ready for stock to reverse into the opposite direction (upwards). You usually want to buy a little right before the S-8 is completed to benefit from such runs.
S-8 share selling doesn't always drive the price down as opposed to any other form of dilution.
Example of an S-8 dilution done smart : BMIC was diluting ONEV, but he did it right and it still ran hard with him selling the whole way up. Look up BMIC's monthly share report on ONEV (APRIL 04). *
VI) Key Level II Players:
TOP 5 MOST IMPORTANT (typically out of dilution) : NITE, ETRD, SCHB, TDCM & ARCA.
NITE & SCHB are wholesalers, TDCM a retailer, ETRD a retail ECN and ARCA an ECN.
NITE : This is the king MM of the OTC. He intimides traders and other MMs use that to their advantage knowing that he scares them. That's why NITE is the shaker on most stock runs; he is the most common ax. NITE could be on the ask all the time, he could be leading a dip scaring sellers to his buddies SCHB and TDCM on the bid.
TDCM : Retailer MM, you love him on the bid.
Biggest OTCBB ECNs : GNET, TRAC & DATA - you love them on bids also.
Other ECNs : ARCA, BRUT, BTRD, INCA, INTL, ISLD, REDI
Big Shorters : JIMK, POND, GNET or ARCA (anyone can use GNET, even other MMs because it's an ECN).
Wholesalers : ETRD, HRZG, MASH, NITE, SHWB
Top Retail Dilutors : ACAP, AGIS, BAMM, BMIC, CHIG, CLYP, FANC, FRAN, JIMK, MAYF, NATL, PERT, SACM, UCAP, VERT, VFIN
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's it for Level II, always keep learning!
Sincerely,
RG
a big thank you goes to ATS for all the help on this
*** Also read JP's explanation on L2 http://tinyurl.com/4wap3 ***
Heck race, if we all had a buck for each time someone got in and it ended lower, we would all be rich!! LOL Don't sweat it, IMO there is too much going on with no bad news and like the St. Laurence Seaway filled with ice flows it will break lose sooner than later. It's been quiet for too long.
JMO,
Nez
HA! Found the links!!!! This guys board is neat two. I would really welcome the chance to discuss these "reads" with an experienced trader. He has had an "INCREDIBLE" set of calls for the last week and 1/2 or two. Has to know more than the average trader! He puts his "plays in the I-Box.
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=11994355
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=11994293
Later,
Nez
Check out level II and the trades. These are not casual traders! They do this like you and I breath!
Now I really gotta go, I'll never get a parking spot!
TTYL,
Nez
Joker,
I PMed this to some others. It made some things easier for me conceptualize. I don't have the link but it is in an I box one one of the boards. Maybe someone else knows, if so please let me know. TIA.
Gotta get the kids,TTYL and hang tough,
Nez
(didn't check for errors, no time)
FWIW;
Good MM read #1 >>
Good read here on MM games>
Example of MM supporting PPS stock northward:
Let's say that a stock (shell) has been lying quietly at $.25 bid $.50 offered. A limit order comes into one of the MMs to buy at $.50 for a thousand shares. Prior to this trade that MM may be flat (neither long nor short any shares). He fills the order and is now short 1,000 shares. He may raise his bid hoping to find a seller to flatten out his position. But before he realizes it a wave of buyers have come in and cleared out all the $.50 offers. Now the stock is $.50 bid .75 offered. Here comes that Big firm he just sold the 1,000 shares to at .50 with another bid for 1000 at .75. He makes this print. Now he is short 2,000 at an average of .625. The market keeps moving and now its .75 bid 1.00 offered. Now he has to make a decision. Just like investors, MM Hate to take a loss. So 9 times out of 10 he will now sell 2000 at 1.00 making him short 4000 but with an average .81. At this time he would love to see a seller at .75 so he can cover his short and make a few but instead the market keeps moving up. Now it is 1.00 to 1.25 and here comes the buyer again at 1.25. He doesn't want to lose the call so now he needs to sell 4,000 at 1.25 to keep his break even point above the bid. Now he is short 8,000. Market moves up to 1.25 bid 1.50 offer here comes the buyer now he feels he must sell 8000 here because stocks don't go up forever. Now he is short 16,000. And so on and so on. If the stock keeps moving up, before he realizes it he could be short 50k or 100k shares (depending how big his bank is). Finally the market closes for the day and on paper he may look all right in that his break even price may be around the closing price. But now he has to figure out how to entice sellers so he can cover this short. It is important to note that if this happened to one MM it has probably happened to most all of them.
Some ways MM's entice sellers:
1. Run the stock up with a tight spread in a fast market, then open up the spread to slow down the buying interest. After it has cooled off for a little while lower the offer below the last trade right after a small piece trades on the offer then tighten the spread so that the sellers feel they can take a quick profit by hitting the bid; on the tight spread. Once the selling starts the MM's will walk it down quickly by only making small prints on the way down with the tight spread.
2. Another way is by running the stock up in the morning, averaging up their short then use the above technique to walk it down in the afternoon. Hopefully, after doing this for several days, it will demoralize the buyers. The volume will dry up and the sellers will materialize thinking that the game is over. Contrary to popular opinion, MM usually Do Not Cover in Fast moving markets either Up or Down if they are short. They Short More. They usually try to cover after the frenzy is out of the market. There are many other techniques they use but the above are the most popular.
Good MM read #2...
Good read on MMs..
The savvy long-term investors never chase stocks up. For the most part that is
momentum players and daytraders where most of it or what follows is dumb
money. Instead the long-term investors use a couple of simple strategies in
order to position themselves. One is to find a stock no one immediately sees
has huge potential and accumulate. Long-term investors are not interested in
trading against the public mind or the dumb money. That's where the majority
of the money can be made but even more can be made if the base of a stock is
held extremely strong by investors. However the second is not to doubt the
research which is the underlying basis for going long and holding.
More and more investors are winning the game nowadays despite all bashers that
float through the Internet that has become part of the game. Floor traders of
market makers often watch CNBC, news wires and bulletin boards in order to
follow the market during trading session. OTC BB market makers (MMs) don't use
fundamental and technical analysis. However, what they do realize is a lot of
dumb money does use this newest nitch charting or TA (Technical Analysis) to
run a stock either up or down. To the MMs this is like taking candy from a
baby. Simply they will paint the tape and use whatever tactic to affect the
charting bands. Thus the public and dumb money they will have eating out of
their hands. Effectively the MMs can show a strong stock growing weak by
manipulating the close price in order to generate selling volume, delaying
trading time to manipulate trading activities, or even stalling the ask
without honoring orders to hold a stock price.
MMs follow a simple code of business when making a market in a stock
especially an OTC BB. That is the level that stocks will seek that yields the
most volume. Now this is very important because they make money on the volume
buying at the bid and selling at the ask. In other words, by making the market
they are buying low and selling high. Now smart money adheres to that rule, so
do all the market makers. They could careless whether the stock is at $83 or
at $0.23. All they care about is the action thus being able to sell stock at
the offer (The high) and buy stock at the bid (The low). To increase their
profitability, they make the spread as great as possible on as many shares as
they can especially if the volume falls off.
When they have mostly all "buy" orders, that's not the price that's going to
yield the most volume. They need both buy and sells to get the maximum action.
Remember, MMs play the volume. If the volume decreases and there are mostly
Buys that become a one way volume, Buy volume. So what they do is let the
stock run up to a price where it runs out of steam. They fill all the buy
orders there that they can and then comes the pullback one way or another
naturally or induced. During the pull back they can buy tons of shares and
flip them to those averaging down or trying to catch the bounce. At some
price, the stock will be relatively stable and yield the most volume. Now that
is the average price you will see
The average price is the point where a stock seeks a level where MMs can
profit on the most volume. So during the day that is the price that MMs and
momentum/day traders want to see the stock at. Why? Because they know the
public and dumb money was chasing the price thing up. Most of the time, the
MMs love a flurry of Market Orders which is a dead sign of an artificial run
or momentum. Merely it is money in the bank for them. Most get hung in a
momentum or day trade or by the tactics of Market makers, who are in the
business to screw the public every chance they get and the NASD is not going
to do anything about it. They are merely making the market liquid is there
reasoning.
The market makers have created an added complication to the OTCBB's chaos of
the already volatile intra-day price movements created by dumb money, momentum
and day-traders. MMs can not relate to long-term holders in the OTC BB. That
makes absolutely no sense what so ever. They feel a large percentage of trades
in the OTC BB market consist of short-term or day-trades, MMs merely view the
barrage of buy and sell orders as relatively neutral to the market. How they
figure it is when the average dumb money buys shares in a company, the MMs
feel or rather know with some certainty it is very likely that dumb money will
want to sell back those shares relatively quick on the slightest drop.
Now somewhat comfortable with this logic the MMs merely short sells into the
buying and attempts to take the stock down in an effort to "shake out" the
weak. Since it is tough to know for sure whether a move is the beginning of a
trend, or a routine shake out, this type of deception works quite well for the
MMs. What the long-termers do to a stock is surprise the MMs because instead
of falling the shorting has no effect and the price goes up. Now that puts the
MM at selling low through shorting and thus having to buy high in order to
cover.
Boy, when this happens, the MMs are not very happy campers. The investors and
traders are supposed to be doing that no them. Now it becomes time to pull out
every trick and tactic in the book in order to attempt to get a Bear Raid at
every dollar mark or percent from where the stock started. Could be a penny in
smaller priced securities? What MMs do is give you a chance to make a small
amount of money for your momentum and day trading style by shorting it at
these levels and trying to get a bear raid each time. Each failure is
compounding the MMs short position so they let it go to the next level. Now
come more deliberate tactics MMs use to coerce Bear Raid or panic selling.
Once the MM is caught short and the strength of the buy is overpowering the MM
will want to cover his short position. So the MMs call up one of his friendly
MMs and says some like "the weather is sure rough today." The MM along with
the other "friendly MM initiates a down tick about the same time. Now this can
also be done with a certain amount of shares such as an infamous 100 shares
flag. This down tick gives the illusion of weakness designed to hopefully
begin the bear raid of selling. The fickle, fearful, day trader, momentum and
short term begin to sell out allowing the MM to cover his short position at
lower prices. They will move it down quickly to get it to a price of least
financial damage. Problem they have is long-term investors in the OTC BB. They
start accumulating and buying comes flying in when they take it too far thus
the MMs took it to the point of volume again and not only investors the other
MMs step in the make money on the spread.
Alas the poor MM does not get to cover. Now comes various tactics like
stalling, boxing, or even locking the Bid and Ask for a while.
Of course, MMs aggressively deny any sort of collusion designed to fix quotes
or spreads, but a recent SEC investigation tells another story.
MMs have a vast resource of tactics and it would take probably more than my
lifetime to figure them all out.
So how do investors somehow manage to overcome the obvious deception in OTCBB
arena? One answer is indirection trading style by going long which the MMs do
not expect. In the war between investors and public companies on the OTC BB vs
the MMs, if the MMs have all the advantages due to position or other factors,
direct confrontation such as momentum or day trading hitting the stock is a
definite death sentence.
However, an indirect approach tends to weaken the path of least resistance
before slowly overcoming it. The most effective way is long-term investors
slowly accumulating and holding thus drawing the MMs out of its defenses
making them as naked as their short position. This is war so this slow
accumulation and holding for the long term easily achieves the desired effect
to force MMs to cover and knock off the tactics or bury themselves deeper.
The MMs when caught will especially use every trick and tactic in the book to
get a Bear Raid thus playing on the individual fear of most people. The MMs
feel they have information and position advantages over the investors as long
as the holding of the stock is in weak hands or short term holders. Since they
are OTC BB MMs who believe all OTCBB companies are not worth investing and
management is ineffective regardless what is happening within the company.
Furthermore, MMs know they are in the position to impose a great deal of
influence in OTC BB stocks trading when it suits their needs.
This inherent power of position enables the MMs to move the markets at any
time up or down. As a result, the only way to draw them out of their favorable
position is going long. Now this does not mean just any company but to
effectively nail the MMs, Longs must find the great company on the floor and
accumulate long before the MM tactics and games begin.
JUST FOUND THIS ONE TODAY. WISH I COULD REMEMBER THE FIRST TWO SOURCES AS I AM NOT THE AUTHOR AND CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=7489
Manipulation:
This is a device used more by Market Makers (MMs) than others, but by no means, limited to them alone.
MMs rank right behind bankers, lawyers, politicians, and many CEOs.
They have the ability to create what appears to be volume and increase in pps (price per share), giving the false impression that a stock is going up in value. What is to be closely watched for is whether it is a sustained increase in pps, or only temporary.
They have the ability to 'over accentuate' a 'run' giving the impression the issue is going up quickly. Often, they will naked short shares at the HOD (high of day) only to buy them back (from you) on the retrace. They understand terms like 'weak hands', 'panic', 'fear', and have no qualms of using their skills to make themselves more money at your expense.
No one makes more money in the stock market, than MMs. Usually, it's YOUR money, they make!
MMs have an arsenal of tricks they use, of which would be impossible to outline them all. Other common ones are signals. Often, they will use 100 share trades to take a pps up or down, depending on what their desire is. If they have shares they want to sell, they will try to 'take it up', giving the appearance of a pps going up in value. Conversely, when they need shares, they 'take the pps down', on 100 share trades, hoping to 'shake weak hands' loose of their shares with the fear of a plumetting pps.
Another form of manipulation is performed by unscrupulous investors or investment bankers, usually by 'bidwhacking' a pps down, so as to buy more shares at lower prices, whether on the open market or thru private placements. (A private placement is when a company sells shares directly to an investor, as opposed to the open market).
OT
I hope all longs who don't yet have severe arthritis in their hands, at least get a temporary bout of it until the black out is lifted!
LOL, I'm just kidding as I wouldn't wish this on anyone for anything.
Better yet would be to see all the longs and new blood have the firmest of convictions and confidence in ATWC and the DD that got them here to begin with. As IMO, this may be the best potential to cause the MMs the most grief; Longs who will not sell until there is a better than darn good reason! I honestly have not felt any regrets with ATWT, aside from being "scared" into doing things I shouldn't have with the stock in the past and all based on smoke and mirrors, IMO. Welcome Racedave and Frankey, good to see new folks!
TTYL,
Nez
Mac,
Glad to hear that and I feel better now as I value your opinion.
Nez
Mac,
I believe this person may have mixed up some pages of DD from ATWT with another set of DD pages from some other stock.
JMO,
Nez
Forgot to mention this but it seems to me that everytime we have gotten news for the last few months, the pps goes down! Nez
I wondered about why so many companies are now incorporating in NV these days This may get someone started....http://www.nv-inc.com/
(Why Incorporate in Nevada?
No Corporate Income Tax
No Taxes on Corporate Shares
No Franchise Tax
No Personal Income Tax
No I.R.S. Information Sharing Agreement
Nominal Annual Fees
Minimal Reporting and Disclosure Requirements)
IMO, the proceeding, from the link above, provides some reasons why some companies are incorporating in NV.
After one were to get started, they could then type "incorporate in NV" in browser and you will find many places explaining why NV is the new "Delaware" of incorporations. Taxes have a bit to do with it I think.
I would hope that anyone attempting to develop an air of legitimacy on the board, with a brand new account registered today with I-Hub,"
Profile for stock_gill
Alias Born On: Monday, February 19, 2007
Boards Moderated: 0
Total Posts: 2
Would provide the information they ask for if they already posted similar information but from another date. The source point for the posted information should have the same type of information but with other dates, no?
If one is a smart investor, why would they be asking a public BB, where they know no one and are known to no one, for important DD, they are basing an investment on? Isn't it sort of like total, blind faith to ask a BB, where you know no one, for information you are going to trust? If you were not planning on trusting it, then I don't understand someone even asking.
Also, while I can be patient, faith is not my cup of tea. Not when it comes down to money.
I came across a site the other day which had the signature saying or what ever it is at the end of some people's posts, that said, "Anyone who asks a BB for important DD deserves to lose their money," or words to that effect.
No offense but something seems insincere, IMHO. If I am wrong, then my apologies and I will be awaiting the pertinent information to be posted which would, in my view, go a long way building some type of authenticity or trustworthiness.
Nez
From the "Daily List" OTCBB Daily List Index 2007
http://www.otcbb.com/dailylist/index_2007.htm
DailyListDate|Type|NewSymbol|OldSymbol|NewName|OldName|EffDate|Comments|Notes|CoPhone|Mkt_Cat
02/16/2007 16:43:31|S2|NEXA|NEXH|Nexia Holdings, Inc. New Common Stock|Nexia Holdings, Inc. Common Stock|02/20/2007|1-10 R/S **|||U
Nez
OT
BooDog,
TIA, is the acronym for "Thanks In Advance."
Nez
OT
I know this isn't an intelligent reply but are your concerns about the board or the company? Are you are "invested" in ATWT?
No disrespect meant but you only mentioned that you were a "first time poster" and didn't mention if you were holding ATWT, just thinking about getting in or "window shopping or comparison shopping."
Again no disrespect but if you think many of the longs here have the same concerns over managements' "trustworthiness," IMO, we wouldn't be here. We all have our own personal hopes and fears but it remains to be seen if they are legitimate or just thoughts that have been cultivated by others posts. As far as ETIM goes, I'm sure there are hundreds of "look, this negative or positive thing could happen to ATWT" stocks out there.
Just a thought but there has been a blackout of official news for awhile now with ATWT so also IMO, anything could happen but the chances of future events being positive are higher.
I'm just curious as you seem to have done a little DD.
IMO, the "daytraders, swing traders and flippers, are long gone from the ranks of the longs in ATWT. We may not have gotten into ATWT to be longs but after being forced to hold for so long, IMO, many now feel the best way to come out ahead on this stock is to surrender to being long and strong as the rewards will be great.
If you can support your comparisons then please post.
TIA,
Nez
Mac,
I guess it is a matter of perspective. The way I understand it is that the "aggressive marketing campaign" would, if I were doing it, focus on any and all school districts that are already connected with West Bend or ATWEC and are within the areas of operations of these companies. That alone is a huge area. I know that the people on my school board would have no idea about other state insurance carriers unless those carriers had an active local presence.
Same goes for a marketing company. School districts change their names from year to year due to combining with other districts.
West Bend's web site, http://www.wbmi.com/Common/ASPDocuments/default.asp,
states: "WB is a Wisconsin based company. Today, about 450 independent agencies represent our company in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin and Ohio."
I don't have information about the size of ATWEC's customer base or for that matter their distributor base area. I would first focus on the most likely and cost effective opportunities which IMO would be the closest first.
Then ATWEC would have to find and send mailings to the school districts that actually have busses and don't sub out, share with other school districts, or even have buses of their own. This can only happen, according to a relative, who is a Superintendent, by networking from one customer district to another. This is a big and time consuming job.
As far as legislation goes, don't forget that there is and always has been an active disagreement between the Federal Government and State Governments over what limit the Federal has over State's Legislative rights. I won't even go into the same version of debate between the States and the local Governments. In other words, almost every state has a different line in the sand which the federal governments can't cross. It will take some time until those liable for the bus' operations will recognize the fact that money may be saved by finding a cheaper yet more effective insurance carrier than their current.
Maybe this is why "Geico Insurance" is marketing so heavily the "one stop shopping company" with the lizard saying you just have to go to one place and you can compare everything. JMO.
Every tax paying resident (with kids) of every town knows better than any marketing company if the busses as well as the insurance bills are the towns or the states or the federal govt.'s responsibility. Citizens tend to know where to go in town better than an out of state insurance company or the best marketing firm on earth does. In the sense that the citizens know their town and what laws they have voted for better than a merchant from out of town, I guess I am saying we should "un-officially" lobby. Besides the fact that there are 100 senators (2 for each state) and hundreds or even thousands of local level government legislators, yet how many employees are there at ATWEC?
After all I know for a fact that my local state senator knows my town better than my federal senator.
JMO,
Nez
Sorry folks about the oversight.
Once you go to the link, http://www.national-scientific.com/ in the previous post, click on Travado IBUS and then click on Travado IBUS Systems Overview on the left. Or the School Transportation Facts on the right and these may help clarify the points I am trying to make about the different company's features. The obvious point, is the difference between the other company and ATWEC, is that the bus and the child are separate. My child has a tough time keeping track of things let alone a biometrics card.
The ATWEC system forces the driver to physically check for children. I would be more comfortable with this.
Also, FWIW, there seems to be many out there who have the "Big Brother" syndrome. With others having the ability to track us or our kids, some may balk. This argument would not be applicable with ATWEC products as it would possibly be with the other company's.
There is a big uproar about the increase in school taxes here in my county, and if the school district could save on insurance for busses while at the same time helping secure children, it would be accepted with open arms.
Right now after some investigating, I have learned that our school district uses another non-driver at the end of the run to go back to the bus and recheck that the driver didn't overlook somebody. In spite of this a few years back, a child was left aboard. The ATWEC system would eliminate the cost of the second bus checker, lower the overall bus insurance and there by lower school taxes. Earlier, when I called my Representative's office, and I was asked to gather information to provide "the office" so they could investigate for presentation to the school board for comparison. The only similarity between the two company's systems is that in my school district, it is mandatory to have mounting fixtures installed on all busses so that cameras can be installed temporarily if the need arises. No one but the School Superintendent knows what bus will have the actual camera installed. The cameras are moved randomly from one bus to another if there is no definitive need. This is the only overlap between the ATWEC line and the NTSC line. I was told that the system is as it is due to the prohibitive costs associated with maintaining and the placement of cameras on every bus.
I guess it shouldn't surprise me the Rep. even though he has run unopposed for the last two elections, is interested in this. I live in a fairly small community and most people know each other so the prospect of possibly alleviating to some extent, a hot button issue like school taxes is very appealing to the Congressman. I should have realized this much sooner.
I must admit that I have not done anything worthwhile about bringing to the attention of my representatives, the opportunity to help kids while also lowering bus insurance and ultimately school taxes. Now I can see the need and will make this effort also. I apologize to the original ATWEC I-Hub moderators who posted in the I-Box the appeal to bring this issue to the attention of our legislators.
I hope others will join me and if there is any information I dig up or experience I can share when meeting with the right people, I gladly will.
In no way, am I saying NTSC is going to be involved with ATWEC or not but viewing their system and knowing it must be more costly than ATWEC's as well as requiring more interaction on the part of the driver than walking to the back of the bus at the end of run and disarming the system after checking on the way and on the way back, for kids, has heightened my approval for the ATWEC line. If something is worked out, with NTSC, or some other similar company that would be great but ATWEC's approach, IMO, is far more appropriate and applicable for this application.
I learned all this after reading the "speculation" about NTSC just a short while ago. Think of what we all could do if we all spend an hour or two just checking to see if it is worth the effort to alert our own individual School Districts and lawmakers.
Some school boards may not be raising taxes; some places may already have legislation in place, some school districts may outsource this service and others may not see the need for further safety enhancements but what the heck? The worst anyone can say is no and then you will have tried and if God forbid, something does go wrong in your town, you will know you did all you could. I know I can't say that and to make it worse I know more about school bus safety than most due to my watching ATWEC.
It has been my experience my local reps and even the Federal ones (if you can get an appointment) don't mind listening especially if they might look good! After finally bringing it up to someone who is one of those people who is involved with everything in the community or so it seems, I realize now that this is not just about a stock but it is an issue people with power and influence will consider if they just know of it. Instead of spending so much time posting about ATWEC, I am making a commitment to do all that I can, to get this looked at by those who can make a difference.
If nothing else, I will get the chance to see in person, how willing bussing administrators and legislators are about this. One thing is for sure, based on what I know about ATWEC's customer base, I am assuming that if bus companies or the community officials that legislate them are not going to be using the product, then it might be time to move on.
That's what it's all about isn't it, customer base and sales?
Here are some numbers others may be able to use with information from ATWEC and West Bend to give to their Reps. so they can approach their school boards to at least check out and compare or do so themselves and possibly propose some legislation. (From NTSC's site) but it is a start. I'll list information as I find it. I will let the board know how this effort is received.
School Bus Experts
School Bus Information Council (toll-free hotline to experts): (888) 367-7242
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA): (202) 366-9550
National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB): (202) 314-6100
Safety Board (NTSB): (202) 314-6100
I think I finally get it. If we want to help ATWEC and our kids, then the only thing will be to get the word to the right people and not posting threats or personal trading information that can be taken advantage of by enabling those who have the means to influence to manipulate us and thereby the pps. This time, I am holding very close to the 52 wk low after selling some time ago, a portion for a substantial loss, now that I am far more loaded than when I sold, I won't sell for a loss or even a breakeven so therefore, barring a meteor impact, I am a prisoner to this stock and believe it or not I know it is alright! That being said, I will not sit on my laurels now that I know how and who to go to make a difference. Who posted "Just one big contract? I bet if we all try, some are going to happen.
JMHO,
Nez
Mac,
When I posted my letter jumble, I was just checking under the 'past posts" of the one who apparently lost their computer. I meant by my HMMMM, this should be good!
I have nothing to say about that individual other than he is what he is.
Disgruntled is just the tip of the problems.
As for you, Mac, I apologize if you misinterpreted my post as implying that you and this "other person," who was so worried on Aug. 4th, 2006 about the stock having the ability to go higher, are the same.
It is crystal clear that there is no connection between you and him. In my book, after reading his posts, we could be in for a real good chance for the strategy used by the big W to finally put the MM's and their, IMO, paid bashers, out of ATWT and into something else. You really should go to his last post, click on his name and read some of the words of wisdom there! As I said, he is what he is and you are who you are, which not him is!
JMO,
Nez
HMMMMM
By the way, if you go to the site below, you will read something to the effect that bus transportation is one of the safest forms of transport. Fine.
ATWEC address the lack of safety when a child is left on the bus!
IMO, two totally different things.
Cameras can't see through seats and doesn't alert aurally or any other way if a check at the end of route is done. ATWEC fills this need.
JMO,
Nez
http://www.national-scientific.com/
http://www.national-scientific.com/ NTSC Web Site
Matt, IMO, it seems you are suffering from self inflicted ignorance. I don't see how a company which produces totally different products would want or try to compete with a company whose products have no similarity. But together the two company's products can only logically enhance the overall safety level if the two simply joined forces or syncronized efforts. ATWEC can offer things NTSC doesn't and NTSC offers things ATWEC doesn't. Apples and Oranges but together a tasty salad! Both companies have contacts that the other one doesn't, but together each increases their contacts. I can't see this being a bad thing for either or us for that matter. As far as your other claims, please provide information that backs it up.
JMO,
Nez
From another board:
TO ALL....
Days like today are a given.First and foremost one MUST be able to take advan of low volume lulls and dips.OR just take a few hours off or the whole day if one isnt goin to add positions on dips.This is healthy and normal for ALL stocksbig and small so one has to notice this that lulls bring some solid opps. (sic)
IMO, I have to agree with this position and I understand things are, IMO, much different with ATWT as far as the difficulty with a day like this. The post, I cut and pasted here, is about stocks that have not caused the "pain" levels we have felt with ATWT. Then again, IMO, not many stocks have the high level of potential ATWT has.
FWIW, I called the company and found out Mr. W. has been out of town yesterday and I don't mean on vacation. I explained to the person I spoke with, I wasn't calling about the PPS issue but something else which could only be addressed by Mr. W.
IMO, he would not be away from the office to sit and watch things fall apart but if he is like other driven entrepreneurs who became successful, he is out making things happen which will benefit the company and ultimately, the share holders.
Unfortunately, when trying to stay a step ahead of the competition or trying not to break any rules or disclosure regulations, it would defeat the purpose to post all that is happening within the company, on a BB, where you don't even know who many of the posters or readers are. As I have said before, it seems that prospective progress is just speculation until the money is seen in the till. Then you can tell the shareholders about it if they haven't already seen the results and we will see those POSITIVE results! Just some thoughts and TTYL.
JMO,
Nez
The CEO and his communications! LOL
Nez
Don't know about 911, but from this board - http://www.investorshub.com/boards/board.asp?board_id=4780
MM SIGNALS !!
100 > I need shares
200 > I need shares badly but dont take it down to get em
300 > Take the price down to get shares....
400 > Trade it sideways based on Supply and Demand
500 > Gap one way or the other, usually to the direction
of the 500 trade. Sometimes -if in the middle -keep the price right where it is.
FWIW,
nez
Makes no sense, I am now at my goal and still under .002 but I am still P.O'd as we should be so much higher if folks would let things develop and support a rally, this would be much higher and well into a "cover period." But WE won't let that happen. How many, I wonder have sold for a few 1/10,000s increase and not even considered the commissions?
I have found research which indicates the group of traders with the highest losing % is the constant trader. Don't know if this is true but seems that way.
The only other thing I can think of and others who know have told me is that there is a cabal of MMs who buy at a few million +ticks one day from other MMs and then a few days later the buying MMs get to sell for thier few million +ticks and back and forth it goes with the real cream coming from weak, handed wanna be instant millionaires.
Not anyone has said this is a likely scenario. With no dilution proven, (had real accountants check as a favor) it seems we have no one but ourselves to blame.
Large short interest will hurt the company only in proportion to those who believe "day trading" is the only way to trade. IMO, they are the ones who can't stand holding more than they can't stand losing money. Short interest, IMO, indicates a company with strong potential as pro's don't bother with companies going nowhere or so a retired pro told me.
Pro's read message board to get to know the type of investors there and if they are solid or going to be easy to manipulate. Stocks aren't manipulated, stock holdersare.
I have a friend who invented a great tool for aircraft engine use. He couldn't raise money to market it. Finally swallowed his pride and put it in his wife's name. Suddenly, as a minority owned company, financing began to flow and they are now retired. Point is this alone provided a great advantage for him and his wife even though another mechanic was trying to scam his idea. Companies with this advantage have an edge. ATWEC has this also and IMO, much, much more.
Some say D&D is more important than Fundamentals before buying a stock. I am beginning to believe before either, comes reading Bulletin Boards to get a feel for the longs. If they have been in a stock they originally assumed would allow them to be millionaires the following year at the latest but due to the MMs learning of the co's potential, forcing the company to do the smart thing and try and limit information to be "spun" by resorting to a "Black Out." Rather than applaud the "black out," which must be very hard on the company's management team, who have friends and reputations and don't like feeling foolish anymore than us, the holders turn almost bi-polar and turn from how great you are to hang 'em high. If we find this situation, I am now willing to bet that each time things begin to give the company a chance through positive developments, even if unannounced, like they are still there with no change of plans announced or negative filings filed or they are not at their particular business sectors trade events or no one is showing interest like large, reputable insurance companies, any which could help to pull the pps out of the short interest's control, the disgruntled will sell at the first chance over 3-5, 1/10,000ths of a share profit. In spite of buying in the 1/1000-100th and even higher price per share ranges, the benefit of the doubt (based on positive things) won't be given. Oh yeah, who cares about commissions?
Longs, once enthusiastic about a stock, and now bitter due to management's shifting to "Quite Mode," for good reasons, posse a grave threat to any and all rallies. A "Quite Mode" is not a bad thing when the company is visible and active conducting business in its particular sector. Now if there were a "Quite Mode" and all knew the company was in court all day, this would be a different story! We don't see any negative things here but growing pains while trying to defend against coordinated pps rapists! Many times, just because there is no news, doesn't mean bad things are happening!
Not many saw RGNO, NXNO, FCCN or others even coming and when they did, all you heard was it was a nutty move to even consider them! The stock hasn't traded in months, there is ) volume and on and on but look at them now.
Who gets blamed for the following....?
WE HIT THE LOW OF THE DAY AND THE: B x A SIZES GO FROM 10,000 x 5,000 to 5,000 x 10,000! We all know things are happening and we have waited over a year but a few more days, weeks or even a month is going to kill us!?!
JMO, this stock has changed from a swap stock to an investment stock. Sell your large holdings now while keeping some "in case," so you can go out and find those "needles in the hay stacks." At least you be trading and not watching paint dry.
Thanks for the vent session but I had to as ATWEC is going to have it's day and anyone who gets PO'd because we can't pin the day down, IMO shouldn't be investing.
ALL JMO,
Nez
misterfixdit,
Who is they and what about this last post not to mention your others? I am not trying to be facetious, disrespectful, nor am I calling your integrity into question, but your posts and your short history has me confused.
I know this is my last post as I will be following my own advice which is "if there is something I don't know about then it may be best to shut my mouth." It follows, I think, your posted advice, which I agree with.
Nez
(sic to the end of post)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: misterfixdit
In reply to: None
Date: 2/8/2007 5:30:54 AM
Post # of 37050
there is no doubt a blackout on any news and just PR's full of fluff, no actual numbers to go by. A new call center, insurance deals, contracts from contacts made at conferences attended,and (sic)excess units assembled in advance to be ready for the influx of new orders, and much more to be sure there are numbers and they are being held back. IHUB members have revealed that they have a substantial amount of the OS and they pour forth all the info they have. Maybe its time we quit voicing our wants and intentions, sort of a blackout of our own. To limit what they know from us may give them less control or cause them to throw us a bone so to speak.
Posted by: misterfixdit
In reply to: enochian1 who wrote
Date: 1/31/2007 11:00:11 AM
Post # of 37050
I agree, Investsource has a contract with Atwec therefore no more info from Alex or the company lest they violate that contract. Boggled indeed, truly boggled.
1/24/2007 6:10:49 AM
Post # of 37050
Just my thoughts here but who has access to all company information? Who puts out the PRs? Who has the "gag" on the company because they are the official PR firm? Who would you suspect is letting shares drop to a near all time low? Alex! I think his hands are tied so to speak. I would focus on good ol Investsource. ATWEC by all available information is doing well its the promotion or public relations thats very poor and thats their job.
Posted by: misterfixdit
In reply to: None
Date: 1/22/2007 11:19:04 AM
Post # of 37050
Its painfully obvious that since nothing negative has happened yet the price plunges (after a sudden deluge of never before heard from multi million share holders)that some want this very low for some reason, this is not just chance or longs taking a loss, I'm holding tight to mine though very confused,LOL, JMHO
Neo,
Good job. The perspective you use is right on in my opinion.
Also IMO, we should all be quite until there is something substantive to comment on. I know I have blown it again and not followed my own advice! Sorry)
That's what non posters are doing as well as reading our posts giving them information while we get none from them. It may seem like I'm criticizing but in reality I'm trying to keep reminding myself not to do what I am railing against so please, I hope no one views me as hypocritical or critical of others. Hopefully, if I embarrass myself publicly enough, I will tire of the taste of my foot!
Thanks again,
Nez
Frankly,
I have been in and out (partially) for almost a year now. At this point I have the most shares for the lowest price. I am accumulating more at these levels (<.0017) and as long as the management is at "Head Start" this week, I am hoping together with a great amount of negativity on the board and the lack of time to put together the "Blackout" killing PRs by management and Chris about all of the speculative subjects and even more, the pps will stay here or go lower as I believe when things like minority classification, AFs, different exchanges, excitement from "West Bend", speculation about mergers and the penultimate zinger, increased orders and possibly exceeding past projections of such, which all still exist. The eventuality of the pps making and/or exceeding a new 104 week high, IMO, is a given. As for me and mine, as long as folks keep it cheap, we will buy. All of this will happen as we just don't learn our lessons! Definately JMO!
JMO
Nez
HMMMMM,
I see a possible connection. Now if the accountant types, out there, could apply their talents to the examination of this one, we might get a better idea, if the unclear parallel between the two companies, which IMO, are sort of, kind of similar. If as the post says, they were to combine, would this be a good thing for ATWEC or a bad thing?
JMO and just wondering,
Nez
the site below is I BELIEVE for the company referred to in the post, NSCT. JMO. An excerpt from thier site:Travado IBUS(tm) combines the user's choice of digital video, GPS, Wi-Fi, cellular, and student tracking technologies into a comprehensive and cost effective solution for video recording on school buses. Travado IBUS(tm) allows schools to easily customize the technology to meet their bus security requirements today, while still allowing for future flexibility.
http://www.national-scientific.com/
I agree but if the "black out" continues, will we ever know if anything praise worthy happened during these events?
Will more silence and possibilities sustain the bump?
I hope so but after the past few months track record, I don't know.
JMO,
Nez