Replies to post #64694 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[Gulfbreeze]

Kerry should sign form 180....

[yayaa]

Bush signed form 180 Long time ago.Why hasn't Kerry?

[yayaa]

Ever flown a military fighter jet?

[yayaa]

President Bush received Honorable discharge

[yayaa]

Did you vote for Clinton Peg?

[hap0206]

peg -- here is how it was -- and this is why you lose once again -- facts are facts --
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George Bush joined the Guard for a SIX-year term. If you are drafted, you only have to serve TWO years. Bush probably did not need to pull strings to get into a jet fighter unit. [insert - he did not have to because of who he was #msg-3996376] Jets required a greater time commitment than normal Guard postings. Pilots from the unit that he joined were being sent to Vietnam. All the publications that have researched this have concluded that there is NO evidence that he used any influence to get into the Guard. The liberal publications will say that there is no evidence, but it is still suspicious. That is a good journalistic standard? So, do you get it, Bush joined a unit that at the time was serving in Vietnam.

The following is research from aerospaceweb.org ........

Nevertheless, we have established that the F-102 was serving in combat in Vietnam at the time Bush enlisted to become an F-102 pilot. In fact, pilots from the 147th FIG of the Texas ANG were routinely rotated to Vietnam for combat duty under a program called "Palace Alert" from 1968 to 1970. Palace Alert was an Air Force program that sent qualified F-102 pilots from the ANG to bases in Europe or southeast Asia for periods of three to six months for frontline duty.

Fred Bradley, a friend of Bush's who was also serving in the Texas ANG, reported that he and Bush inquired about participating in the Palace Alert program. However, the two were told by a superior, MAJ Maurice Udell, that they were not yet qualified since they were still in training and did not have the 500 hours of flight experience required. Furthermore, ANG veteran COL William Campenni, who was a fellow pilot in the 111th FIS at the time, told the Washington Times that Palace Alert was winding down and not accepting new applicants.

As he was completing training and being certified as a qualified F-102 pilot, Bush's squadron was a likely candidate to be rotated to Vietnam. However, the F-102 was built for a type of air combat that wasn't seen during that conflict, and the plane was withdrawn from southeast Asia in December 1969.

The F-102 was instead returned to its primary role of providing air defense for the United States. In addition, the mission of Ellington AFB, where Bush was stationed, was also changing from air defense alert to training all F-102 pilots in the US for Air National Guard duty. Lt. Bush remained in the ANG as a certified F-102 pilot who participated in frequent drills and alerts through April of 1972. ... By this time, the 147th Fighter Wing was also beginning to transition from the F-102 to the F-101F, an updated version of the F-101B used primarily for air defense patrols.

Furthermore, the war in Vietnam was nearing its end and the US was withdrawing its forces from the theater. Air Force personnel returning to the US created a glut of active-duty pilots, and there were not enough aircraft available to accommodate all of the qualified USAF and ANG pilots.

Since USAF personnel had priority for the billets available, many of the Air National Guard pilots whose enlistments were nearly complete requested early release. The ANG was eager to fulfill these requests because there was not enough time to retrain F-102 pilots to operate new aircraft before their enlistments were up anyway. Bush was one of those forced out by the transition, and he was honorably discharged as a first lieutenant in October 1973, eight months before his six-year enlistment was complete. Bush had approximately 600 flight hours by the time he completed his military service.

The folks at aerospaceweb concluded.........

While Bush did not see combat in Vietnam, it is also obvious he was not seeking a way to avoid the risk of being sent to Vietnam. At the time he was training to be an F102 pilot, ANG units and that aircraft type were based in Vietnam.

http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=9259

[nail bender]

You don't consider it important that the president of the US has ordered our sons/daughters into harm's way while in his military records is proof that his went MIA from his own military responsibility?Not very Important and it would bother me if he let a personal decision he made some 25 years ago affect hid decisions as President

You don't consider that to be a serious character flaw?
Nope anciant history


If there really is nothing wrong with GWB's Nat'l Guard service, why were great lengths taken to hide his complete record from you/me? Why did it take a law suit by the AP to force the complete military records of GWB to become public knowledge?
Like I said in my earlier post this subject is a complete waste of time

A leopard does not change it's spots. GWB was dishonest then, and GWB has been dishonest with the nation today.
Sorry don't now squat about leopards but people change, think of all the people you have known for 30 years have any of them not changed.
I got drunk and stole a car when I was 17 should I be labeled a car thief 25 years later?