Replies to post #158949 on Tornado Alley (PROG)

[matdan]

iknowaguy. BINGO!!! (spelled in English)

damn!

it sucks

it chupa (spelled in spainsh)

[fuagf]

iknowaguy, a couple of queries on those views .. one, there are many intelligent and well-
meaning people in congress and generalizing them as "idiots" doesn't feel helpful to me.

Also, your suggestion that citizens should be 'taught' how to vote, i'm not sure what you mean, surely it wouldn't be political indoctrination, so i guess you mean skills such as critical thinking which there is some evidence that many schools could do better which comes back to teacher training, teaching techniques, money best placed, curriculum, (it should be and i think is accomplished somewhat across subjects) so more money into structures of education.

Re voting, of course, there is the question of ..

Is mandatory voting a good idea? .. Background and context

There are currently 32 countries with compulsory voting around the world. They include Australia, Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Ecuador, Uruguay, Singapore, Cyprus, Greece, and others. Of these 32 countries, 12 aggressively enforce their mandatory voting laws with penalties of varying kinds, including nominal penalties and small fees of as low as $15 and the deprivation of government services or the freezing of one's bank account. Australia is considered particularly notably for its mandatory voting because it is a large "mature" democracy. Australians have been required to vote in federal elections since 1924, out of a concern that voter turnout had dipped below 60 percent. Polls regularly show 70 percent to 80 percent of Australians support mandatory voting, and voter turnout is above 90% (comparing very favorably to the United States where voter turnout hovers around 50% to 60%). The debate surrounds whether mandatory voting enhances a democracy, improves voter participation, increases voter awareness on key political issues, and reduces arguably wasteful campaign spending on such things as voter turnout. But, opponents wonder whether compulsory voting violates the "right" to vote, and thus to not vote? Finally, should voting be seen as a duty or merely a right? These and other arguments are outlined below.

.. so to the pros and cons .. Is mandatory voting a good idea? ..
http://debatepedia.idebate.org/en/index.php/Debate:_Compulsory_voting

There are many in Australia who view politicians in as you do .. see also ..

Intervention! Pat Robertson Calls GOP Base Too Extreme ..
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=68322359

which, lol, certainly brings to critical thinking around cutting the deficit, distribution
of wealth and the importance to demand in the economy of a healthy middle class.

.. anyway .. cheers!

[fuagf]

iknowaguy .. perceptions of Bush ..

Presidential scholars: Bush is the worst president of the modern era, bottom five of all time.
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=67306961 ..

and ..

The Worst President in History? .. One of America's leading historians assesses George W. Bush .. entree ..

Now, though, George W. Bush is in serious contention for the title of worst ever. In early 2004, an informal survey of 415 historians conducted by the nonpartisan History News Network found that eighty-one percent considered the Bush administration a "failure." Among those who called Bush a success, many gave the president high marks only for his ability to mobilize public support and get Congress to go along with what one historian called the administration's "pursuit of disastrous policies." In fact, roughly one in ten of those who called Bush a success was being facetious, rating him only as the best president since Bill Clinton -- a category in which Bush is the only contestant. .. much more .. http://www.skeptically.org/bw/id13.html

also ..

Rank and bile

G.I.'s speaking out, angry vets signing petitions, generals attacking
him. George Bush's once-rosy relationship with the military is turning sour.

[...]

But in recent months, the GOP and the Bush White House have suddenly faced a new, increasingly chilly reception from men and women in uniform. There are the growing ranks of retired generals who have turned Bush critics, like Gen. Anthony Zinni, former head of the U.S. Central Command and a special envoy to the Middle East. Zinni endorsed Bush in 2000, but recently during a particularly scathing public critique compared Iraq war strategy to a “brain fart” emitted from a Bush “policy wonk.”... http://www.salon.com/2003/10/02/military_12/

For mine, on Bush's watch, the most successful attack ever by a foreign enemy on American soil, and his reaction to it
leading to him becoming Bin Laden's top recruiter, his failure to get Bin Laden, the antipathy toward Americans
he created in the Muslim world, and last but surely not the least, his dismal job creation record, makes Bush
jnr., ala SHRUB, (though many little bushes are really nice) the worst president of the modern era.

[Zorax]

no training classes for the voting process
no classes in high school or college on how to vote
no adult school classes on how to vote
no on line gov training on how to vote
no notes on the frig, no flyers at your door

~!~ Even with taxpayer paid training it wouldn't do a thing. If the 'peoples' vote, the popular vote of the people meant anything in elections of presidents, how do you explain bush being elected not once but twice... or nixon, not once, but twice.

Maybe the electoral system has to go.