Replies to post #3719 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[Jar]

>...one who accepts God and one who doesn't. By your standard both are full of sin. Do you mean to tell me that one can accept Jesus as the Saviour...

Hi JB - I didn't mention anything about a savior or salvation yet. I'm trying to see if we can agree on the problem we are being "saved" from, before we talk about a way of salvation.

I had 3 premises. Do you accept all 3? I hope I didn't confuse you. "I" in the premises refers to someone who is in a pre-salvation state. That is, someone who has not "made their peace with God". It doesn't refer to me (or you) personally. Here they are for review (abbreviated):

First - God exists. I am must humbly submit to His commands.
Second - God is completely holy, good, clean, and pure.
Third - I am not holy and pure because I refuse to perfectly follow His commands. I have separated myself from God.

Here's the problem I see that follows from the premises (abbreviated)

Problem: How can I be restored to God's presence and God maintain His holy purity?

I think your objection is to the nature of the problem, and not to the premises - is that correct? If you agree with the 3 premises, do you see a problem that results? Is it different than the problem I see? If so, please state it as you see it.

If you don't agree with 1 or more of the premises, let's handle that first.

I understand your question about God judging yet Jesus forgiving, etc. and would like to handle that eventually. However, I'd like to first see if we can define humanity's basic problem, and look for a solution. I think that will clarify the nature of some of these other confusing issues.

Thanks.