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Zeev Hed

12/28/02 10:40 PM

#1582 RE: jbennett53 #1576

No civilian "deserve" what they get in war, though unfortunately, that does not stop them from "getting it". War is ugly and should be only the last resort of diplomacy. Once unleashed, it has its own unintended consequences. If you view the conflict in Israel as war and make the Israeli civilian population "fair game" and thus their targeting a legal act, then, my friend, you are opening the gates to making the Palestinian civilian population fair and legal targets, certainly not something I would like to be deciding, since as you know, the Israeli have the means to bomb back to the stone age the whole west bank and Gaza, making Dresden and London "child play". They have not even done that on a minute scale, ask yourself why not? After all, in Vietnam, if a hamlet gave succor to few vietcongs, we naplamed the place to cinder. The Israeli are using the tactic of erasing the house were a know terrorist emanated from, very selectively, not the whole village, nor the city, just that one house, and that action is bringing ire in some sectors. An Israeli soldier, when swearing allegiance to "the flag", also must swear to keeping his "arms pure", namely to be used selectively, in self defense or against declared combatants and avoid at the risk of his own life as much as possible hurting civilians. Many Israeli soldiers have been put in jail when they violated that oath, whether intentionally, or during the heat of battle, or simply in error. A movement of "refusniks" (right now some 500 plus reservists that refuse to serve in the territories, for political, not moral reasons) would no be legal in our country, less so in the countries neighboring Israel. It thus ires me to no end when analogies are attempted between that situation and Europe of WWII.

Zeev

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brainlessone

12/28/02 10:55 PM

#1585 RE: jbennett53 #1576

if people wanted peace, why would it have signed Arafats death warrant? I am not disputing you at all, I have read the same. But doesnt it mean that all of Oslo was a sham?

And I also want to know if you think saddam is lying when he says he has no WMD. I think you will say yes. Why lie? He could get everything he wants our of the world the stopping of the blockade, free oil sales, uranium clean ups etc etc if he just did not do it.

What is the point to the lies?

signed

naive in new jersey

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Math Junkie

12/29/02 2:55 PM

#1651 RE: jbennett53 #1576

As I understand it, Dresden was primarily a cultural center, without much effect on the war effort. The main problem with bringing it up in the context of the current discussion is that it does not justify anything. Although there was no moral equivalence between sides in World War II, neither side had clean hands in their conduct of the war. The standards of behavior in war time have advanced since then, and those who draw comparisons to that time run the risk of bringing back the bad old days.

The Arabs had better hope and pray they don't succeed in convincing the world that preferring civilian targets is OK. The U.S. suffered grievous harm on 9/11/02, and Israel suffers grievous harm every week. Can you imagine the horrors that would result if the West were to use this as a justification for going back to the policies that allowed the firebombing of Dresden?