Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
My $GILD estimates:
Spent more time on alternatives:
Rough numbers based on possible sale numbers of Sovaldi:
$8B - $6.00/sh+
$10B - $7.00/sh+
$12B - $8.00/sh+
$15B - $9.50/sh+
$20B - $12.00/sh+
Since I am now looking for $10-12B (which has been moving up every week), I am still looking for $7-8.00 earnings. At a p/e of 20, it would be a price of 140-160.
My worst case is $8B and $6.00/sh with a 12 p/e (no growth, but not a big decline), so a price of $72.
Obviously, there is a better case too, but that seems "too-good-to-be-true." Of course, my base case would have seemed the same 6 weeks ago,
Some other sell side projections for GILD total sales, HIV (and HCV):
Credit Suisse (from 02/10 increase of sale and earnings)-
Total GILD sales for 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017:
$15.988B, $20.548B, $23.728B, $24,851
HIV sales est. for same: $9.923B, $10.568B, $11.245B, $11.395B
HCV sales est.: $3.925B, $7.893B, $10.350B, $11.333B
Earnings per share: $3.56, $5.65, $7.09, $7.91
Goldman Sachs (from 02/06 - no update on sales and earnings estimates, and no breakout of HIV):
Total sales for same periods: $14.455B, $18.444B, $21.936B, $24.426
HCV sales est.: $3.146B, $6.631B, $9.902B, $12.059B
Non-HCV sales est.: $11.409B, $11.813B, $12.038B, $12.367B
Earnings per share: $3.17, $4.92, $6.33, $7.67
Just more info for the computer. I wonder when the numbers will actually change. As you can see, Wells was already much higher than the others, which are under $4B for Sovaldi for '14. We shall see.
Thanks.
Interesting theories. Of course they go contra to everything the analysts, GILD/ABBV, and doctors have been saying about market size and durability. If correct, your theories would say ENTA is way overvalued since ABBV sales should be minute.
You had previously thought TRx would come down in Q3. Still think that? From what level? 8,000/wk, 10,000, higher? The higher that NRx go the high the TRx will be. Doesn't seem to be much slowing yet. The analysts have been quite wrong - much too conservative. Maybe it is just a huge warehouse that is stealing from next generation too. The market seem to be saying that. I'm still willing to wait and see, being long GILD and ENTA.
Quote:
At the risk of repeating myself, there is no evidence that anything has fundamentally changed in this market vs. what was seen with previous launches. The higher they rise, the harder they fall.
Please expand. Reason for fall: bad drug, small market, competition, no reimbursement, political issues, others?
So far, this start seems very different from prior launches but I understand that I may have blinders on.
Wells has not officially changed anything. Set price target at 92-96 on 02/05 after earnings. Same with earnings projection of $4.72 for '14 earnings. They have not officially adjusted sales or earnings projections. The $4.72/sh was based on $5.5B of sales for HCV drugs in '14 (much higher than most estimates). It has HCV drugs over $8B in '16 and earnings at $6.74 and HCV over $10B in '18 and earnings at $7.81. Of course there are many other issues since non-HCV drugs go from $12.5B to $14.6B to $13.9B over same periods.
Me - sure, I am upping my expectation every week. If sales are over $8B, I would expect earnings over $6.50/sh, up from $2.04/sh in '13. If sales over $10B, $8/sh looks possible. And with sales at $15B, $12+/sh is possible. Since I think that $8/sh is pretty conservative, it allow for significantly more growth in next couple years, I am comfortable with a 20 p/e, or $160/sh. If we do get the $12+/sh, more growth is a lot less certain, and the p/e might go down to Biomaven's 15, but that still is $180/sh.
JMO. Others should voice their opinion. And yes, I did buy more today. Getting to a "SEPR" sized position.
From Wells this week:
GILD - this week's scripts: 4114 NRx (up from 3434); 6398 TRx
(up from 5291)
From last week's Wells report:
So my comments on the article:
1) Primary point is excess cost for system for the new drug. Seems short sighted given the cost of prior treatments and the fact that this probably a cure. So real issue is that too many people will actually get treated this year and insurance companies didn't plan for cost of additional treatments. May be very true, but shouldn't apply across the board. Cost of drug issuance will probably go up a lot next year, and many years in the future. Of course, the worse case situation for investors is some kind of price control, which seems almost impossible, but, if the costs (~$20B+/yr in '16-'17) are deemed "too high," I guess it is possible.
2) Insurance companies that hope that competition will bring down the cost are of new drug are surely not listening to what ABBV has been saying. Who really knows what will happen in the market place, but seems a little unlikely that there will be a huge difference (though several here have suggested that ABBV may have to compete on price more than they would like due to other issues).
3) Inference is that the insurance companies are talking about GT1 patients which would support the position that GILD sales are still for many more GT1 patients than originally thought would be the case. Even though there are many more GT1 patients, the more that are treated by the current drug, the less there will be for the next set of drugs. Education/advertising to identify more patients becomes more important.
Goldman on ABBV - from Wed,:
GILD - this week's scripts (a partial holiday week):
NBIX announces offering:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/neurocrine-biosciences-inc-announces-proposed-210000933.html
Stock up on news. Guess I am one that thinks that positive stock movement on secondary is good sign for company and stock.
From Goldman yesterday:
Biotech bubble - Don't really agree with some of the observations, but interesting charts (should be log, but aren't):
http://www.seeitmarket.com/bioshock-talk-biotech-bubble-solid-ground-16023/
GILD -again.
The script numbers continue to be huge.
GILD - I am assuming others are watching the script numbers too.
Since it looks like the likely sales of the current product are 150-300% higher than projections (saw a $9B+ run rate number this morning), how will that affect the later product of GILD (and the ABBV/ENTA product)? I am surprised that the market has not rewarded GILD more now. My best guess is that future sales were already priced in and current sales are viewed as stealing from future sales. Or they think there will be a big decline soon (which sure doesn't seem likely). Others views?
Under the market inefficiency theory, I have been adding a lot of GILD. Now larger than my ENTA position, but still much smaller than a major overweight where MNTA still is, which is smaller than the SEPR position from yesteryear.
JMO.
GILD files for approval:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gilead-files-u-approval-ledipasvir-210500855.html
My deleted post on the PPHM board last night responding to a DD post that was also deleted:
GILD - any bets on earnings or guidance? It is the guidance that should drive the stock. Usually very conservative. I placed a bet on Friday's 80 calls (as well as selling 78 puts). Unusual that I play the buy side. Should be interesting.
From Barron's online:
"5 New Drugs That Could Be Blockbusters in 2014"
"Five Drugs to Watch
Drug Companies What It Treats 2020 Sales (est.) Stock **
Performance
idelalisib Gilead Sciences leukemia and NHL $2.5 billion 113.70%
RLX030 Novartis acute heart failure $1 billion 26%
Sovaldi/ledipasvir Gilead Sciences hepatitis C $9-$10 billion* 113.70%
nivolumab Bristol-Myers Squibb lung cancer $8 billion 59.20%
palbociclib Pfizer breast cancer $5.5 billion 20.20%
*Sales estimates for the hepatitis C combo pill are for 2017.
**Total return over the past 12 months."
Has description of each drug. Pretty big numbers for GILD's HCV and BMY's lung cancer.
From Barron's:
NBIX
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/neurocrine-announces-positive-results-vmat2-210100826.html
[OT] - Efficient markets - Dimensional Advisors in Barron's
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424053111904742804579284652021894432.html?mod=BOL_twm_ls#
In part:
Long negative article on Plum Creek in Barrons:
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424053111904399004579270381917765424.html?mod=BOL_twm_fs
"Plum Creek Shares Could Drop 20%
By SANDRA WARD | MORE ARTICLES BY AUTHOR
Plum Creek Timber offers a 4% dividend. But its shares are rich and it's scrambling to fund its payout."
NPR on HCV pricing. Interesting political issues.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/12/30/256885858/-1-000-pill-for-hepatitis-c-spurs-debate-over-drug-prices
Can be read many ways. As a GILD (or ENTA or ABBV) shareholder, I think the take away is that these will be very profitable drugs. As a medicare payor/participant, I would wonder where it all ends.
Comments from others?