You are seriously misinformed...post a link showing the gov't will tell you what doc you can go to. Turn off Glenn Beck/FOX.
Now an insurance corp tells you what docs are in THEIR network - that won't change. What does change is more US citizens will have healthcare coverage and will not have to go to an ER for routine doc visits WHICH YOU PAY FOR NOW, WHETHER YOU REALIZE IT OR NOT...Other benefits will be college students can remain on their parents plan until they're 26yrs old, and the big one - no more pre-existing condition exclusions.
rollingrock .. for the umpteenth time to you over the years, Australia has what you will have one day, a decent universal healthcare system .. Canada has one, too .. in Canada i broke my femur, i chose the doctor .. a torn knee cartilage, i chose my doctor .. a fractured skull and deep gash in my wrist, a forest ranger found me unconscious in a ditch 4 miles away from the half-ton pickup i crashed on the Banff-Jasper highway in the Canadian Rockies, 8 hours after the accident, no i didn't choose my doctor (you wouldn't have either) .. i woke up 2 days later in a wonderful (note) private Catholic Hospital in Banff where they had the most magnificent hot-cross buns .. 5 days later back at work on the road construction gang .. in Australia i have had a broken wrist, two hernias, and surgery for prostate cancer .. in each case i chose my doctor .. there is a medical clinic 15 mins walk from where i live, which has about 6 doctors, i have over time chosen to see three different ones and for the last couple of years have chosen to see the same one whom i appreciated the most .. each time i visit it costs me zip, no i don't abuse it, few do .. i have private health insurance which costs me $2106/yr, basically for glasses and dental work, but it enabled me to have my latest hernia and my prostate surgery for free .. hospitals and private health insurance schemes have deals between them .. private health insurance thrives alongside the universal system in Australia.
rollingrock, the above is meant to be about you .. note the underlined .. some old ..
fuagf .. Friday, November 26, 2010 9:59:19 PM arizona, rotflmao, they would freak in Australia .. YIKES! .. universal healthcare with private healthcare insurance booming .. sure complaints and problems, but no political party would even hint at tearing it down .. i've said before it took years of conservative opposition with yelps of .. SOCIALISM!! .. too .. .. little more .. http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=57125997
rollingrock .. Sunday, March 08, 2009 5:39:34 PM socialism doesn't work. Never has and never will. I don't mind paying for MY health care but I don't want to pay yours. I pay MY mortage but I don't want to pay yours. If you want what I have get a job and work for it! http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/replies.aspx?msg=36134599
rollingrock .. Sunday, March 27, 2011 1:59:25 PM there are a lot of us that pay for our own heathcare. I work to do it. The problem is I don't want to pay for SOMEONE ELSE'S healthcare. And I don't want the government telling me what doctor I can go to. Do you? http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=61398883
rollingrock, seriously, both plants and animals grow, even thunderstorms change .. babies mostly just giggle, sleep or cry, children examine their views, teenagers examine and change .. most adults consider changing circumstances as the world changes, and adjust their views on many things .. you could consider change, too.
Hope you appreciate all those talking to you, i don't notice anyone running and it's good that you haven't repeated that recently .. no i haven't checked that one.
rollingrock, you get credit for being consitent, but what is the fun is being consistently misguided for you? .. it just doesn't make sense to continually repeat what is wrong .. OH! .. almost forgot .. this is a repeat i'm sure to you .. excerpt ..
Australia Medicare (Australia)
In Australia, Medibank — as it was then known — was introduced, by the Whitlam Labor government on 1 July 1975, through the Health Insurance Act 1973. The Australian Senate rejected the changes multiple times and they were passed only after a joint sitting after the 1974 double dissolution election. However, Medibank was supported by the subsequent Fraser Coalition (Australia) government and became a key feature of Australia’s public policy landscape. The exact structure of Medibank/Medicare, in terms of the size of the rebate to doctors and hospitals and the way it has administered, has varied over the years. The original Medibank program proposed a 1.35% levy (with low income exemptions) but these bills were rejected by the Senate, and so Medibank was funded from general taxation. In 1976, the Fraser Government introduced a 2.5% levy[NOTE: Fraser was Liberal, that's CONSERVATIVE here] and split Medibank in two: a universal scheme called Medibank Public and a government-owned private health insurance company, Medibank Private.
During the 1980s, Medibank Public was renamed Medicare by the Hawke Labor government, which also changed the funding model, to an income tax surcharge, known as the Medicare Levy, which was set at 1.5%, with exemptions for low income earners. The Howard Coalition [HOWARD LIBERAL, SO CONSERVATIVE, TOO] government introduced an additional levy of 1.0%, known as the Medicare Levy Surcharge, for those on high annual incomes ($70,000) and do not have adequate levels of private hospital coverage. This was part of an effort by the Coalition to encourage take-up of private health insurance. According to WHO, government funding covered 67.5% of Australia's health care expenditures in 2004; private sources covered the remaining 32.5% of expenditures. .. much more on universal healthcare chemes about the world .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#Australia
rollingrock, your 'i don't want to pay for others' is selfish .. most of your other in opposition to universal healthcare is fanciful, and silly .. which leads me to the other reply i'm about to give you .. please note in my 2nd reply what others do for Americans .. lolol .. it's cute ..
rollingrock, a fun story for you .. please read it, note the emphasis, particularly the colored bits .. think of your position on universal health schemes .. a couple of links inside .. http://members.chello.nl/m.jong9/map12/hansbrinker.html
Hans Brinker
Or: what does this legend have to do with Dutch folk narrative?
The oldest version of the supposedly Dutch story, known as the legend of Hans Brinker, is in English and goes like this:
The Hero of Haarlem
Many years ago, there lived in Haarlem, one of the principal cities of Holland, a sunny-haired boy of gentle disposition. His father was a sluicer, that is, a man whose business it was to open and close the sluices, or large oaken gates, that are placed at regular distances across the entrances of the canals, to regulate the amount of water that shall flow into them.
The sluicer raises the gates more or less according to the quantity of water required, and closes them carefully at night, in order to avoid all possible danger of an oversupply running into the canal, or the water would soon overflow it and inundate the surrounding country. As a great portion of Holland is lower than the level of the sea, the waters are kept from flooding the land only by means of strong dikes, or barriers, and by means of these sluices, which are often strained to the utmost by the pressure of the rising tides. Even the little children in Holland know that constant watchfulness is required to keep the rivers and ocean from overwhelming the country, and that a moment's neglect of the sluicer's duty may bring ruin and death to all.
[...]
One lovely autumn afternoon, when the boy was about eight years old, he obtained his parents' consent to carry some cakes to a blind man who lived out in the country, on the other side of the dike. The little fellow started on his errand with a light heart, and having spent an hour with his grateful old friend, he bade him farewell and started on his homeward walk.
Trudging stoutly along the canal, he noticed how the autumn rains had swollen the waters. Even while humming his careless, childish song, he thought of his father's brave old gates and felt glad of their strength, for, thought he, 'If they gave way, where would Father and Mother be? These pretty fields would all be covered with the angry waters - Father always calls them the angry waters. I suppose he thinks they are mad at him for keeping them out so long.' And with these thoughts just flitting across his brain, the little fellow stooped to pick the pretty flowers that grew along his way. Sometimes he stopped to throw some feathery seed ball in the air and watch it as it floated away; sometimes he listened to the stealthy rustling of a rabbit, speeding through the grass, but oftener he smiled as he recalled the happy light he had seen arise on the weary, listening face of his blind old friend.
[...]
Suddenly the boy looked around him in dismay. He had not noticed that the sun was setting. Now he saw that his long shadow on the grass had vanished. It was growing dark, he was still some distance from home, and in a lonely ravine, where even the blue flowers had turned to gray. He quickened his footsteps and, with a beating heart recalled many a nursery tale of children belated in dreary forests. Just as he was bracing himself for a run, he was startled by the sound of trickling water. Whence did it come? He looked up and saw a small hole in the dike through which a tiny stream was flowing. Any child in Holland will shudder at the thought of a leak in the dike! The boy understood the danger at a glance. That little hole, if the water were allowed to trickle through, would soon be a large one, and a terrible inundation would be the result.
Quick as a flash, he saw his duty. Throwing away his flowers, the boy clambered up the heights until he reached the hole. His chubby little finger was thrust in, almost before he knew it. The flowing was stopped! Ah! he thought, with a chuckle of boyish delight, the angry waters must stay back now! Haarlem shall not be drowned while I am here!
This was all very well at first, but the night was falling rapidly. Chill vapors filled the air. Our little hero began to tremble with cold and dread. He shouted loudly; he screamed, 'Come here! come here!' but no one came. The cold grew more intense, a numbness, commencing in the tired little finger, crept over his hand and arm, and soon his whole body was filled with pain. He shouted again, 'Will no one come? Mother! Mother!' Alas, his mother, good, practical soul, had already locked the doors and had fully resolved to scold him on the morrow for spending the night with blind Jansen without her permission. He tried to whistle. Perhaps some straggling boy might heed the signal, but his teeth chattered so, it was impossible. Then he called on God for help. And the answer came, through a holy resolution: 'I will stay here till morning.'
[...]
The midnight moon looked down upon that small, solitary form, sitting upon a stone, halfway up the dike. His head was bent but he was not asleep, for every now and then one restless hand rubbed feebly the outstretched arm that seemed fastened to the dike - and often the pale, tearful face turned quickly at some real or fancied sounds.
How can we know the sufferings of that long and fearful watch - what falterings of purpose, what childish terrors came over the boy as he thought of the warm little bed at home, of his parents, his brothers and sisters, then looked into the cold, dreary night! If he drew away that tiny finger, the angry waters, grown angrier still, would rush forth, and never stop until they had swept over the town. No, he would hold it there till daylight - if he lived! He was not very sure of living. What did this strange buzzing mean? And then the knives that seemed pricking and piercing him from head to foot? He was not certain now that he could draw his finger away, even if he wished to.
At daybreak a clergyman, returning from the bedside of a sick parishioner, thought he heard groans as he walked along on the top of the dike. Bending, he saw, far down on the side, a child apparently writhing with pain.
'In the name of wonder, boy,' he exclaimed, 'what are you doing there?'
'I am keeping the water from running out,' was the simple answer of the little hero. 'Tell them to come quick.'
It is needless to add that they did come quickly.
The legend of the brave Dutch boy - by others thought to be named Hans Brinker - who supposedly put his finger in the dyke to prevent a flood, was actually a literary invention by the American writer Mary Elizabeth Mapes Dodge (1831-1905), who was born in New York.
Mary Mapes Dodge
Hans Brinker was made famous in the USA by her children’s novel Hans Brinker or the Silver Skates, dating from 1865. In the chapter called ‘Friends in Need’ there is this story read out in class called 'The Hero of Haarlem'. This is the story - quoted above - of the heroic boy who saves the land from drowning by putting his finger in the dyke all night long. The adventure is situated near Haarlem, not yet in Spaarndam (both in the province of North-Holland). Actually, the hero in the story remains anonymous, but still the adventure is mostly attributed to Hans Brinker, Hansie Brinkers or Peter of Haarlem. (By the way, several of the names Mary Mapes Dodge invented perhaps look or sound Dutch for Americans, but they are not, and sometimes they look more like German names - Hans' sister for instance is called Gretel, like in the Grimm Brothers’ fairy tale).
After the story about the ‘Hero of Haarlem’ is read out in class, the chapter continues, and another character in the novel claims the story is based on facts and concludes:
True! Of course it is! [...] I have given you the story just as Mother told it to me, years ago. Why, there is not a child in Holland who does not know it. And [...] you may not think so, but that little boy represents the spirit of the whole country. Not a leak can show itself anywhere either in its politics, honor, or public safety, that a million fingers are not ready to stop it, at any cost.
The novel itself is about something completely different: Hans and his sister Gretel want to win silver skates in a skating race, so that they can use the money for their poor father, Raff Brinker, who lost his job after a fall from a scaffolding.
Modern edition of Hans Brinker or The Silver Skates
The art historian Annette Stott states that with Hans Brinker Mary Mapes Dodge created a work of pure fiction: "She had not visited Holland when she wrote it and relied on a variety of published sources about Dutch life, literature, and art for her information. She also mined the memories of a Dutch-born couple living in the United States." (Holland Mania, p. 240). Stott concludes her research on the book by saying: "The fanciful tale of a finger in the dike, which was repeated by other authors of juvenile literature, undoubtedly went some distance toward establishing in young American minds a belief in the courage, independence and trustworthiness of the Dutch" (Holland Mania, p. 241). Somehow, Mary Mapes Dodge tried to depict Holland as an ideal and idyllic nation of brave, righteous, godfearing farmfolk on wooden shoes.
It is said that 99% of the Americans know this so-called Dutch legend about the courageous 'Hans Brinker', mainly by reading the book at school, or hearing the tale from their parents. In the past, many American tourists left the Netherlands in disappointment, because none of the Dutch natives could point out the dyke where Hans Brinker saved the country. Fact is that the story of Hans Brinker was hardly present in the oral tradition or cultural awareness of the Netherlands, even though the book had been translated into Dutch as early as 1867 by P.J. Andriessen (De zilveren schaatsen, een schets uit het Noord-Hollandsche volksleven, illustrated by Charles Braakensieck). The book has been reprinted several times, always with the following addition by Andriessen to the Hans Brinker legend: "This sweet story is entirely the author's view."
Another fact is that there was absolutely no dyke to be shown to the tourists: no dyke, no boy with a finger in it, no Hans Brinker. In order to please the American tourists, the Dutch Bureau for Tourism decided to place a statue of Hans Brinker at Spaarndam in 1950, made by Grada Rueb. In 1954 the Dutch author Margreet Bruijn rewrote the old story as Een nieuw verhaal naar het oude boek van Mary Mapes Dodge (illustrated by Maarten Oortwijn). For the first time now, the adventure is situated in Spaarndam, obviously because of the statue. The inscription beneath the statue is in Dutch and English (American spelling) and it reads:
Opgedragen aan onze jeugd als een huldeblijk aan de knaap die het symbool werd van de eeuwigdurende strijd van Nederland tegen het water.
Dedicated to our youth, to honor the boy who symbolizes the perpetual struggle of Holland against the water.
The statue of the boy with the finger in the dyke at Spaarndam, also known as Hans Brinker
Note the emphasis on the word 'symbolizes', because the story is not true and the story is not a popular folktale in the Netherlands. Furthermore, the name Hans Brinker is missing (because it isn’t there in Mary Mapes Dodge’s novel either). Still, thanks to the statue the American tourists can visit the Dutch hero that never was...
Although it is suggested in the book that there exists an old Dutch folktale dealing with a boy sticking his finger in the dyke, it has never come down to us. No folktale older than the book can be found. Even after 1865, the tale can hardly be found in publications on Dutch legends - because the story was not told in oral tradition, and if it was, the collectors were probably not interested in 'fakelore' rather than 'folklore'. If Dutch folklorists bother to pay attention to the story, they never fail to point out the American origin. As far as I can see, just in one collection of Dutch folktales, Volksverhalen uit Noord- en Zuid-Holland (1980), a full version of the story is presented.
I have been collecting folktales myself since 1994, and I ask students to collect for me as well. Only once, in 1998, a student came back with a record of a briefly narrated Hans Brinker version, told by a 26-year old student. The female narrator from Goirle, North Brabant, did not know more about Hans than other Dutch people (if they know him at all). She literally told:
Yes, certainly I know the tale of Hansje Brinker... One day, Hansje walked along the dykes. The weather was bad: it kept on raining and raining. As he took a closer look at one of the dykes, he saw there was a hole in it. He ran to the village to call for help, but no one would believe him. Then he stuck his own finger into the hole... I believe it was his thumb... and so he prevented a disaster. According to me, the story is not as well known in the Netherlands as it is in America, but it's a funny tale for sure.
In Amsterdam Hans Brinker is better known as the name of a local, cheap youth hostel - for American backpackers.
members.chello.nl/m.jong9/map12/Image5.jpg
The Hans Brinker budget hotel in Amsterdam
What might be the reason why the Dutch are not that keen on the story? It cannot be that we do not import American tales; we do so on a large scale nowadays, for instance where urban legends are concerned. The main reason is probably that the legend of Hans Brinker is just a silly storywhich can only be seriously told in a country where people haven't got the faintest idea of what a dyke looks like or how it works. Our dykes are not stone dams or walls (or so) and one can't prevent a flood by putting a finger in the dyke. We are protected from the sea mainly by dunes - no use putting a finger in the sand when the water comes! Real dykes are used against rivers and lakes (our IJsselmeer was once a sea, though), and they mainly consist of clay. Again, when the water comes, the clay gets soaked up and the dykes cave in on a large scale - a finger in the dyke won't help a bit. Another reason why the story is not favoured, could be that the Dutch don't like heroes much; more about this further on.
The Dutch are aware that the Americans tell this story, but we hardly have taken over this story in the oral tradition, because - like I said - we consider it to be a silly tale. Shortly after the statue was erected at Spaarndam, a folklorist caught a local Dutchman poking fun at the tourist trap:
That boy over there near the sluice - it's the same thing as Little Red Riding Hood: it's all make-believe! Do you know the difference between Hansie Brinkers and Manneke Pis [= Little Peeing Boy, another statue] of Brussels? No? Well, Manneke Pis lets it all go, while Hansie holds it all up!
Outside Madurodam (at The Hague), a tourist attraction showing Holland in miniature, there is another statue of Hans Brinker. Nowadays, the Dutch recognise the image of the boy putting his finger in the dyke, thanks to the Americans, but most of us don’t know the whole story. Hans Brinker may be a ‘Dutch Icon’, but he is much more a hero abroad than in the Netherlands itself. .. much more .. http://members.chello.nl/m.jong9/map12/hansbrinker.html
there are a lot of us that pay for our own heathcare. I work to do it
I asked you before but you refused to answer. How much exactly do you pay for the privilege of staying alive? And why in the world doesn't your employer offer you health insurance?
Justice Widens Blue Cross Probe Across Several States
By THOMAS CATAN And AVERY JOHNSON MARCH 26, 2011
WASHINGTON—The U.S. Justice Department is widening a probe of Blue Cross Blue Shield health insurance plans in several states, examining whether they are effectively raising health-insurance premiums by striking agreements with hospitals that stifle competition from rival insurers.
Federal investigators, as well as some state attorneys general, have sent civil subpoenas to "Blue" health plans in Missouri, Ohio, Kansas, West Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and the District of Columbia, according to people familiar with the matter.
The investigation is looking at whether dominant health plans around the country are forcing hospitals to sign anticompetitive contracts that inhibit them in doing business with their rivals.
The Justice Department's investigation comes amid efforts by the administration of President Barack Obama to rein in rising costs as part of its sweeping health-care overhaul.
Republicans have said the Affordable Care Act, Mr. Obama's signature domestic policy achievement, will lead to higher insurance premiums. Showing that the administration can counter rising premiums by encouraging greater competition could help win support for the law from a skeptical public. The contractual provisions under scrutiny are known as "most-favored nation" clauses, which usually stipulate that hospitals must charge the insurers' competitors equal or higher prices for medical services.
Such clauses can simply be guarantees to get the best pricing available, but they can violate antitrust laws if used improperly by a dominant company to hobble competitors.
Blue plans tend to be state- or region-based and can have the market clout to strike such deals with hospitals. National plans, such as UnitedHealth Group Inc. and Aetna Inc., typically lack the concentration of a Blue plan in a given local market.
A Justice Department spokeswoman said: "The antitrust division is investigating the possibility of anticompetitive practices involving MFN clauses in various parts of the country."
WellPoint Inc., a for-profit insurer that runs the Blue plans in Ohio and Missouri, confirmed it had received civil investigative demands from state authorities. The company said its contracts merely helped ensure that it is not being disadvantaged.
Such clauses "are a prudent buying practice and produce real cost benefits and efficiencies for our members," a WellPoint spokeswoman said.
Last fall, the Justice Department filed suit against Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, accusing it of hobbling rivals through anticompetitive agreements with hospitals that, it said, likely raised health-care costs and insurance premiums for state residents.
The government's lawsuit accused Michigan's Blue Cross of inking agreements with about half the state's acute care hospitals, stipulating that they must charge its rivals equal or higher prices for health-care procedures. In some cases, the Justice Department suit alleged, the contracts required that hospitals charge Blue Cross's competitors up to 40% more.
In effect, the Justice Department alleged, Blue Cross allowed hospitals to raise their prices — as long as they raised them even more for its competitors.
"These kinds of anticompetitive MFNs affect health-care delivery in a very fundamental way," Christine Varney, head of the Justice Department's antitrust division, said in October. At the time, she promised to challenge "similar anti-competitive behavior anywhere else in the United States."
Michigan's Blue Cross has called the suit "flawed" and is fighting the charges in court. In December, that insurer defended its contracts, saying that the Justice Department failed to show that they caused economic harm.
The widening investigation suggests the Justice Department has found evidence that other insurers across the country are engaging in similar practices. At the same time, the Justice Department is also taking on the reverse situation, in which a dominant hospital uses its clout to stop insurers from dealing with competing hospitals.
Last month, it sued United Regional Health Care System of Wichita Falls, Texas, for allegedly using such contracts to maintain its monopoly for hospital services in the area, forcing patients to pay higher prices for services. The Justice Department said United Regional's in-patient rates were around 70 percent higher than those of its closest rival.
The hospital settled the case the same day, agreeing to stop entering into the agreements. It didn't admit any wrongdoing.
One expert said the government action on exclusionary contract provisions could help stimulate price competition. But he cautioned that it could have a limited impact on insurance premiums because new entrants might not have the scale to match the Blue plan's prices.
"Philosophically, MFN is a bad thing because it ensures the incumbent will get the best discounts and seals off the ability of others to compete," said Robert Laszewski, a consultant who runs Health Policy and Strategy Associates. "Practically, the dominant insurer will get less discounts and the difference would narrow but the Blue plan would still have a substantial price advantage."
CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield, a Blue plan that operates in Washington, D.C., Maryland and northern Virginia, confirmed it had received a civil investigative demand from Justice but declined to comment further. A spokesman for Blue Cross and Blue Shield of North Carolina declined to confirm whether or not the insurer had received a request and a spokeswoman for Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas declined to comment.
A representative for BlueCross BlueShield of South Carolina said the company has received an inquiry from Justice and is working with its counsel to respond, and a spokeswoman for Highmark Blue Cross Blue Shield of West Virginia said it has received both state and federal requests and is looking into them now.
The attorneys general of Missouri, Ohio and the District of Columbia, who also are investigating, declined to comment.
Write to Thomas Catan at thomas.catan@wsj.com and Avery Johnson at avery.johnson@WSJ.com
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