Replies to post #6517 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[mlsoft]

Zeev...

Both arguments are made by the pro-life movement and if they are correct that "life (ensoulment) begins at conception" is correct, I would agree with them in both arguments. Of course that still does not solve the question of what to do when a choice has to be made between the life of the mother or that of the unborn. Fortunately, that is a relatively rare occurrence, but I would tend to favor saving the mother.

The entire question for me is "when does the fetus become a person" which would be the time that God ensouled it (in my thinking, anyway.) The pro-life movement argues that it always occurs at conception, but I find the scriptural evidence for that to be inconclusive even though a lot of people who I respect very much (and who have spent for more of their lives studying the Bible than I) agree with that position. Because I am unsure, I prefer the more conservative idea of being against all abortions except to save the life of the mother.

mlsoft

[sarai]

Zeev, another personal story.... Several years back and much earlier in the Roe v. Wade history, I happened upon the abortion debate with a elderly, former physician, and now deceased, neighbor.....

In the course of conversation, he asked, "do you think abortion began in 1973?. "Do you think safe abortions were not available prior to 1973?"....

He said, "abortion is as old as the Bible itself. It has always been around. Women who had the means to pay were able to obtain safe procedures, often in hospital settings. They were admitted as 'incomplete ab' (miscarriage) and termination of pregnancy was performed in hospitals. The procedure for termination (abortion) and incomplete ab (miscarriage) are exactly the same, or very, very similar. For kids and poor women, they went to 'back ally' providers"....

He said, "if you can not control (or stop) the procedure, you have to regulate it.".... The reality is, that if you can not stop people from having the procedure, you have to regulate it from a public health standpoint. It's a different position on the abortion issue, but it is one that has to be considered...

There's also the issue of patient rights and doctor patient confidentiality. If the medical procedure for miscarriage and elective abortion are essentially the same, how would the gov enforce laws prohibiting abortion? Abortion is being performed in private physician offices these days.

Legal ramifications, nightmare: Hypothetically, if abortion were banned in the US, and if a women were to suffer a miscarriage (spontaneous abortion), what is to prevent some "suspicious" person from notifying law enforcement, and saying it was elective abortion (murder?)? What type of investigation follows? Forensic evidence?? Doctor, patient confidentiality?

It is a very complicated issue, on many levels. But the reality is that if abortion were banned in this country, as many would like to see, wealthier woman would still afford themselves "safe" procedures, and kids and poor women would be forced back to butcher shops.