OT: doodleboodle
So because I offer you alternative views, which I say is your choice to accept or not accept, I am an issuer of a "nutcase response" and am "so dogmatic". Please do not push me into those old tired boxes. Anyway, I have again responded but this time in a shorter manner, to outline where we disagree and actually agree.
"As usual the religious nutcase response, trying to sound as if their way is the way. I didn't get too far because I've heard it all before and it's useless to argue OR discuss anything with anyone (or any group) who are so dogmatic. However, I WILL adress the fairytale aspect and throw in a few other "possibles". The bible was written some time after the event(s). You might remember the old story of the message which was passed on by word of mouth during the trench warfare in 1914-18. That was the US war of 1917-18 when the entered WW1 after several generations of young european men had been killed. The message started off, "Co-ordinates for artillary are section 47 and section 63. Please start your bombardment at 0.400 hours." In just a few hours, the message reached the artillary commander after being passed along the line. It read, "Carol starting out for Birmingham at 4 o/clock in the afternoon. Please meet her." That was after a few hours. Then, of course, there's the fact that those writing down these fairytales believed in the christian "cult". Some slight embellishments, one might say, took place by those motivated to write down what they heard about 10th hand. Miracles? Walking on the water? How about some planks of wood 6" beneath the surface. Feeding bread and fish to the multitude? How about a big hold dug in the ground prior to the event and filled with fish and bread? Lazurus? How about Lazarus being in on the "game" and pretending to be dead only to "rise" when commanded. Ever heard of Yuri Geller or David Copperfield or Houdini?"
Response:
The bible presupposes and explains a realm of activity beyond the human experince and conscience. Your paragraph gives an interesting explaination of certain matters without this realm. However, I must say that my basis includes this realm so we agree to disagree.
"People die of hunger in Darfur. 50,000 children a week die of hunger world wide. Why? Because they don't worship the christan "God"? Young kids die of cancer all the time. Where's your God in all these situations and what do we see all the time on t.v or knocking on our doors trying to convert us? A bunch of over privileged "christians" telling us about the glory of Lord Jesus. B.S. Children molested by priests and their crimes "hidden" by the church fat cats. Go to Ireland and go to the best restaurants and watch the Priests (and the non-catholics are just as bad) feeding their fat faces with expensive steaks washed down with guiness stout. Watch the tv preachers appear with religious gowns which cost so much they would pay for medicine to treat a dying child. Take a look around you at the greed of your neighbors with their gas-guzzling SUV's, more concerned that gas might cost $4 a gallon than some poor kid who was unlucky enough to be born on a piece of real-estate which didn't have the same geographical advantages of europe or nrth America, lies dying with blow flies coming out of his mouth. Where's your "God" now?"
Response:
Your paragraph has excellantly outlined mankind in his rebellion against God and standing apart from God, within the God given freedom of choice. This fact cannot be overemphasized. However, just because he does not reveal himself as WE think he should that does not mean he is not there. We start to agree but then disagree.
"Praying to "the Lord" migh help your conscience but it's nothing but pure b.s. You live your life as best you can with good values. If you make good money (as I do) then you give what you can to those who were not as lucky as you. When you die (and that's the END) you might have passed some of those qualities onto your children to help move the "human condition" a little further ahead."
Response:
Again your paragraph leaves out any realm beyond the human experience and conscience. We will agree to disagree.
"The religious right, as far as I am concerned (and most europeans thankfully because the churches are empty) are no better than the radical muslims. Steeped in prejudice, following doctrine which is out of date and, if they had they way, would probably love to see people punished for not attending church."
Response:
Mankinds rebellion against God or mankinds nearness to God is not to be measured by our human standards. In other words, I will judge no other.
"Finally, drop it. In a few years, as soon as this incompetent religious right whack's job is over, we can get to some kind of normal thinking and not have the whacko religious right sticking their nutcase philosophy in our faces every ten minutes."
Response:
Again, the religious right issue surfaces. Why is that? Just what is "normal thinking"? And more importantly how will that lead persons to NOT do what you outlined above? I am not sure if we agree or not.
Conclusion: In the realm of spiritual matters your views of the world do not appear to include anything beyond human experience or explaination. This is not unusual and stems primarily out of the ages of reason and rationalism. These methods are not bad or wrong, they just tend to keep us 'man-centered'.
Thanks
Wayne
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