Replies to post #2408 on Foreign Correspondence

[CoalTrain]

Thus the West must be pouring money into the Ukraine campaign like crazy. If they can’t get to the tv channels, I also believe that to be correct, then one of the places they will infiltrate is the college campuses.

After reading what Wofowitz said this whole thing sickens me. This is not about democracy. The Ukrainians are pawns just like the rest of us. They are to become part of Bush’s war machine.

One of the problems I see is that the Ukraine is so poor that many will be easily blinded by a slight improvement in the lifestyle which the West could easily arrange for a pittance. U.S. Churches have been trying to build market share in a big way. The few churches I went and checked out in Ukraine were all preaching Armageddon. Mainly via videotapes. They preach that America is great because they believe in god and god rewards them. Interestingly they do not mention the genocide of the American Indians that started the U.S. When I mentioned this it seemed to be cause for pause to many in the church. Unlike the followers of Jerry Falwell the religious Ukies I met were not blind but they are still helping build a system I have serious worries about. I was not invited back. Moscow has not treated Ukraine kindly historically and many parts of the western region were at one time part of western europe and many have family in Western Europe. Currently the Hungarians are considering giving out passports to all Hungarians in Ukraine, Slovakia, Romania and the F.R.Y. Already there is a quasi passport that Hungarians in the Ukraine get. Splitting the country into a East West civil war would not be that hard if sentiment is much of an indicator. If nothing else Wolfie and his thugs could try and arrange a situation that would take Russian troops away from somewhere else.


I agree with you they have not got a terrific choice on either side but looking at the whole picture the Ukrainians deserve better. There’s a lot more at play here.

A whole lot more at play. Historically Hungary has been the country caught in the middle of the big East West power struggles. I have been thinking that this time around that Ukraine would be the country caught in the middle. Looks like I will see how true that is very soon. In my brief travels though Ukraine I made a lot of interesting and talented friends. I lose objectivity at times about Ukraine. The situation really pisses me off. The Ukrainians do deserve better. At least they should have the right to make their own mistakes. Unfortunately when caught between washington and moscow that is an idealism that bears little fruit. I continue to support the street camp and trust neither East nor Western candidate.

[CoalTrain]

Why are We in Ukraine?
By Rep. Ron Paul
March 21, 2002

http://www.counterpunch.org/paulukraine.html

I strongly oppose H. Res. 339, a bill by the United States Congress which seeks to tell a sovereign nation how to hold its own elections. It seems the height of arrogance for us to sit here and lecture the people and government of Ukraine on what they should do and should not do in their own election process. One would have thought after our own election debacle in November 2000, that we would have learned how counterproductive and hypocritical it is to lecture other democratic countries on their electoral processes. How would members of this body - or any American - react if countries like Ukraine demanded that our elections here in the United States conform to their criteria? So I think we can guess how Ukrainians feel about this piece of legislation.

Ukraine has been the recipient of hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid from the United States. In fiscal year 2002 alone, Ukraine was provided $154 million. Yet after all this money - which we were told was to promote democracy - and more than ten years after the end of the Soviet Union, we are told in this legislation that Ukraine has made little if any progress in establishing a democratic political system.

Far from getting more involved in Ukraine's electoral process, which is where this legislation leads us, the United States is already much too involved in the Ukrainian elections. The U.S. government has sent some $4.7 million dollars to Ukraine for monitoring and assistance programs, including to train their electoral commission members and domestic monitoring organizations. There have been numerous reports of <U.S.-funded> non-governmental organizations in Ukraine being involved in pushing one or another political party. This makes it look like the United States is taking sides in the Ukrainian elections.

The legislation calls for the full access of Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) monitors to all aspects of the parliamentary elections, but that organization has time and time again, from Slovakia to Russia and elsewhere, shown itself to be unreliable and politically biased. Yet the United States continues to fund and participate in OSCE activities. As British writer John Laughland observed this week in The Guardian newspaper, "Western election monitoring has become the political equivalent of an Arthur Andersen audit. This supposedly technical process is now so corrupted by political bias that it would be better to abandon it. Only then will countries be able to elect their leaders freely.'' I think this is advice we would be wise to heed.

Other aspects of this bill are likewise troubling. This bill seeks, from thousands of miles away and without any of the facts, to demand that the Ukrainian government solve crimes within Ukraine that have absolutely nothing to do with the United States. No one knows what happened to journalist Heorhiy Gongadze or any of the alleged murdered Ukrainian journalists, yet by adding it into this ill-advised piece of legislation we are sitting here suggesting that the government has something to do with the alleged murders. This meddling into the Ukrainian judicial system is inappropriate and counter-productive.

We are legislators in the United States Congress. We are not in Ukraine. We have no right to interfere in the internal affairs of that country and no business telling them how to conduct their elections. A far better policy toward Ukraine would be to eliminate any U.S.-government imposed barrier to free trade between Americans and Ukrainians.

Ron Paul, M.D., represents the 14th Congressional District of Texas in the United States House of Representatives.

[CoalTrain]

Why are We in Ukraine?
By Rep. Ron Paul
March 21, 2002

I had forgotten who these folks were. Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) OPPS!

http://www.counterpunch.org/paulukraine.html

I strongly oppose H. Res. 339, a bill by the United States Congress which seeks to tell a sovereign nation how to hold its own elections. It seems the height of arrogance for us to sit here and lecture the people and government of Ukraine on what they should do and should not do in their own election process. One would have thought after our own election debacle in November 2000, that we would have learned how counterproductive and hypocritical it is to lecture other democratic countries on their electoral processes. How would members of this body - or any American - react if countries like Ukraine demanded that our elections here in the United States conform to their criteria? So I think we can guess how Ukrainians feel about this piece of legislation.

Ukraine has been the recipient of hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign aid from the United States. In fiscal year 2002 alone, Ukraine was provided $154 million. Yet after all this money - which we were told was to promote democracy - and more than ten years after the end of the Soviet Union, we are told in this legislation that Ukraine has made little if any progress in establishing a democratic political system.

Far from getting more involved in Ukraine's electoral process, which is where this legislation leads us, the United States is already much too involved in the Ukrainian elections. The U.S. government has sent some $4.7 million dollars to Ukraine for monitoring and assistance programs, including to train their electoral commission members and domestic monitoring organizations. There have been numerous reports of <U.S.-funded> non-governmental organizations in Ukraine being involved in pushing one or another political party. This makes it look like the United States is taking sides in the Ukrainian elections.

The legislation calls for the full access of Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) monitors to all aspects of the parliamentary elections, but that organization has time and time again, from Slovakia to Russia and elsewhere, shown itself to be unreliable and politically biased. Yet the United States continues to fund and participate in OSCE activities. As British writer John Laughland observed this week in The Guardian newspaper, "Western election monitoring has become the political equivalent of an Arthur Andersen audit. This supposedly technical process is now so corrupted by political bias that it would be better to abandon it. Only then will countries be able to elect their leaders freely.'' I think this is advice we would be wise to heed.

Other aspects of this bill are likewise troubling. This bill seeks, from thousands of miles away and without any of the facts, to demand that the Ukrainian government solve crimes within Ukraine that have absolutely nothing to do with the United States. No one knows what happened to journalist Heorhiy Gongadze or any of the alleged murdered Ukrainian journalists, yet by adding it into this ill-advised piece of legislation we are sitting here suggesting that the government has something to do with the alleged murders. This meddling into the Ukrainian judicial system is inappropriate and counter-productive.

We are legislators in the United States Congress. We are not in Ukraine. We have no right to interfere in the internal affairs of that country and no business telling them how to conduct their elections. A far better policy toward Ukraine would be to eliminate any U.S.-government imposed barrier to free trade between Americans and Ukrainians.

Ron Paul, M.D., represents the 14th Congressional District of Texas in the United States House of Representatives.