Replies to post #197700 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[StephanieVanbryce]

More young Syrians disillusioned by the revolution

Many educated, middle-class Syrians who had embraced the opposition now feel alienated
by its drift toward extremism — and are aligned with neither side.


A resident looks at a destroyed home in Aleppo, Syria. The ongoing violence has left some Syrians feeling
walled in by the two opposing sides in the conflict. (Andoni Lubaki / Associated Press / January 3, 2013)

By Ned Parker and Alaa Hassan, Los Angeles Times
January 20, 2013, 6:19 p.m

BEIRUT — It was on a bus ride home from college that Ahmed lost his faith in the Syrian revolution.

The trip was long, about 400 miles across the desert from Damascus. As Ahmed swayed in his seat next to another man, the bus slowed and then stopped. Ahmed looked out the window. There were about 50 black-clad militiamen at a checkpoint, rebel fighters whose cause he had passionately supported.

Several entered the bus, gripping their rifles. They told the women on board, some without head coverings, to hide their faces. They told the men to take out their IDs and fold their hands behind their heads.

"We won't joke about this anymore," one warned. "This time, it's not a problem, but next time, women should cover their hair and behave like good Muslims."

Until that moment, Ahmed, a journalism student at Damascus University, had believed in the revolution. But as he watched the rebel soldiers, he saw his dreams of a democratic Syria being hijacked by extremists.

For Ahmed, at least for now, the revolution was over.

Many Syrian young people have followed a similar path in recent months. Excitement about the uprising that began in the spring of 2011 has turned to skepticism and fear as violence has grown and opposition militias, some funded by foreign extremists, have become increasingly influenced by Islamic fundamentalism.

As much as they may hate the violent, repressive regime of President Bashar Assad, these young people — largely educated and middle class — are horrified by the opposition's alliances with radical groups such as Al Nusra Front, which has ties to Al Qaeda.

They, along with many of their elders among Syria's educated urban class, feel caught between two unacceptable extremes. The opposition movement once offered hope of a more democratic future. Now, in much the same way that many "Arab Spring" sympathizers in Egypt feel betrayed by their revolution, many Syrians worry that they could be trading one repressive regime for another.

"We won't be with the regime, but neither are we with the opposition," said Ahmed. Like other Syrians in this article, he was interviewed from Damascus, the capital, through an Internet audio connection and asked not to be identified by his last name for fear of retribution.

"People like me are still here," he said, "but who listens to the voice of reason when guns are shooting all the time?"

Many Syrians still support the uprising, and some welcome the shift toward religious fundamentalism. Activists close to the opposition's umbrella military group, the Free Syrian Army, reject the notion that the population is losing faith in the revolution.

"The regime kills more people, so the people support the FSA," activist spokesman Abu Hamza said by phone from Dariya, a contested Damascus suburb.

But the malaise of young people like Ahmed appears to be growing among the people Syria most needs if it is ever to rebuild a prosperous, dynamic society.

"Many don't know who they hate most, the opposition or regime, because neither is offering a way forward. As they see it, they are both part of a system producing an absurd level of violence and destruction," said Peter Harling, an analyst for the International Crisis Group. "A lot of people have paid a price and are not sure what it is for anymore."

That is certainly the case for a woman named Sharihan, who is in her mid-20s and moved to Damascus from the port city of Latakia. Like the majority of Syrians, she belongs to the Sunni branch of Islam, and her family leans toward religious fundamentalism. But Sharihan and her brother stood apart; they believed in a more moderate, secular Syria.

Both of them basked in the atmosphere of the demonstrations that swept across Syria in the spring of 2011. But late that year, her brother was seized by authorities and held for three weeks. When he was released, he had changed.

According to Sharihan, he had been brutalized while in detention, subjected to torture and humiliation. He took to the mountains and joined a rebel battalion.

She was in Damascus when she received the phone call saying her brother had died in combat. She screamed, then broke down in tears, cursing anyone she could think of for what had happened to him — including others in her family who encouraged him to take up arms.

"My brother was the most open-minded one among them and became the most radical," she said. "He was pro-human rights and freedom, and at the same time he was the one to actually put his life at risk for his cause."

Sharihan wonders whether the new Syria has a place for her. "I am against the opposition; it's very clear why," she said. "I'm not with anyone."

Assad has banked on the exhaustion of his fellow Syrians as a strategy to stay in power. In a televised address to Syrians this month, he presented himself as the only leader capable of restoring order to the country, contrasting himself favorably with armed Islamist groups participating in the war against his government.

He seemed to be appealing to educated Syrians when he said: "They call it a revolution when it has no relationship to a revolution. A revolution needs intellectuals and is based on thought. Where is the thinker?"

Whether for or against the regime, no one in Syria is content with the status quo. Some cling to a fraying hope in the opposition; others flit back and forth for signs from either Assad or the rebels that the war will end. But the violence worsens daily.

Some Syrians still hope that a spirit of civil society that emerged in the first year of the uprising has been silenced only temporarily, and that those who risked their lives in largely peaceful disobedience will reassert themselves when the fighting finally stops. Syrians, these people believe, have given too much to see their country destroyed by warlords or strongmen.

"But for now," said Harling, "the extremists hold them hostage."

Roula is 29, a member of the minority Ismaili sect of Shiite Islam but agnostic. She attends a university and distributes relief aid — including food, blankets and medicine — in Damascus.

Roula said she joined the demonstrations in the spring of 2011 full of optimism, ready to risk everything for freedom.

"It was dangerous," she said, but she figured there was strength in numbers. "If there were many of us in the same place shouting the same things, we could protect each other," she recalled thinking.

By the middle of last year, she had seen a change in the tenor of the protests. Gone was the moderation; gone was any sense that change could come peacefully. Now there were chants supporting the creation of an Islamic state.

"I don't think it's the fault of the protesters," Roula said. "They are under pressure and it is temporary." Anyway, she said, "extremism is always met by extremism."

But for now, she does not feel as if she belongs. "I am against the regime," she said, "but not part of the opposition."

Walid, a 30-year-old rock and blues pianist, represents the Syrians who were thrilled by the movement in its beginning, but never got involved. Now he feels walled in on all sides.

Walid's family had to abandon its house, in a battle zone, and he was forced to leave behind his beloved piano. Now, depressed and living in an apartment in Damascus, he fears his technique is deteriorating. He has fallen into a listless gloom.

"I wake up in the afternoon, eat, use the Internet for a while, get miserable, get stoned and sleep while watching something fun," he said.

At times, he wanted to be excited by the revolution; at times, he found himself hoping that Assad could pull the country together. But in the end, the violence of both sides repelled him.

"Someone would do something stupid in the revolution that would make me hate it," he said. "And then I would see what the regime is doing, so I changed back to being with the revolution. Later I turned against them both."

The war has cost him friendships with people on both sides. He hates the idea of "ruining a good friendship over politics." He hates what has already been lost.

"What affected me the most is the sorrow over things that won't come back," he said. "I don't really care if I die or not, but if I live, I will be a stranger. Maybe I have always been, but I feel we'll never come back to how we were."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-fg-syria-mood-20130121,0,2560530,full.story

Incredibly sad, I guess at this point .. IF I lived there I would accept Assad back. .. I know, that's horrible ... BUT, at least he didn't have the 'religious' police marching around making their rules ... that the people hate. At worst, I can imagine that Assad leaves and then the true 'Syrian rebels' will have to fight the 'extremists' to get them OUT of their country. it's just a real heartbreaker...

[F6]

fuagf -- and again the worm turns -- we created Al Qaeda in Iraq -- just as previously we'd (going back to Zbig and Carter) created Al Qaeda ([linked in] http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=73858227 and preceding and following, http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=82327444 and preceding and following)

[fuagf]

Abu Qatada - A Misguided, Bloodthirsty Takfiri

Posted by Admin, Senior Editor in Articles

Abu Qatada's real name is Umar bin Mahmood Abu Umar the Jordanian and he is known as Abu Qatada the Palestinian (from the point of view of his origin from Palestine).

This individual has a hand in much of the blood that has been shed in the Islamic world - and the Islamic world alone. This individual beautifies his actions in the name of the religion, however he does not do that openly. It is done by indirect means.

He went to the Afghani jihad but only caught its back end and with the ideology of takfir on his table cloth, he sought refuge in London where he found shade, a refuge and place to speak openly. He managed to obtain political asylum, and thus having found his lost haven began in earnest with his tragedies.

It is extremely unfortunate that Britain accommodated him and his likes, preparing for them a repose from which to spread their poison of takfir into the Muslim lands. Indeed, it was from Britain that he mobilised his pashas in the Muslim lands to perform takfir and bombings. In addition to Abu Qatada we have the likes of Muhammad al-Mis'aree, Sa'd al-Faqih and other dissidents whose extremist methodologies are not unknown to the well-informed.

The likes of Abu Qatada are not interested except in killing Muslims whom they deem apostates - that is their primary goal, a matter not well documented in Western academic circles. For the base ideology of these people is that of the Kharijites, those who excommunicate whole Muslim societies on account of the absence of total Shari'ah rule in their lands, and due to their being ruled by rulers they see as corrupt and tyrannical, and due to the presence of major sins in the society. This ideology is the starting point of terrorism carried out by Muslims in the name of Islam. This terrorism is directed first and foremost towards Muslim societies and is not something that emerged primarily in response to non-Muslims or in non-Muslim lands.

Abu Qatada has wreaked more havoc and caused more bloodshed in the Muslim lands, such as Algeria and Saudi Arabia and elsewhere than in the West in its entirety. For he has been taken as a spiritual guide and a political leader to the ignorant fools in the Muslim lands, who are like-minded in their thirst for blood. Unfortunately, the likes of Abu Qatada use highly emotive political issues such as Palestine in order to whip up support and bolster loyalty to themselves - using that to insidiously promote their own barbaric ideologies and tendencies.

Abu Qatada said in his interview with the Hayat newspaper (19th May, 1999):

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We do not desire to fight America unless it attacks us, and begins the fight first. This is different to the fight against the apostate regimes in our lands, those against whom jihad is an individual obligation upon every single Muslim.
---

This is the ideology of takfir, the excommunication of governments, and then by extension whole societies that was given a fresh revival in the works of Sayyid Qutb [ see below ], the root of all contemporary takfiri and jihadi groups. This then leads to the justification of the killing of innocent men, women and children.

It is important to note that according to these people, Muslims whom they deem apostate are worse than non-Muslims, for this reason, they often express, like Abu Qatada has, that priority should be given in removing them.

In the book titled, "Clearing the Servants From The Barbarity of Abu Qatada Who Calls For the Killing of Women and Children" the author documents from Abu Qatada with direct quotations the following matters:

* His takfir (excommunication) of all of the Muslim rulers (p. 55)
* His excommunication of every individual soldier in the Algerian military (p. 62)
* His revilement of the major scholars of Saudi Arabia (p. 147)
* His fatwa permitting the killing of the preachers and scholars (p. 151)
* His fatwa permitting the killing of women and children in Algeria (p. 205)
* His revilement of some of the companions of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), using that in order to commend the Algerian revolution (p. 299)

[ hmm, some for the 'end time' religiously orientated prophet minded people .. original emphasis ]

The condemnation of the Kharijites is well documented in the statements of Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam), as is related in the collection of al-Bukhari (no. 6930):

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There will appear at the end of time a people who are young in age, of foolish minds and who will speak (with what appears to be) the best speech of creation. Their faith will not go beyond their throats. They will leave the religion as an arrow passes through the game animal. So kill them wherever you come across them, for verily in their killing is a reward on the Day of Judgement for whoever killed them.
---

And the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), also stated about them that:

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They are the worst of creation
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And:
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If I was to reach them, I would slaughter them like the slaughtering of Aad
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And he said of the Kharijites:

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They are the dogs of Hellfire.
---

These are all well-documented and authenticated statements of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam).

Indeed, the likes of Abu Qatada consider the Muslims they excommunicate to be more severe disbelievers and enemies of Allah, than non-Muslims themselves. Abu Qataada stated, whilst boasting and praising his own jamaa'ah (group of followers) that:

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... they do not see any difference between the police force of (Yasser) Arafat, under the leadership of Arafat and between the Jewish army and police force, except one: that Araft and his government are more severe in their disbelief than them ...
---

Refer to the aforementioned book for documentation of this and numerous other statements of Abu Qatada.

This trait is not unique to Abu Qatada, rather it is a trait of all contemporary neo-Kharijites - may Allah disfigure them. This ideology is echoed by Aiman az-Zawahiri. Muntasir az-Zayyat describes in his book "The Path to al-Qaida" some elements of this ideology of az-Zawahiri, stating:

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For a long time az-Zawahiri repeated that the only form acceptable for jihad is armed combat, and that it is upon the truthful Muslim to address the internal disbelief - the near enemy - and to address the external disbelief - the distant enemy - thereafter. And az-Zawahiri emphasized his ideology concerning jihad against the near (internal) enemy before the external enemy in a piece that he wrote in the April 1995 issue of "al-Mujahidun" magazine, entitled, "The Path to al-Quds Passes Through Cairo". He said therein, "Al-Quds will not be conquered or settled, except when the battle in Egypt and Algeria is settled, and until Cairo is conquered". The fundamental ideology that beseeched az-Zawahiri was his consideration that the fundamental, foremost enemy was the political structure (in the Muslim lands) because it did not judge by what Allah had revealed.
---

Abu Qatada played a significant role in the 90s in the killing of countless Algerian, men, women and children, by way of his "spiritual guidance" to those who shared his evil ideology, and his subterfuge continued well into the next decade.

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com/articles/bqael-abu-qatada---a-misguided-bloodthirsty-takfiri.cfm

See also:

Fundamentalism is not conservative. Rather, it is highly innovative -- even heretical -- because it always develops in response to a perceived crisis. In their anxiety, some fundamentalists distort the tradition they are trying to defend. The Pakistani ideologue Abu Ala Maududi (1903-1979) was the first major Muslim thinker to make jihad, signifying “holy war” instead of the traditional meaning of “struggle” or “striving” for self-betterment, a central Islamic duty. Both he and the influential Egyptian thinker Sayyid Qutb (1906-1966) were fully aware that this was extremely controversial but believed it was justified by Western imperialism and the secularizing policies of rulers such as Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser.

All fundamentalism -- whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim -- is rooted in a profound fear of annihilation. Qutb developed his ideology in the concentration camps where Nasser interred thousands of the Muslim Brothers. History shows that when these groups are attacked, militarily or verbally, they almost invariably become more extreme.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=42952449

It is not the Quran or Sayyid Qutb - who is in absentia charged with perpetrating 9/11 despite being dead since 1966 - Western security experts should worry about. They should perhaps purchase Das Kapital and bond with Karl Marx to get a reality check, a rethink, a dose of sobriety in a post-9/11 world afflicted by over-securitisation.

From Tunisia and Algeria in the Maghreb to Jordan and Egypt in the Arab east, the real terror that eats at self-worth, sabotages community and communal rites of passage, including marriage, is the terror of socio-economic marginalisation.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=59413782

ISIS's vision of Muslim life is pretty alien to actual Islamic tradition. Fundamentalist Islam — like most religious fundamentalisms — is a modern phenomenon. Fundamentalist groups, frustrated with modern politics, harken back to an idealized Islamic past that never actually existed. The al-Qaeda strain of violent radicalism owes more to 20th century writers like Egyptian Muslim Brother Sayyid Qutb than the actual post-Muhammed caliphate.

So if Sunnis disagree with ISIS' theology and don't like living under its rule, why do some of them seem to support ISIS? It's all about politics. Both Syria and Iraq have Shia governments. Sunni Muslims aren't well-represented in either system, and are often actively repressed. Legitimate dissent is often met with violence: Bashar al-Assad gunned down protesters in the streets during the 2011 Arab Spring demonstrations, and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki reacted violently a 2013 Sunni protest movement as well.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=105589081

President Obama Speaks at the National Prayer Breakfast
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=110921518

roughly 40% down in there is this one

‘The Crusades Were Great, Actually!’ .. again a bit ..

To be sure, radical Islamists have their own distortions of the Crusades. ISIS calls all American and European soldiers “Crusaders.” Sayyid Qutb’s iteration of “Crusaderism” (sulubiyya) is foundational to radical Islamism. Contrary to conservative rhetoric [id.], however, no one in the West is really arguing that Muslims are justified in taking revenge on the Crusaders, or that radical Islamism is a reasonable reaction to the events of a millennium ago. That’s not the point.

The point is that whitewashing of one of the most bloody periods in world history is troubling on many levels. First, it is a radical failure to ‘own’ one’s own troubling history—like the same conservatives’ claims that slavery wasn’t really so bad [ http://www.economist.com/news/books/21615864-how-slaves-built-american-capitalism-blood-cotton ] and that the Inquisition, too, was sort of a good idea. It brings to mind Santayana’s overused quote that those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it. But it’s even worse than that: This sort of revisionism tries to cover up the past and pretend it never happened.

Second, what’s the lesson here? That if Muslims attack Christians, a massive war effort that kills 1% of the world population and massacres innocents is an appropriate response? That Christians are just better people than Muslims, a la the “Clash of Civilizations?” That Christian power is the only kind of power that can’t ever be abused? None of these conclusions is defensible, or even morally tolerable.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/10/the-crusades-were-great-actually.html

===

Muslim attitudes towards terrorism .. bits ..

Muslim diversity

National, political and religious variations highlight stark differences and multiple identities among Muslims. The Sunnis, who account for over 80% of Muslims, have over centuries fragmented into three clear strands - the Political, Missionary and Jihad movements who possess individual characteristics and vary in global view. It is only the Jihadists however that pursue and promote an armed Islamic struggle, which led by the mujahideen can occur in an internal, irredentist or global capacity.

[...]

Contrary to common image, many Muslims have spoken out against 9/11, and against terrorist attacks in general.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_attitudes_towards_terrorism

YES .. for sure .. 100% .. just as many Christians have spoken out against Christian fundamentalism .. hmm,
most all of these are linked in F6's "President Obama Speaks at the National Prayer Breakfast" above

Army's "Spiritual Fitness" Test Comes Under Fire
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=58462365

How evangelicals are making children their missionaries in public schools
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=79941103

“I think you have to be very, very careful about keeping religion and politics separate,” Kerrey said.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=82368351

Tomas de Torquemada in the U.S. armed forces
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=88125188

Right Wing Christians Build Ties To Vladimir Putin's Inner Circle
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=107571079

Backward Christian soldiers
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=45592650 .. 2010.

.. to all fundies wherever you dwell .. forget the prophetic end times, eh .. here and now, for too many, you
are creating your holy hell .. and seriously, the God idea did originate on earth .. yeah? .. yeah .. for sure .. :)