Replies to post #3914 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[SoxFan]

>The existence of matter proves a creator beyond the matter.

That's an interesting concept. Of course you're assuming that matter was created correct? Could not matter have always been here? Could not matter then be your god? So for convenience of discussion could not the "big bang" be the start of our long strange journey to our current existence?

>The existence of good, love, purpose, etc. within the human experience tell us something about the nature of that creator.

One could also interpret that the above tells us more about our human existence than an existence of a deity.

Your first premise that god exists can only be attributed to having faith. I don't see any other earthly explanation other than faith. If one does not have faith in a god then numbers 2-4 become non-issues correct?

[goodluck]

Jar,
<<Once premise 1 is accepted, I submit that it is really not that difficult to make progress quickly in determining the nature of God. We are not in the dark since a God who exists and who encompasses the "good" things we know will have left us plenty of clues to help us out.>>
I don't really want to get into a debate about this, but it has always startled me (at least in my adult, more reflective years) that mortal, fallible, generally silly and short-sighted beings such as humans can posit the existence of this ubiquitous, omniscient creature completely different from what we are and claim any "knowledge" of "him" (it, her, whatever) at all. It seems to me to be a kind of unconscious hybris. Especially when it happens so frequently that those claiming most loudly knowledge about this purported "being" invariably want something from you, either money or your "allegiance" or for you to behave in a certain way and not any other.