Replies to post #418587 on Zeev's Turnips Talk Politics (ZTTP)

[wall_rus]

Of course....it's a catch-22. "God" gave us hormones, but tells us not to lust. We can't help but "sin"....which brings about the need for a "Saviour". The game is fixed.

I can't sell you a "cure-all" elixir 'till I've convinced you that you're sick......oldest con game around.

[mlsoft]

"One would have to know that his creation had built in failure and since God knows all things in advance and planted the temptation, inclusive of the snake that caused the ruckus (not to mention the woman who caused the man to be cursed), that man can claim entrapment."
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derbenski...

How can you apply the phrase "built in failure" to the creation of God?? What was "built in" was free will, and the only other choice would have been a race of robots, doing only what they were programmed to do -- what would the point be?? Neither I nor you would wish that on humanity.

God indeed knew from the beginning everything that would ever happen in all the Universe, from creation to consummation (the end of creation). There are no limits to the mind of God. In that, you are correct. But foreknowledge does not imply causation. Just because I know something is going to happen does not mean that I am in control of what happens. I know that the Lord willing, the sun will rise in the morning and it will be day. I will in no way cause that to happen, because it is controlled by God, using the relatively constant rotation of the earth (which in turn was caused by Him) to make it happen. I have no control over the event at all, but I do know that if the Lord is willing, it will happen.

God did not "plant the temptation". God, being perfect in every way, never tempts anyone to sin, and of course He did not tempt Adam and Eve. Scripture tells us that Satan did that, not God. Satan either was disguised as the snake, or he entered the snake and animated it -- Scripture does not tell us which is true, but it does tell us that it was Satan that was the driving force. Satan, not God. Eve chose to obey and believe Satan, not God, and she can blame no one but herself -- she had a choice to make and she made it. The fact that she chose unwisely only proves that she had a choice, not that she was "entrapped". We do not know Adam's thought process, but he also chose to disobey God and follow the lies of Satan. It was his choice, and his alone. He can blame no one but himself, and most certainly not God. It was not "entrapment", again, it was his own choice.

mlsoft