George okay. We might not agree on what we call them but we do agree on what they do to stocks. The worse offense of insider trading is done by market makers. ON RANF, or any OTC. We put people in jail for it but not them. They front run their own trades every day and not supposed to. Rules are only as good as they are enforced. Sec just doesn't enforce much when it comes to market makers. They even allow them make up shares and sell them naked shorting. Unbelievable in the age we are in they get to sell couterfeit shares and Sec is okay with it. The reason they have this was given to them after 1929 crash when we traded paper. That reason has long ago not been valid anymore but still they can do it.