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Amaunet

04/06/05 8:11 PM

#3244 RE: otraque #3243

Absolutely confusing because outside of the horribly mismanaged invasion and occupation there is some kind of plan. There is even a chance the mismanagement is part of the plan. Go figure.

What we do know is that Bush has got his man, Abdel Mahdi, installed as vice president.

There is a certainty we will have permanent bases in Iraq.

Highly probably the US is arming and supporting militias in the south.

Very probable Iraq will be broken into three smaller countries.

I have always been partial to those who are silent, watchful thinkers.

Just speculating,

-Am
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Amaunet

04/06/05 8:28 PM

#3245 RE: otraque #3243

Bush went to the huge basilica as soon as he arrived in Italy and will be the first U.S. president to attend a pope's funeral on Friday.

Bush led a U.S. delegation including his wife, his father, former president George Bush, former president Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, her head covered in a black lace shawl.


We have seen another attempt at a reconciliation of sorts between the Catholics and the CRW. This is the 'Grand Game' there are recondite reasons for Bush going to the funeral.

This is potent imagery - a stanch CRW president paying homage to a Catholic pope. If Jeb Bush, who is Catholic, runs for president they need to somehow reconcile the CRW with Catholicism.


You previously posted:

A key element of the catholic far right evangelicals making a move on the K of C is this is leading to a major unification of 2 groups that thru history have been in major opposition to each other, protestant evangelicals have a long history of being quite anti-catholic---this wall is BREAKING DOWN, this is a drive to unite, i do believe.
Mel Gibson was the first to reveal this when he got immense support from the Protestant Far Right to make his movie The Passion a huge success.
Mel Gibson, without , i believe, intent; has done GRAVE DAMAGE.
Only Gibson knows if he is actually a Bush sympathizer, a CRW sympathizer; if he is, then the hell with him---but he has never so much as whispered a political view, or political intent.
But he definitely used the CRW to launch and breakout his movie.
#msg-4670922

My reply:

What you have posted could very well mean that Jeb is going for the presidency. No surprise.

However, when Jeb Bush, who is Catholic, runs for president there is a danger the CRW who is not that fond of Catholics could desert.

They need to reconcile the Catholics and the CRW.

The state can be instrumental in the evolution of religion as seen in #msg-3899810.

Now they decide to plan ahead!
#msg-4672061

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otraque

04/09/05 12:19 PM

#3262 RE: otraque #3243

I wrote very recently << One note i keep noting to myself--Sadr remains silent, watching, thinking--what's his game?>>
Sadr, who i remain believing to be the most pivotal man in Iraq such that if Sistani(given his very poor health) were to die, the U.S.would be confronted with a war with the Shi'ite world.
The incredible irony is the U.S. would have to ally with AlQueda(Zarqawi etc) in order crush a Shi'ite insurgency.
Sadr is RIGHTFULLY fiercely opposed to Al Queda and has a death sentence in place Zarqawi.
This underlines the vile evil obsceneness of this war.
Zarqawi(now OFFICIALLY annointed by Osama Bin Laden Al Queda's representative in Iraq) was a minor event living in the mountains of Kurdistan(with radical Islamist Kurds) on the Iran border before we invaded and created for him a HUGE OPPORTUNITY.
We used Zarqawi to get this war on and by doing so allowed him and his allies to spread a network stretching all the way into Syria.
<<Shi'ites Protest on Anniversary of Saddam's Fall

1 hour, 4 minutes ago Top Stories - Reuters


By Mussab al-Khairalla

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of followers of a rebel Shi'ite cleric marched in Baghdad on Saturday to denounce the U.S. presence in Iraq and demand a speedy trial of Saddam Hussein on the second anniversary of his overthrow.

Chanting "No, no to the occupiers,"
men loyal to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr streamed from the poor Shi'ite district of Sadr City to Firdos Square in central Baghdad where Saddam's statue was torn down two years ago, in a peaceful show of strength.


The square and side streets were quickly packed with crowds waving Iraqi flags and brandishing effigies of Saddam, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and President Bush.


"No America! No Saddam! Yes to Islam!" many chanted. One group of demonstrators burned an American flag.


"We want a stable Iraq and this will only happen through independence," said a statement from Sadr's office read out at the rally. "There will be no security and stability unless the occupiers leave... The occupiers must leave my country."



Iraqi security forces shut down central Baghdad ahead of the march and were keeping a tight watch. U.S. forces, around 135,000 of whom remain in Iraq, were out of sight. Most protesters were searched for weapons before reaching the square.


"I came from Sadr City to demand a timetable for the withdrawal of the occupation," said Abbas, a young, bearded protester sitting on the grass in the square. "Every Iraqi has a right to demand his freedom. The Americans wanted time and we gave them time, now we want to rule ourselves."


Followers of Sadr from the southern Shi'ite cities of Basra, Amara and Nassiriya traveled hundreds of miles to join the protest, showing the appeal the young cleric, who has led two uprisings against U.S.-led forces, can command.


By early evening, most protesters had dispersed. There were no reports of violence.


MASS TURNOUT


The protest was the largest since the Jan. 30 election and the first since a new government began forming.


U.S. forces last year pledged to arrest Sadr, a low-ranking cleric in his mid-30s, and destroy his Mehdi Army militia. But as part of a peace deal to end his uprising in August, he was not detained and he pledged to renounce violence.


Firdos Square has become a central rallying place for Iraqis since Saddam's overthrow two years ago. U.S. forces last year shut down the square, sealing it off with razor wire, to prevent people massing on the first anniversary.


Saturday's protest taps into the growing frustration among large swathes of the Iraqi population against the U.S. presence in the country. Armed insurgents continue to target U.S. soldiers and Iraqi security forces they regard as collaborators.


A U.S. soldier was killed in a roadside bomb blast north of Baghdad on Friday, raising to at least 1,543 the number of U.S. troops who have lost their lives in Iraq.


On Saturday, the bodies of 15 Iraqi soldiers were found in the lawless area just south of Baghdad, Iraqi police said. Police said the soldiers were in a truck that was stopped by insurgents the previous day. All the men had been shot.


In the northern city of Mosul, a suicide car bomber killed two policeman and a child, and wounded several, police said.





GOVERNMENT IN WORKS

Even many Iraqis who would not take up arms against the Americans still want U.S. and foreign troops, together numbering around 160,000, to leave. U.S. commanders say they will withdraw only once Iraqi forces are strong enough.

Scandals such as the abuse of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib and the deaths of Iraqi detainees in U.S. custody have exacerbated tensions.

There is also anger that more than two years since the war, Saddam and his senior lieutenants have still not been tried. Trials are expected to begin later this year, although Saddam is unlikely to be one of the first to appear in court.

"We want to try Saddam and his men ourselves with no foreign interference," said Baghdad protester Murtatha al-Yaqubi.

The demonstration came as efforts continued to complete a the formation of a government 10 weeks since the election.

A president, two vice presidents and a prime minister have been named, but the prime minister, Islamist Shi'ite leader Ibrahim al-Jaafari, was still working on his cabinet and has said it could take up to two weeks before it is finalized.

Iraqi officials have cautioned that the longer it takes to form a government the more it will play into the hands of insurgents, who will view authorities as weak and indecisive. (Additional reporting by Mariam Karouny)>>