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Oh, sorry, thought he was a Fireman, but Policeman is just as good. I wanted to be a Md State Trooper myself, but the eyes were too bad.
I thought the 2000+ shareholders are the ones holding their certificates in their hands, or in the hands of their brokers, but actually listed in their names, not a street name. All of the street name accts are under one cert per brokerage, and they divide them out.
Called ST office, and they are checking which way it actually is. If it is one cert per broker for all streets, that would mean there are a lot more shareholders out there than 2000. Will post finding when ST calls back. GLTA LC
Looking, you just verified from the inside, what I put in an earlier post. The political connections of someone that didn't get a loan funded, for whatever reason, could have had a lot more to do with the DOJ cases than the facts did. People looking for these amounts of money all have connections with powerful people. One call from a politician, to an appointed prosecutor, with the request to have this looked into for a friend, and revenge is gotten against the company. I described a Nasdaq stock the was destroyed (it went from $35 to $7) on the charge of insider trading, only to have the case just be dissolved 14 months later. No explanation given. In that instance there was competition for government contracts involved. It could very easily be a case of revenge here. In HCPC we will just need to hold a little bit longer than we planned, I think. GLTA LC
I like your costume, but its gonna be warm. You should try and find one in fireproof material for your hubby to use for barbecuing. And take lots for pictures for his buddies at the FH.
LTDI shares are currently at .0001 in both ST accts. Mine did go to 0.00 one afternoon last week (both accts), but came back the next day. Never did hear an explanation. GLTY LC
Thndr65, Did you see my reply to you on post 81688. I did the reply on one of Heels' post by mistake. Unfortunately it is more common than anyone would believe. Prosecutors/states attorneys get credit for indictments generated, not just convictions won. All numbers translate into votes at election time. They don't even mention the conviction rate if it is too low.
In reading todays posts I also was concerned that the court date earned local tv coverage, just because it isn't good pr for the company. But thanks for the link, it's good to be informed.
Some of the posters left the impression they don't fully understand the restrains on the legal process involving past records of the accused. Past records are taboo from admission until after a conviction is found. It can then be used to determine sentencing. The judges refrain from reading about, or watching news articles that could come before their court. They have an obligation to be neutral on the case before them, and anything that has influenced them about someone's guilt, or innocence, will cause them to excuse themselves from that trial. They have the training, experience, and self discipline to know when to do that.
If it is a jury trial, an officer of the court, or the judge himself, will give a very detailed instruction to the whole prospective jury panel pool, about considerations, and/or reasons for exclusion from that panel. Additionally, before being seated on the panel, each juror will be asked individually if he, or she has any prior knowledge of the case, or has anything that could influence their objectivity, such as being a victim of a similar crime. That is why it takes so long to seat some panels.
Ed Johnson's past conviction will not be known to anyone on the jury panel, and will not be presented during trial. You had better not be seated on the panel knowing about the past conviction, and not saying anything to the court, or YOU will get the free meals as a guest of the Feds, and quicker than the Johnson's ever would. Point is, Ed's priors probably won't be admissible, mentionable, or involved in any way, or it can be deemed grounds for a mistrial.
I am not an officer in any court system, just past multiple jury panel experiences, grand and petit. GLTA LC
You act like she has already been found guilty. To demonstrate If you don't know what can actually happen in our court system, let me relate this actual case I was a juror on.
An indictment was issued after stolen property was recovered from the top of the china closet in the accused's house. Clearly the goods were in the person's house.
At the trial the defense pointed out that the china closet was in the common hallway that fed the doors of all of the the nine apartments in a house, where thirteen other people lived. No finger prints were taken at either location involved, so nothing additional tied the defendant to the crime.
I later talked to one of the GJ members, and they said the prosecutor's presentation of supporting circumstantial evidence (not admitted), and related projections by him, led them to go along with the prosecutor, and indict. Also, the majority didn't think a prosecutor would bring a charge if the person wasn't guilty.
The judge was not very happy. I could hear the chewing.
Very easily the same situation here.
What is scary is that that prosecutor is now a judge in the same courtroom.
Sorry Heels, this is in support of your post, just realized I typed it on the wrong post. Should have been a reply to thndr65. LC
What if the accusations prove to be bogus?
Heels, Thanks for the fill in. There are those of us that still have confidence in this company, we just don't say much on here.
I had one post deleted backing up the court case scenario you put forth. If you have ever been on a grand jury, then on a pettit jury, you can easily see the difference between the first groups indictment, and the latters' conviction. Totally one sided input to the first, asking for minimal indication of possible crime, and then having to prove it over and above the defense's case. BIG difference.
Gonna hold with you guys, and hope a completion of one of the projects in the mill will redeem our share price. I think the name & cusip changes would go a long way toward raising the share price, just by correcting the short problem.
One question. Everyone says the companies read the boards. If so, how could the idea of retiring shares held held by Cremel be a newbie to Carol? You, and others, have discussed it on here before, on multiple occasions I believe. Keep up the good work. And, Thanks again. GLTA LC
Capt, try 416-363-1240. I suggest you ask for Filomena. She is very helpfull.
Tom, glad you were so fortunate in that investment. I think most of us are probably in HCPC at points where we will need a significant recovery to break even, but it is encouraging to know that it does happen. I feel that it is likely to be next year, or later even, before that breakeven price shows up. If it does recover to that point, though, couldn't profitability actually follow? Dumping it now, at a huge loss, to get some chump change out doesn't seem to be the best return. I know it's a long shot gamble, but it doesn't cost any more to have it sitting there in the account than what we have already spent. GLTU LC
Mike, I think somebody posted it, but the link didn't work on their's. Your link worked, so thanks for the posting.
It's good to know we have other humans in the company that can talk about it with knowledge, and possibly run HCPC if things don't go well for the Johnsons. The future could be kinda like the way that guy Goddi ??? guy ran his Family business in New Jersey, while he retrained to learn the license plate manufacturing industry under a similar federal invitation. GLTA LC
No, I was referring to the read between the lines comments, and agreeing that we don't know what the actual numbers are. Just state them. Or Re-state them, if you like. Then all is crystal clear.
How much more trouble would it have been to just put the numbers in the letter, instead of posting "as listed on the website". Stating the numbers would have been crystal clear, to the point, with no BS about it, etc., (insert your own cliche). But, the point is, why go out of your way to put anything in the letter that will make you look like you are giving evasive answers, when your stated purpose in issuing the letter is to clear up investors questions? The correct numbers would have accomplished the correct intent.
TR, our prayers are with Anna, and your family, too. Are they testing/innoculating recent contacts, and family, or is that done with this infection? Hope all goes well. GLTY LC & S
Oxymorons; business ethics & political integrity
They could have done a lot on the regulation side that prevented this, but not on this watch, they are on the other side.
The attorney general can pull phone, and internet, records that will trace just about anything. Everything we do on hear, and by phone is digitalized, and that digitalization is on a computor chip somewhere in the network. All they need is a starting point, and they will be knocking at the door eventually. Cumberson yes, impossible, no. Look at the boards, and just retrace until you see the first mention of a negative line. Then start really looking at each one, going backwards.
Heard Coumo on a live CNN call in. He said that shorting was good. His emphasis was on the negative, false information put out to drive the sp down and thus make the shorting more profitable. Not a condemnation of shorting as strong as I would have liked to hear, at all.
On design number 2, where is bar-buoy, and where is beer cooler fastened?
If all of the good names have been used up on prior pattents, might I suggest "The Dumb Duck Blind". With it, do you use a gun, slingshot, or dipnet? Or none at all.
Is it legal in your state to swim up under the ducks, gator style, and pull them down by the feet? Snorkel style hunt.
Joe, beautiful job, can't wait to build my own. But do you have plans that are modified for those of us hunting in marshy areas? We need to use more naturally occurring blind materials to fool the more intelligent animals that live in the flat, highly human inhabited marshes. Something like a 30ft cabin cruiser, painted camo of course, instead of the squarish blind you used. Deck on air-floats maybe? Don't forget we will need bar buoys on the deck instead of standard tables to hold BCs without spill risks. Rod holders? Please email plans to .com, ASAP. Thanks LC
Seattle, a possibility I haven't seen mentioned yet.
Two pissed off customers filed complaints out of many applicants. If the process outlined in the contracts was followed, bcloc was run, and the ATTEMPT was made to broker the financing, they probably didn't have a case for civil court, even if it seemed that the fees charged were way too high. IMHO they were way too high. Spending $83,000, and getting nothing for it would piss anyone off.
So if we have no contractual breach clearcut enough for a winning civil suit, we could let the government do some repay damage for us. Wouldn't be the first time a call to a friendly politician resulted in an investigation being started by a second call being placed from the politician to someone at DOJ with an "I need you to look into this for me, for a friend". Just find anything, and do as much damage as possible. As has been mentioned, grand juries only hear one side of the argument, and it can be very slanted if the prosecutor needs it to be. Been there. Political debts can be a great incentive for little favors. Especially when there is no chance of retribution. After all, these are lawyers, and the whole process is taxpayer supported, too.
If that was what happened, the replacement of the Johnsons would get the heat away from the company now, but it will go away anyway when the case gets dropped without any explanation, as soon as enough damage is done. GLTA LC
If the same company is used at both locations, and is the supplier of dial tone, things can go soooo smoothly. Telco and vendor companies protect their own images first. Mix the venders, and each has something to gain by blaming the other for any delay in service transfer, even if caused intentionally themselves. Unless both locals are being maintained concurrently, or moving across town while keeping the same number, it isn't really that technically challenging a project, 90% is computer input anymore. Unfortunately, we won't be privie who is responsible for HCPC's phone transfer delay, and/or whether it was just a convient excuse used to deny calls got to the office at all.
weatherbill, I had a stock a few years ago, purchased on a recommendation and through a large broker (LM) agent, that did the belly up. It was very quick, after something was found to be amiss. We got the whole "class action suit" treatment; application, updates, documentation needed notices, etc. Jumped through all of the hoops as directed. The case took about a year to settle. Another company bought out the failed company's assets, and that money was put into an escrow account. The stock ceased to exist on the boards. Bills get paid first, then shareholders. The legal firm had nine or ten lawyers working on the class action suit, at $1050 per hour. They got every cent in the escrow account, and we got instructions on how to receive a plastic bag from WalMart, courtesy of our local brokerage agent.
Now in all fairness, I had 6500 shares (for about $3700), and I think he had over 30,000 shares, so he got screwed worse than I did.
If you think unreasonable risk is only here on pinkies, look at what they did to the stun gun maker a few years ago, with a fabricated FED investigation of insider trading. Didn't find anything, so Feds just dropped the investigation after over a year, with the company SP devistated ($37 down to $5). GLTY LC
We have been discussing it all night, lots of different possibilities, most not too nice for us. Unfortunitily, all we can do now is wait for some official word from the company, the courts, or the Feds. We can't sell, so it is just going to be a loooonnnggg next few days, or weeks. There is a good chance that the case would be won if it ever went to trial. If you ever sat on a pettit jury you would have seen some of the cases an earlier posted talked about. A good defense attorney can undo a lot of conjecture presented by the prosecutor. And I'm sure they had contracts covering what they were obligated to provide(software developed package), and what they hoped to provide for the customer(funding). Therein will lie the difference. Trouble is, it takes time to get through the court system.
Don't know about RELM, up until today I was kicking myself for not getting any of it when it was cheap, kinda glad I didn't find that extra money now. Probably the whole group will either survive together, or sink together, IMO.
Start by reading post 79924.
How do you punish people with their type of qualifications? Their respected community status. What fits? These are professional numbers people, highly trained in their fields. Make receipt of food and other privileges dependent on the correct addition of several hundred thousand computer generated combinations of only the numbers 1, 2,& 3. Change the combinations each day, or maybe not, but make them do eight hard hours of math of the lowest level addition each, and every day. Twenty years for each conviction count. Oh, and deny any visits to the head doctor without documented babbling.
Yes, it would be nice if they do allow them to see each other, hopefully through some very thick, sounproof, unclear glass.
Cash, sorry about the possible $$$ loss for us all, and I know you have more to loose than most of us. Also, you put a lot of effort into research on this over the last year, so, besides the money, you have the addition of the emotional let down that comes with having that research possibly invalidated by someone else's actions.
Could Harman & friends move to take over HCPC? They have a large share interest here, and are major business successes themselves. Replacement of the Johnsons with reliable management from their contacts could preserve their investment, and ours too. It could take a substantial amount of time, and probable changes of potential funding sources to make HCPC successful, but it is possible. The closing any of the deals could still be profitable. Just a thought. As someone else posted, the Johnsons were indicted, not HCPC.
Warning: We optimists always have a glass that is half full. GLTA LC
gail, what JT & I agree on is that Orlando COULD release information that would NOT jeopardize any deals in the works, but would give out encouraging information about the ongoing events at the company. Case in point; the upcoming boatshow (from a phone call) where LTDI isn't on the exhibitors list, but someone on the board found, through DD, and posted a connection with them under another dealer's listing. What would have been wrong with informing the investors of that plan, and connection? Other shows? Case 2: PR could include info about the planned trip to China, then add "still on" to it on the next status PR. It could be considered distributing fluff, but in the absence of hard facts, I would rather be told the less dramatic things, than nothing. I know it would then bring an onslaught of speculative posts on the board, but thats good, isn't it. Generates discussion. As long as the posters don't get too demanding for more details, via phone, and emails directly to the company. Lack of courtesy, consideration, will get us nothing but silence. GLTY LC
JT, I agree. In this format, all DD results should be allowed to be posted for the other investors to read, evaluate, and use for their investment decision as they see fit. The responsibility also lies with each of us to respect the differences we have in viewing those same bits of information, because if a posting results in an immediate stomping on the board, ALL posters might be less inclined to post further discoveries. That could deprive someone else of the last bit of info needed for them to make a decision. When a stock is dormant, such as LTDI is now, the wait can be agonizing, so any discussion will at least keep the investors looking in. The problem lies in developing creative ways to discuss the same stale tidbits of information, and views.
If legal council HAS gagged all parties, then I think the company COULD issue generally worded monthly PRs stating what is the current status of talks on buyout, Honda contract, or share structure. They could be given in such general terms such as "ongoing", "terminated", "unchanged", etc., without violating those directives. I know people would scream, but they are anyway. At least we would know someone is alive at the office.
Oh, good pickup on hidden point,(apparently the analogy was too far out for some to get), but don't you think that those that are overly offensive to their fellow posters could also be candidates of insect status, and iggied? Without involving Miss Manners, of course. GLTY LC
Argument well stated Renee. I agree, longs will be happy. IMO of course. GLTA & patience is the word. LC
Bluespirate, we might be able to forgive you, although I was about to throw myself off of the back step if the PR didn't materialize. Promises of PRs are viewed equal to the sign in the bar that states "Free Beer Tomorrow". We just have to keep coming back and hoping. Even if this company takes until next summer to get back to $.15 most of those that bought in on the July buy out hype will get a nice return on their money. GLTY LC
Wehrsy, product placement in the small local grocery store is not a walk in privilege. First, the store has to be convinced that your product will OUTSELL something already on their shelf. As you know, placement IS sometimes accomplished by customer request, but it's usually an already well known item. The small store might give a new product a small slot somewhere in the back, or a corner, but its not going to be a prime spot until you prove your sales power(catch 22). Some do get temporary end cap displays, but again, it's usually the hot, seasonal, items there. What about the sales army needed.
The large chains charge the product company a healthy fee for their shelf space placement privilege. We would call it blackmail, but the companies just look at it as the cost of doing business, and pass the cost on to the customer. The cost can be steep until you get popular enough that the store, or chain, needs you to compete (think brand names like Campbells soup), then the fee can get more reasonable, or go away completely. The problem is that the store has to gamble that it can match, or exceed the earning potential of the item it replaces.
The other factor against you in the GS is the type of shopping attitude of the customer; NOT an impulse buyer, list in hand, budget to the forefront of the mind, blinders on to anything but their choice items. They know exactly what they want, and where it is. If you are in the corner, they won't even know you are in the store. If we are in the lineup with the brand name products, what will make them pick up, and try, our product first?
The 24 hour gas station/corner convenience store, visited by the impatient for those quick needs, like bread, milk, and beer, gives a much better chance of the product being seen by the impulse buyer simply because of the smaller amount of competing items.
In the big store market I would think we would have a better sales opportunity with stores like Lowes, Home Depot, or ACE Hardware, and of course WALMART. But those stores could have placement fees also, I don't know about them. GLTA LC
kdswing, nice post.
I spent some time reading in that book, and plan to go back for some more. I especially liked his recommendation to shoot the heaviest bow you can handle comfortably, and accurately. On the shots that are challenging penetration angles, the extra power coupled with heavier arrow weight, can mean the difference of getting a kill that you collect, or one that gets lost.
I think that all we need here is a virtual campfire, and we could swap tales all night. Hunting stories would fill the air.
Good luck afield. LC
SIX, nice V pic.
I am assuming you have some new archers that view here, so do you also have the views (or a link to) of shot placements on deer that they are actually likely to see from the tree stand? Views from 10 to 20 feet off of the ground, with the deer at 11 to 20 yds from the tree base. I don't know where to find those pictures, except in my head, and they are imbedded in my second/other brain cell, and you can't have that.
Most practicing on the level full body type pictures, or dots on plain targets, will give you excellent shot placement skills, but leave you guessing when the buck is under the stand. It's a whole different view. The heart/lung shot placement on the level is a skin down the outside of the ribs from 20 feet up.
You don't need expensive 3-d targets to get used to shooting into something three dimensional, like a deer. You also don't need to shoot a lot of arrows to see where the difference is in aiming, either. I used to shoot off of my roof down into a large pampers diaper box, using the chimney to simulate the tree, and changing sides to simulate the deer coming from different angles. I did it three or four times before going into the field. I learned to pick the spot I wanted, and put the arrow in that spot. It also covered the difference in angle & drop, although I didn't see that much difference at the close ranges when I switched to a flat shooting compound.
Shot placement skill & easy range limit test. Using a small paper plate (desert size), don't shoot any distance further than you can hold six out of six in that plate. Place a quarter size dot on the plate to shoot at instead of the whole plate. You'll end up concentrating on the dot more than the plate.
BTW, I bookmarked your Larry Wise link, Thanks. Good Luck on your hunt. LC
Renee, nice posts.
The problem for both sides of the argument is that, as usual, there are possibilities of either being correct in the end, and we don't have the concrete info to back up either position.
In July, in the offer notice PR, it was stated that there would be no more PRs until after the deal was either completed, or off of the table. That covers the lack of news on the buy out, but not the Honda deal, or current sales projections. Reasonably, the Honda deal could be hinged on the result of the buy out, and thus be on hold until it completes.
On the other side, why no sales/production figures, either concrete, or estimates. Past general pinky history points us toward the "take the money & run" scenario.
I guess it boils down to which you have the most faith in at this time. I agree with your line of reasoning. Thanks for stating the positive view so well. GLTA LC
Mine are still in both ST accounts.